I-Pac and Opti-Pac questions

[maxxonline]

I was about to order an I-PAC and an Opti-PAC from http://www.ultimarc.com/JShopServer/section.php?xSec=2
but I wanted to ask what benefites or troubles would I run into going with these

What I am looking at is this,
I-PAC 4 Interface. - 56-Input button/joystick switch interface. USB or PS/2.
(cable can be selected when adding to cart)

[Shape D.]

it doesn't really matter too much but if you have usb just go with that.

[markrvp]

I have an Ipac4 and it is hooked up USB.

[Tiger-Heli]

I do not have an Optipac, but my understanding is that connected USB, you are limited to 4 axes (2 trackballs or 1 trackball & 2 spinners), but only 2 axes are useable at a time.  In order to use all 8 axes (2 trackballs AND 4 spinners) where two are active at the same time you have to hook it up through the serial port and use MAME Analog+

Bad info - The opti-pac has two Ports, each one can handle a trackball and/or two spinners, the  unit will auto-switch between spinners/trackballs on the same port.  Two trackballs or 4 spinners can be active in either mode.  Two trackballs AND 4 spinners are not supported (all active at once).

In USB mode, the device works with recent MAME builds in 98SE or a fairly old build on Analog Plus in XP.

In serial mode, the device works with DOS mame with two different Mouse drivers.

(I think you can use two devices in serial mode with Analog Plus and XP, but can't think of a reason to.)

[maxxonline]

I do not have an Optipac, but my understanding is that connected USB, you are limited to 4 axes (2 trackballs or 1 trackball & 2 spinners), but only 2 axes are useable at a time.

[Lilwolf]

For the IPac4 you should use PS/2 unless you have a reason not too. 

In theory... it might not have the bandwidth for all inputs.  But it doesn't seem to really have an issue.

But ps2 do not have the same issues... tried and true...


For the optipac... I would go with USB.  But this is because the usb mouse standard is the standard these days.

[Tiger-Heli]

Okay, basically if you have USB you want to run it in USB mode at this point.

So in order to get the Opti-pac to work in USB connection I have to either use New MAME + Old 98SE or Old MAME build with Analog Plus software in winXP?  or... Run it in SERIAL connection with DOS MAME?

I should have clarified - to get both ports to be seen independently by MAME (CABAL, Marble Madness, etc). you have to do this.  Otherwise you can use any mode or build, but Windows will lump the devices together and both trackballs will control the cursor.

I guess the other option that you "think" would work I guess would be to run it in SERIAL connection with the single track ball with the Analog Plus software in XP and that would work just fine for the few games I want to play like marble madness and bowling right 

That's an option, but not what you want to do.

If you use 98SE, you can use the latest MAME (or older Analog Plus versions) for these games.

If you use XP, you want to use older Analog Plus versions for these games only.

[Fat_Trucker]

I have a 2 player panel and am running the Opti-Pac through USB.

Setup couldn't be any easier. Connect the trackball/spinner wiring to the screw terminals on the interface and plug the USB cable into your PC........and thats about it.
I'm using plain command line MAME under windows XP and haven't encountered any issues.

Dependent on how many optical devices you need you could also have a look at the mini-pac which can support a trackball/spinner. I would definitely go this route next time around to save space underneath my CP.

[maxxonline]

Ok so I should order the following -

I-PAC 4 Interface. - 56-Input button/joystick switch interface. USB or PS/2.
(cable can be selected when adding to cart)

[Shape D.]

order a tstick plus, they can ship it directly to me. thanx.

[krick]

Tiger-Heli:

I like you, I really do.

[Tiger-Heli]

Tiger-Heli:
I like you, I really do.  But for you to say I'm giving bad info is an unwarranted attack.

I like you also, that wasn't a personal assault.  I felt (and still do) that the information you provided is wrong.  I don't know whether you were misled by the Ultimarc website, or don't understand how the device works, but the information given was misleading at best, if not inaccurate.

Again, it wasn't a stab at you, it's just a pet peeve of mine when someone posts a reply that is inaccurate, and then it gets corrected, and the original poster ends up saying Person A told me this, but Person B told me the opposite.  If you notice, in recent threads, I've been editing my own posts to strike-thru info that I have posted that others have pointed out was incorrect.

Two trackballs or 4 spinners can be active in either mode.

I specifically said that 4 axes are active in USB mode, but only 2 can be used - This is autoswitching within the Optipac - Ultimarc website supports this.

And that is not correct.  You can hook a trackball to the Player 1 Trackball inputs and a second trackball to the Player 2 Trackball inputs and use both of them (in USB mode) (4-axis total).  What you can't do is hook a Trackball to the Player 1 Trackball inputs and a second trackball to the Player 1 Rotary inputs and use both of them at the same time.  That is where the auto-switching comes in.

Two trackballs AND 4 spinners are not supported (all active at once).

I specifically said in serial mode that only 4 axes can be used simultaneously.  That would be two trackballs OR 4 spinners, but not both.

Yes but the point is that only 4 axes can be used simultaneously in ANY mode (USB or Serial).

Have I done something to offend you that you need to say I'm giving bad advice?  I'm not trying to be king of the board.  This guy asked for advice and since you hadn't given it yet, I piped in.

I wasn't offended by you and accusing you of giving bad advice b/c of that.  I was offended by the bad advice and was pointing that out.  I'm not trying to be king of the board either (although it does feel good to help out other users who are just starting down the road I've been on for years).  And I don't have a problem with anyone piping in, as long as the info is accurate.

I own both Ultimarc and GGG products, so I'm not trying to push one over the other.

GGG didn't come into this thread.  I personally like the Opti-Pac for multiple optical controls.  The auto-switch is a great idea.  I think it's a little pricey compared to OSCAR's mouse hacks for a single trackball/spinner or modular controls, but otherwise I have no beef's with it.

I've got no reason to give bad advice.

Just because you didn't have a reason to give it doesn't mean that the advice wasn't bad.  Again, I was not personally offended by you, and I'm sorry if you were personally offended by my reply, but I'm sticking by the technical aspects of what I said.

[markrvp]

Tiger-Heli:
I like you, I really do.

[maxxonline]

Wow, thanks for all the help guys.

[Tiger-Heli]

Opti-PAC Interface. - Interface for 1 or 2-player trackball, spinner and other optical devices. Includes serial or USB cables (select on adding to cart).  Price: $39.00 *** and just hook this up using USB along with older DOS Analog Plus version software under my winXP?  This way I can run the Marble Madness and Bowling and Centipede games.

Ooops, completely missed this from your reply, luckily it doesn't affect you order.

You want the USB cables. You don't need Analog Plus for Bowling and Centipede (except if you wan't to make sure both trackballs (if you have two) aren't controlling the cursor).  You only need it for dual trackball/spinner games like Marble Madness or CABAL.  You can't run a DOS Analog Plus version (if there was one, not sure) under XP.  What you want is the last version of Analog Plus for XP that supports dual mice.  See http://www.urebelscum.speedhost.com/download.html

You might PM or contact u_rebelscum for version info - 0.74.2 (XP) will work.  Later versions had the mouse axis settings save not working.  Mouse settings save was fixed again in 0.83.2, but I'm not sure if this version works with multiple mice in XP.  Fortunately, it's only needed for dual trackball games, and they haven't changed much.

BTW, I am pretty sure I posted something incorrectly earlier.  I don't have an opti-pac to verify, but I don't think it will work as a split USB/serial interface.  I think if you plug the USB cable into port 1 both trackballs use USB and if you plug the Serial cable into port 1 Trackball 1 is serial and you have to use a second serial cable for Trackball 2.  I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so.

[krick]

I don't have an opti-pac to verify, but I don't think it will work as a split USB/serial interface.

[markrvp]

Now that I have eaten a nice plate of crow, let me ask a question.

In the software forum I have read several posts stating that you needed to use Windows XP in your cabinet, but it seems that Windows98 SE has some serious advantages for MAME.

[Hoopz]

I stand corrected and apologize for my outburst.

[krick]

Personally, I think Windows 98SE is currently the best choice for a MAME cabinet

positives:
dual mouse support in standard MAME
low hardware requirements
low memory usage
very inexpensive to purchase
highly configurable and customizable
easy to "strip down" to a lean configuration
99% of hardware has 98SE drivers

negatives:
no intel hyperthreading support
using more than 512M of memory is tricky
using more than 1GB is nearly impossible
limited to 137GB hard drives or less
ArcadeVGA drivers don't offer "virtual desktop" option on 98SE


My second choice is DOS, the big negative being the lack of USB support.

Note that you can enable true DOS mode on a Windows 98SE machine. See this page...
http://easymamecab.mameworld.net/html/msdossys.htm


In a marginally related note, anyone using Windows 98SE should install the
Unofficial Windows 98SE Service Pack...
http://exuberant.ms11.net/98sesp.html

[krick]

can you just connect two trackballs with Mouse Hacks in 98SE and use them both simultaneously?

I *think* they both need to be USB mice but I'm not 100% positive.

[Tiger-Heli]

Not sure who Hoopz is directing his comment to (if anyone specific), but I also admitted some mistakes and corrected them in this thread.

Agreed, though - Markrvp - nicely done.

Now that I have eaten a nice plate of crow, let me ask a question.

In the software forum I have read several posts stating that you needed to use Windows XP in your cabinet, but it seems that Windows98 SE has some serious advantages for MAME.  Tiger-Heli and Krick, can you say what the advantages are of one over the other?
It looks like my next cab should really use 98SE.

Krick can probably answer better than I can (and did while I was typing - we said the same things and reached different conclusions  ), but I wouldn't say 98SE has serious advantages over XP for MAME.  (BTW, I run 98SE and have limited familiarity with XP).

XP is generally more stable, has better general USB support, but is much more RAM and to a lesser extent processor intensive, and has the annoying product activation thing (which isn't too big a deal except for bootleg or multiple copies.)

98SE - basically the opposite of above - occasionally crashes or needs re-booting, cheaper and or more readily available, limited USB support.

Regarding RAM - 98SE is pretty stable with up to 512M of RAM, generally does worse beyond that.  (Supposedly the unofficial 98SE service Pack 2 will allow usage with more RAM).

XP will barely run with 128M of RAM, works with 256M, really wants 512M and anything additional is gravy, but will be utilized and increase performance.

Regarding software - Chankast and some newer Emu's will only work on XP and I am pretty sure Daphne works better on it.  However, you no longer have pure DOS, so I've heard some older games don't work on it, but I haven't really run into any (but you probably have to do some more extensive tweaking to make them work).  HowardC's Johnny only works on 2K (and presumably XP) and not 98SE for me.

Regarding MAME - (Assuming you tweak (www.blackviper.com) XP to get rid of the overhead and free up resources to MAME), the only advantages 98SE has over XP is for the handful (9 or 10) dual trackball games.  For these you have to use an older version of Analog Plus, at least until RawInput is added to AdvanceMAME (next revision?) or until it is added to the main MAME build, or u_rebel puts out a new Analog Plus or we see it added to BuddaMame or NoNAMEMame.  It was working in 0.74, so it can be done, it's just a question of when.

[Hoopz]

Not sure who Hoopz is directing his comment to (if anyone specific), but I also admitted some mistakes and corrected them in this thread.

Not you at all Tiger.  And nothing in this thread.  Sorry for the confusion.

[Tiger-Heli]

can you just connect two trackballs with Mouse Hacks in 98SE and use them both simultaneously?

I *think* they both need to be USB mice but I'm not 100% positive.

I *think* they both need to be USB mice in 98SE, but can be USB or PS/2 (or serial?) in XP with the older Analog Plus versions.

I ASSuME that by use them both simultaneously you are meaning with the first one as Player 1 and the Second one as Player 2 - (you can have them move the same cursor in any OS with any combination) - if so, then no, you can't just plug them in and start playing - you have to go into MAME and map Player 1 to Trackball 1 and Player 2 to Trackball 2, (and the system mouse if you have one may be Mouse 0 or 1, etc), but this is true of any OS with MAME.

[markrvp]

Thanks for the replies.  My project for the summer is to build a replica Pacman cocktail table.  the computer I'll use to run MAME is a PIII 500 MHZ with 512K ram. 

Soooo, it looks like 98SE would be my best bet for this one.  I don't plan to run any games made later than 1987 or so on it, mainly for Pacman, DonkeyKong, and other vertical classics from the early 80s.



Now, I have confused myself. 

To use 2 trackballs simultaneously in Windows 98SE for 2 player games like Marble Madness:
I understand that I can use an Optipac connected USB and a current regular MAME build?
Is this also true for 2 separate USB mice (with trackballs hacked in) for regular MAME, or do I have to use MAME Analog+ when not using the Optipac?

Is this clear, or did I confuse everybody as much as myself?

[krick]

To use 2 trackballs simultaneously in Windows 98SE for 2 player games like Marble Madness:
I understand that I can use an Optipac connected USB and a current regular MAME build?
Is this also true for 2 separate USB mice (with trackballs hacked in) for regular MAME, or do I have to use MAME Analog+ when not using the Optipac?

An Opti-PAC just shows up as 2 USB HID devices under windows 98SE so you can use two separate USB HID devices (hacked mice) with regular mame and have the same results.

[markrvp]

To use 2 trackballs simultaneously in Windows 98SE for 2 player games like Marble Madness:
I understand that I can use an Optipac connected USB and a current regular MAME build?
Is this also true for 2 separate USB mice (with trackballs hacked in) for regular MAME, or do I have to use MAME Analog+ when not using the Optipac?

An Opti-PAC just shows up as 2 USB HID devices under windows 98SE so you can use two separate USB HID devices (hacked mice) with regular mame and have the same results.

Krick:

Thanks for the info and your patience with me.

[Tiger-Heli]

>Thanks for the replies.  My project for the summer is to build a replica Pacman cocktail >table.  the computer I'll use to run MAME is a PIII 500 MHZ with 512K ram.

512M Ram or 512K?  if M, you're right on the dividing line.  I would use whichever OS was available (but you can illegally run the same copy of 98SE on multiple machines, so . . .)
 
>I don't plan to run any games made later than 1987 or so on it, mainly for Pacman, >DonkeyKong, and other vertical classics from the early 80s.

Use an older MAME to help the processor then (except for the dual trackball stuff).

>Is this clear, or did I confuse everybody as much as myself?

Like Krick said, regular MAME for an opti-pac or two trackballs.  Where the Opti-pac shines is for a spinner and a trackball on the same panel, as they are both available but not both active.

Another problem with dual mouse hacks over the Opti-PAC is they may swap positions on a re-boot, if both the same brand and plugged into the same mobo port.  I think this can be avoided by using different USB ports (two USB jacks on a port).

[markrvp]

>Thanks for the replies.

[millercentral]

BTW, the latest version of AdvanceMAME (0.96.0) supports multiple USB mice in XP.

[Steve Kaz]

I'm not sure that this is the right place for this, but i don't feel important enough to start my own thread on the subject.

Anyway, my UAII cab is almost built and i just acquired a PIII with Windows 98 for free to use as my machine.  I want to start thinking about the control panel now, so i can get everything running soon.

I like the Slikstick Quad and was thinking of ordering their blank control panel and then doing all the wiring myself.  The thing is, i don't have any experience with wiring (the most i've done is for my surround sound system and entertainment center at home, and that's a different animal). 

I figured i'd get the Happ mouse, two 360 optical joysticks for fighting games and two of the rotating 8 way sticks to play Ikari Warriors, a spinner, and some sort of 4 way joystick.  I'm assuming that i'll need both an IPAC and the Optipak or a Keywhiz.

Does that sound too ambitious for a first timer?  I really don't want to order everything and not be able to finish it or get it to work.

Thoughts?  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance

[markrvp]

I'm not sure that this is the right place for this, but i don't feel important enough to start my own thread on the subject.

Anyway, my UAII cab is almost built and i just acquired a PIII with Windows 98 for free to use as my machine.

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm not sure that this is the right place for this, but i don't feel important enough to start my own thread on the subject.

You would have gotten more coverage with your own thread - like Markrvp said, don't be shy - but I think we can get you going here.

I like the Slikstick Quad and was thinking of ordering their blank control panel and then doing all the wiring myself.

The un-drilled, or the pre-drilled panel?  IMNSHO, the pre-drilled is an okay option if you are sure you want their layout and you don't trust your own woodworking.  The un-drilled is a bit pricey in that you still have to layout and cut the holes yourself.  I think you could probably find a local BYOACer to help you out for a few beers pizzas and come out better in the end.

The thing is, i don't have any experience with wiring (the most i've done is for my surround sound system and entertainment center at home, and that's a different animal).

The wiring is actually one of the more straightforward parts of the project, but post again when you have more specific questions. 

I figured i'd get the Happ mouse, two 360 optical joysticks for fighting games and two of the rotating 8 way sticks to play Ikari Warriors, a spinner, and some sort of 4 way joystick.

You mean Happ Trackball.  I agree with Markrvp - I would ditch the 360's for the 49-ways (which eliminates the 4-way as well).  For the Ikari sticks - You have four options -

Fl0yd's rotary adapter for the Happ 49-way - nice in that it keeps everything on the same panel - recommend Druin's interface, but see below.

Happ Mechanical Rotaries -  Same as above, but with a Happ Super as the base stick instead of the 49-way.  Interface same as above.  These could be used as Player 3 and 4 sticks.

Happ Optical Rotaries - Similar to Caliber .50 sticks.  Use an optical spinner on the base of a Super joystick and interface to a mouse hack or Opti-pac.  Could be used as Player 3 and 4 sticks.

SNK LS-30's -  These are the original yellow-handled Ikari sticks.  Interface same as the first three above.  Recommend using these on a separate swappable panel as they won't play nearly as well as the other joysticks in non-rotary games.

I'm assuming that i'll need both an IPAC and the Optipak or a Keywhiz.

This is the first thing you've gotten slightly incorrect, or I might have just mis-read your comment - And you thought you couldn't start a new thread - j/k.

First off - the I-PAC or KeyWiz are keyboard encoders - think keyboard hack - for the joysticks and buttons.  The opti-pac is an optical interface - think dual mouse hack - for the trackballs, spinners, and optical rotary joysticks.  Main point is you don't need BOTH a I-PAC and KeyWiz.

If you take our advice and use the GP-Wiz49's, you have 46 inputs (separate from the joysticks) so you really don't need a KeyWiz or I-PAC.  Otherwise, you will want one of these.

Basically, I covered the Opti-pac pretty well above.  It's pricey if you are only going to have a single trackball and a single spinner.  OTOH, it's about the only way to have both permanently connected and available without both being active (without designing your own circuitry).

Does that sound too ambitious for a first timer?  I really don't want to order everything and not be able to finish it or get it to work.

Nah, the bigger danger is you'll get it into "test mode" and have so much fun playing games that it never gets completed.

[Tiger-Heli]

2. Consolidate by using 2 49-way joysticks instead of P360s.  If you add Floyd's new rotary adapter for these, then you can eliminate the additional rotary joysticks and the 4-way.  You would need two GP-Wiz 49s instead of a keyboard encoder if you go this route.  You still need the Druin Interface Board (in my opinion for easy hookup).  Your needs for the trackball and spinner remain the same.

Basically, I agree (on the Druin board), but I wanted to bring up one additional item (from the GP-Wiz49 rotary joystick thread):

Also, the GP-Wiz49 gives you 23 inputs per stick, so you could easily use 12 inputs for the rotary function, 1 for start, 1 for Coin, 1 for Pause/Esc (split between two interfaces), and have 8 left for buttons.  Wire it this way, use MAME Analog Plus, and you don't need Druin's board.

This would mainly be a cost saving measure.  It currently works for all rotary games EXCEPT Ikari (not sure why).  But it should give more accurate results without having to tweak the sensitivity for each game.

[Steve Kaz]

Thanks alot for your help guys.

Just so i know that i'm understanding everything (and i read through some threads to try and figure this out), if i buy the following items, i should be set to wire everything:

Druin Interface Board
Happ USB/Ps2 trackball with interface
Tornado Spinner
2 49 way joysticks
2 Flloyd's rotary adapter
2 GP-WIZ 49s
2 Happ Competition Joysticks
Miscellaneous Wiring and buttons and such

Is that right?

[Steve Kaz]

BTW, i also want to eventually add light guns to the whole thing, but that's down the road 

[markrvp]

I'm writing as I'm thinking.

2 GP-Wiz 49s give 46 more inputs

8 inputs:  2 competitions (player 3 & 4)
14 inputs:  7 buttons each player 1 & 2
8 inputs:  4 buttons each player 3 & 4
4 inputs:  Player 1 - 4 start
4 inputs:  Player 1 - 4 coin

38 total inputs for above gives you 8 more inputs for additional admin buttons if wanted/needed.

That should work perfectly.  The trackball, spinner, and encoder each pull 5 volts right through the USB or PS2 connection, so no additional power needed for the controls.  IIRC the Druin needs 5 volts off the PC power supply, but check that before taking my word for it (I haven't hooked mine up yet).

[tommy]

I think they need to make the screws on the ipac's alittle smaller on the next version.

I had a tough time finding something to get those darn screws open, damn near had to invent something.

Thats the only question mark in my mind on the pacs.

[Steve Kaz]

How would you run power to the Druin?

Since i'm using the Slikstick Quad as a base to start with, do you think all the extra buttons and such are overkill?

[markrvp]

I just checked and the Druin board does need 5 volts.  There are a couple of places you can get the 5v. 

1.)  Ask Randy T if you can do this, but there is a 5v out on the GP-WIZ 49 which supplies 5v to the 49way joystick PCB.  I would think you could also run another wire from the GP-Wiz 49 to the 5v input on the Druin, BUT MAKE SURE THIS IS OKAY WITH RANDY FIRST.

2.)  Your computer's power supply has 4 pin molex connectors which typically hook up to hard drives, CD-ROM drives, etc.  That connector has both 12v and 5v output.  You can get a pigtail cable from a computer parts store and connect a wire to the 5v output to run to your Druin board.

[krick]

I think they need to make the screws on the ipac's alittle smaller on the next version.

I had a tough time finding something to get those darn screws open, damn near had to invent something.

How about a small screwdriver.


I own a small Snap-On screwdriver that is exactly the right size.

[Major Rock Hardy]

Hi everyone...

I suppose I'm looking for an update on this topic...  don't know if I should start a new thread or what but we'll try this first... here goes:

I have some ideas for getting my first MAME system running:
I'd like to be able to run 2 trackballs for Marble Madness - which as far as I can glean from this thread - implies I need to use AdvanceMAME (w/ ?? OS) or standard MAME w/ win98SE or MAME Analog+ with WinXP?  It sounds like whatever I go with for MAME flavor and OS flavor - I should go with a USB HW solution for trackball interfacing (don't worry DOS is out of the question).

I would prefer Win2k over win98SE and quite a bit over winXP since I'd have to go buy it (I already have win2k and win98SE) and since win2k is much more stable IMO.  Maybe even Linux for stability - which brings me to my next question:

I'm thinking of using GGG's GP-Wiz49  Eco with 49 way sticks.  Will these work under linux?  Is there software/utils to use the DRS technology under linux?  I have read the ggg page and it seems to describe that switching modes is handled in hardware:

"The joystick mode can be selected at any time.  Just hold the Joystick Mode button and press the button associated with the desired mode of operation."

... but then it says:

"-  3 modes of operation.
  - Software Switching w/Automation Capabilities (application available for download)
  - Manual Switching via Button combos
  - Rotary Switch/Jumper mode"

the 2nd mode seems to jive with the first quote (i.e. HW switching) - but if I want to auto-switch it depending on what game I'm running - does that mean I have to run a Windows app?

also on the Linux topic - anyone successfully run 2 trackballs simultaneously (Marble Madness) in linux?   If so, what flavor of MAME was it and what version?

As far as an opti board goes... I'll probably either get an opti pac or hack some USB mice.  So my last question is:

if I have plenty of button inputs from getting the GPwiz's - are there any reasons to go with the opti-pac?  There was a post about on startup the mice hacks will sometimes get swapped - has this been resolved?

Thanks a bunch!

Major Rock Hardy
(xybots killer)

[krick]

I would prefer Win2k over win98SE and quite a bit over winXP since I'd have to go buy it (I already have win2k and win98SE) and since win2k is much more stable IMO.

From what I understand, the latest versions of AdvanceMAME have added CPNMouse support so *technically* you should be able to use dual mice in Windows 2000.

[Tiger-Heli]

I suppose I'm looking for an update on this topic...  don't know if I should start a new thread or what but we'll try this first... here goes:

You should have at least changed the title, since you are asking mainly about the GP-Wiz49's now . . .

I'd like to be able to run 2 trackballs for Marble Madness - which as far as I can glean from this thread - implies I need to use AdvanceMAME (w/ ?? OS) or standard MAME w/ win98SE or MAME Analog+ with WinXP?

Emulator version makes a difference as well.  See http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/main.htm#Optical_Interfaces under OS/Emulator considerations.

It sounds like whatever I go with for MAME flavor and OS flavor - I should go with a USB HW solution for trackball interfacing (don't worry DOS is out of the question).

Correct for dual trackballs and Win98SE only. . . (WinXP can use any combination - well maybe not with the older Analog Plus, where's UrebelScum

I would prefer Win2k over win98SE and quite a bit over winXP since I'd have to go buy it (I already have win2k and win98SE) and since win2k is much more stable IMO.  Maybe even Linux for stability - which brings me to my next question:

AFAIK, Win2K does not support the rawinput code required for multiple mice, so no-go . . .

I'm thinking of using GGG's GP-Wiz49  Eco with 49 way sticks.  Will these work under linux?  Is there software/utils to use the DRS technology under linux?  I have read the ggg page and it seems to describe that switching modes is handled in hardware:

Not sure about this, but I don't think there's a driver so the interfaces probably aren't recognized under Linux (yet . . .)  Switching under Windows can be handled under hardware or software.

the 2nd mode seems to jive with the first quote (i.e. HW switching) - but if I want to auto-switch it depending on what game I'm running - does that mean I have to run a Windows app?

Yes, two of them, not counting your frontend - see http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/set49mode/

also on the Linux topic - anyone successfully run 2 trackballs simultaneously (Marble Madness) in linux?   If so, what flavor of MAME was it and what version?

My guess would be yes and advance mame, but not sure which version (or even definitely sure of the answer.

if I have plenty of button inputs from getting the GPwiz's - are there any reasons to go with the opti-pac?

Yes, specifically, no way to hook a trackball to a GPWiz49.  Apples and Oranges - GPWiz49 equals gamepad hack, Opti-Pac equals mouse hack.

There was a post about on startup the mice hacks will sometimes get swapped - has this been resolved?

As Krick said . . .

[Tiger-Heli]

From what I understand, the latest versions of AdvanceMAME have added CPNMouse support so *technically* you should be able to use dual mice in Windows 2000.  However, I've never seen anyone actually using it so your mileage may vary.

The term I've generally heard bandied about was RawInput and that it won't work in Win2k, but I could be wrong . . .

As for Win98SE being less stable, consider how it will be used.  In a dedicated MAME system, you will most likely not have a lot of crap running in the tray, and you'll be only running one app at a time.  Plus, I doubt you'll leave it running for weeks at a time.

Agreed, I used Win98 for years . . .

When properly set up, a Win98SE system boots far faster, uses far less memory, and is way easier to customize (i.e. "gut") than Win2K or XP.

My experience has been the opposite, WinXP may use more memory, but uses it more consistently and frees it up faster, boots as fast or faster than 98SE when customized, and is is easier to customize and more forgiving if you mess up customizing it . . . but there are lots of other threads debating this.

If you go the 98SE route, be sure to check out the Unofficial Win98SE Service Pack.  I swear by it....   http://exuberant.ms11.net/98sesp.html

There's also a utility that will allow you to graft the good parts of WindowsME into 98SE (provided you have a legal copy of the ME install CD).  It's called 98SE2ME...
http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=46349

Agreed on both points . . .

One of the popular analog encoder boards (I forget which one) can be ordered with one of several USB ids.

The GP-Wiz49, GP-Wiz (), A-PAC, and AKI definitely support this, probably the SJC as well.

[krick]

From what I understand, the latest versions of AdvanceMAME have added CPNMouse support so *technically* you should be able to use dual mice in Windows 2000.  However, I've never seen anyone actually using it so your mileage may vary.

The term I've generally heard bandied about was RawInput and that it won't work in Win2k, but I could be wrong . . .

AdvanceMAME has traditional Win9x (direct input?) dual mouse support, Rawmouse, and CPNmouse support.

RawInput is XP only.  CPNMouse is totally unrelated but works with Windows 2000.  The drawback is that it requires special mouse drivers to make it work.

Some links...

http://cpnmouse.sourceforge.net/
http://www.jstookey.com/arcade/cpnmouse/

[Major Rock Hardy]

To Krick and Tiger-Heli :

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you !

I really appreciate the info and the speed of the responses!  Perhaps someday I can contribute like you guys do.  Hopefully I can put my 7 years in EE school to good use here 

So to summarize:
Windows 98SE (with appropriate patches) no problemo for regular MAME w/ 2 trackballs simultaneously - or AdvanceMAME in Linux or in Win2k with CPNMouse.

Upon further studying, (including reading the gp-wiz49 thread), it appears there is some interest in getting a linux interface to this device working and RandyT is willing to work with them (that is awesome), but as of yet nothing has come of if - that I can find.  So Windows it is for now.

one rephrasing of a question:

if I have plenty of button inputs from getting the GPwiz's - are there any reasons to go with the opti-pac?

Yes, specifically, no way to hook a trackball to a GPWiz49. Apples and Oranges - GPWiz49 equals gamepad hack, Opti-Pac equals mouse hack.

... oops - I should have clarified - no you are correct sir I may not hook up a trackball to gp-wiz49 !  But if I'm running 49 way sticks, and I go with one gp-wiz49 eco per stick (an obvious choice IMO) that means I will get 23 additional button inputs per gp-wiz49 (if I go w/ 4 sticks that's 92 buttons ) which is more than enough buttons - so with that in mind - it seems that the Opti pac is overkill with the additional buttons... also:

Tiger-Heli, I re-read the section on your controls page about the optical interfaces, as you suggested, and it seems that basically it comes down between Oscar's USB mouse i/f and the opti-pac.  As far as I can tell through googling/etc. - Oscar's stuff is unavailable.

So if I found a couple USB mice that had different USB IDs (suggestions?) to hack would that be a comparable substitution for the Oscar product?  Or, I suppose try plugging them in to different USB pairs like krick suggested.


Thanks again,
Rock

[Tiger-Heli]

... oops - I should have clarified - no you are correct sir I may not hook up a trackball to gp-wiz49 !  But if I'm running 49 way sticks, and I go with one gp-wiz49 eco per stick (an obvious choice IMO) that means I will get 23 additional button inputs per gp-wiz49 (if I go w/ 4 sticks that's 92 buttons ) which is more than enough buttons - so with that in mind - it seems that the Opti pac is overkill with the additional buttons... also:

No, I understand exactly what you meant about buttons and the GPWiz49.  I think you are confusing an I-PAC and an Opti-Pac.

The Opti-Pac only adds four buttons (left and right for each trackball/mouse input), so it's hardly overkill from a buttons standpoint.  Now whether it's overkill from a price/functionality standpoint you have to decide for yourself, although I cover this, both in the link above and at http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/main.htm#OSCAR_USB_Mouse_Interfaces_vs._Opti-PAC
BTW, see www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/ for the frames version of the page with a left-side index.

As far as I can tell through googling/etc. - Oscar's stuff is unavailable.

AFAIK, OSCAR closed his site temporarily b/c his day-job got busier.  You could try shooting him a PM or E-mail (might take him a while to answer), and if he still has any of the interfaces, I think he would be glad to help you out.

So if I found a couple USB mice that had different USB IDs (suggestions?) to hack would that be a comparable substitution for the Oscar product?

Sure, the only thing about the OSCAR product was the hard work was already done so you didn't have to solder.  See Note 49 from my comparison table:
http://www.mameworld.net/tigerheli/encoder/main.htm#49, where I have links to threads where Oscar explains how to hack them and others also explain this.  (OSCAR recommends Belkin or Kensington and dislikes Logitech or Microsoft, so I guess that's your suggestions.)

  Or, I suppose try plugging them in to different USB pairs like krick suggested.

Just two things in closing:

That is an either or option - i.e. you can either use mice from different manufacturers, or use the same mice plugged into different pairs.

And this only matters if the computer might be re-booted with both trackballs connected. . . (I.e. if you had a swappable control panel, you could plug the left trackball in first and the right one in second each time and MAME would never get confused, even if they went into the same hub.)