Theoretical Maximum FrankenPanel (tm) inputs (for Otraotaku)

[Tiger-Heli]

Orataku's recent posts here and here got me thinking about two things:  If you really wanted 60-some inputs per player, what are the best options, and if you wanted to build a FrankenPanel^TM , what are the maximum number of buttons you can support.

First off, 60-some inputs:  There are 4 practical ways to do this (the first two are keyboard only, the third is mixed, the last is Gampad only):

1)  I-PAC/4  (USB) and KeyWiz -  88 inputs.  It should be possible to leave the KeyWiz with default codesets, reprogram the I-PAC and support whatever you want.  You could also reprogram the KeyWiz and run a shortcut to its software at startup.

2)  I-PAC/4 (PS/2) and I-PAC/2 (USB) - 84 inputs.  The advantage here is both encoders use EEPROM, so you can program one, unplug it and program the other and plug them both in and play.  The disadvantage is that I am not sure what the I-PAC software would do if trying to program one from the command prompt (which one it would select), so this might not be the best choice.

3)  I-PAC/4 (PS/2) and GP-Wiz (USB) - 88 inputs.  56 keyboard inputs and 32 gamepad inputs.  You can use RBjoy or joytokey to use the GP-Wiz to send keycodes.

4)  Two, three, or four GP-Wiz's (USB) -  64, 96, or 128 inputs - The only reason for using four in your scenario would be that you can set up Player 4 to use Gamepad 4 buttons 1-7, rather than something like Gamepad 3 buttons 26-32.

Now for the fun stuff - maximum number of inputs for a FrankenPanel -

The current MAME limit is 360 inputs - I-PAC/4 (PS/2) and I-PAC/4 (USB) and Eight GP-Wiz's (USB).  = 104 Plus 256 inputs. Note:  The I-PAC/4's support 112 inputs, but a keyboard only has 107 keys and MAME won't recognize the Wake, Sleep, and Power Keys, AFAIK and only recognizes eight gamepads, AFAIK.  To keep the GP-Wiz's from swapping positions on re-boot they need to have unique identifiers or be plugged into separate motherboard controllers (two ports per controller, typically).  There are only four identifiers available, but you could plug 4 into a hub on one USB controller and another 4 into a hub on a different USB controller.

The theoretical non-MAME limit is 1384 inputs - I-PAC/4 (PS/2) and I-PAC/4 (USB) and fourty GP-Wiz's (USB)  = 104 Plus 1280 inputs.  Motherboards typically have 3 usb controllers and 7 PCI slots which could support USB expansion cards, so 10 controllers with four GP-Wiz's each.

NOTE:  The I-PAC/4 supports up to four macros per codeset, but I did not include these as they will be conflicting with used inputs in this setup.  If you want to add these in and get the full 112 keyboard input support, the max goes to 1392 inputs.

[Hoagie_one]

an lpt switch can give you 60 inputs also.

[Tiger-Heli]

an lpt switch can give you 60 inputs also.

Good point!

It doesn't change the max numbers b/c it is seen by the computer as a keyboard, so you can't get 60 ADDITIONAL inputs, but it could be used in place to the I-PAC/4 solutions at the beginning.

[tivogre]

Don't forget the Hagstrom KE-72.

It gives you 72 inputs on one encoder.

[Tiger-Heli]

Don't forget the Hagstrom KE-72.

It gives you 72 inputs on one encoder.

True, but it's $20 more than the 80-ish input options.

BTW, awesome job on the coin door!

[Hoagie_one]

an lpt switch can give you 60 inputs also.

Good point!

It doesn't change the max numbers b/c it is seen by the computer as a keyboard, so you can't get 60 ADDITIONAL inputs, but it could be used in place to the I-PAC/4 solutions at the beginning.

its seen as a gamepad.

[Tiger-Heli]

an lpt switch can give you 60 inputs also.

Good point!

It doesn't change the max numbers b/c it is seen by the computer as a keyboard, so you can't get 60 ADDITIONAL inputs, but it could be used in place to the I-PAC/4 solutions at the beginning.

its seen as a gamepad.

Directly?  I thought it was seen as a gamepad, but the driver sent the button presses as keyboard inputs.

What I mean is if I connect one and play a game in MAME and press a button, does MAME see Joystick1B1 or L Ctrl (converted from the driver)?

[Hoagie_one]

Joystick1B1

[Tiger-Heli]

Joystick1B1

Thanks!  (Screws up where I put it in my revised encoder page, though)!!!

[Hoagie_one]

sorry.

offer is still good if you want to borrow it and play with it.

[Tiger-Heli]

sorry.

offer is still good if you want to borrow it and play with it.

Thanks, I'll think some more about it.

[AlanS17]

There's not even enough space on a CP for all those inputs.

You could set up a jukebox and have a seperate button for every single song.

That's an expensive button budget!

[Tiger-Heli]

There's not even enough space on a CP for all those inputs.
You could set up a jukebox and have a seperate button for every single song.
That's an expensive button budget!

No doubt, it was just an exercise in the current state of the hardware and what was possible.

[Otraotaku]

Thanks again for the thread Heli!  ^.<
im pretty much Ready for Window shopping ...hehe

[2600]

If you are going to throw in the GP-Wiz, might as well throw in A-Pacs and an Opti-PAC so you get mouse buttons.

Also for theoretical maximum remember each USB controller supports 127 devices, subtract out a few hubs and that's a crap load of buttons.  You'll hit bandwidth constraints and CPU slowdowns before hitting the max number.

[paigeoliver]

You can also hack 4 gameport sidewinders to get 56 more inputs.

Then hack a serial game device (these use to be fairly common, I have a high end serial flightstick somewhere) to get those inputs.

[Tiger-Heli]

If you are going to throw in the GP-Wiz, might as well throw in A-Pacs and an Opti-PAC so you get mouse buttons.

A-PAC doesn't add mouse buttons, although it would be viewed as an independent gamepad, so you could add about 40 of them and double the number of inputs - 

Also for theoretical maximum remember each USB controller supports 127 devices, subtract out a few hubs and that's a crap load of buttons.  You'll hit bandwidth constraints and CPU slowdowns before hitting the max number.

It was pretty tongue-in-cheek, but I was trying to limit it to configurations that wouldn't allow the USB controllers to swap positions on re-boot.

[2600]

If you are going to throw in the GP-Wiz, might as well throw in A-Pacs and an Opti-PAC so you get mouse buttons.

A-PAC doesn't add mouse buttons, although it would be viewed as an independent gamepad, so you could add about 40 of them and double the number of inputs - 

Also for theoretical maximum remember each USB controller supports 127 devices, subtract out a few hubs and that's a crap load of buttons.  You'll hit bandwidth constraints and CPU slowdowns before hitting the max number.

It was pretty tongue-in-cheek, but I was trying to limit it to configurations that wouldn't allow the USB controllers to swap positions on re-boot.

Mouse buttons were in reference to Opti-Pac only.  Yeah, the controller swap would be an issue but I thought you were out of MAME's range so it didn't matter. 

With current motherboards you'd have 4 USB 1.1 controllers and 1 USB 2.0 controller.  That is going to be a lot of power bricks with all those devices.