49 way questions...

[80sChild]

I've done a search on the 49 way from GGG, and all I come up with are huge threads with a lot of arguing on them.

I'm wanting to put together my first mame cabinet using these sticks, but am a bit confused and I was hoping some of you guys could help me out.

1. How many 49 way joysticks can the GP-WIZ 49 Max support and inputs in addition to the joys? I really can't tell from the info give on the GGG website..

2. How well does the 49 way work in each of its modes (mostly interested in 4/8 way)? I found some info on this, but hoping for a bit more since I'm sure more people have added to their panels..

3. The joystick connects using a floppy cable? Does the cable need to be sliced up?

4. How does the 49 way compare to a tstik plus in 4 way and 8 way mode?

I know some of these questions may seem elementary to most, but just picking up on this stuff now and not following along from the beg. means a lot of catching up! Sometimes the gaps of info that become obvious when building cabs for a long time gets lost in the mix...

[Hoagie_one]

I've done a search on the 49 way from GGG, and all I come up with are huge threads with a lot of arguing on them.

Pretty common these days it seems

1. How many 49 way joysticks can the GP-WIZ 49 Max support and inputs in addition to the joys? I really can't tell from the info give on the GGG website..

one 49-way per gp49.  you could have an extra normal controller but only one 49 way per gpwiz49

2. How well does the 49 way work in each of its modes (mostly interested in 4/8 way)? I found some info on this, but hoping for a bit more since I'm sure more people have added to their panels..

No direct experience, but i dont remember anyone complaining about it on any thread.

3. The joystick connects using a floppy cable? Does the cable need to be sliced up?

one side of flopy connects to 49-way, the other side will need to be connected to the gpwiz 49 in whatever manner you decided to buy.  If you get teh max version, the wires just screw down.  if you get teh eco version, you'll either have to solder ot crimp them to a 40 pin IDE cable that connects to teh gpwiz49

4. How does the 49 way compare to a tstik plus in 4 way and 8 way mode?

I believe this is a preference thing. Do you like the restriction and short throws of the t-stick?  the 49way plays rather well in this regard.  the only complaint being no actual restrictor.

I know some of these questions may seem elementary to most, but just picking up on this stuff now and not following along from the beg. means a lot of catching up! Sometimes the gaps of info that become obvious when building cabs for a long time gets lost in the mix...

I'm lost all teh time.

[80sChild]

Wow what can I say? You da man!

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions..

A GP Wiz 49 Max per 49 way makes it what I feel is an expensive option. It comes out to about 68 bucks per joy without shipping.  I don't know how to solder so the Eco version isn't much of an option for me...

Again thanks for all your help!

[Hoagie_one]

there is a solder free version of the eco where you use a 40 pin ide cable to connect it.  you still need to crimp wires though.

[80sChild]

In your opinion is not having to crimp worth $12 to you?  I'm planning for 2 joysticks...

[Hoagie_one]

i prefer screw downs...much simpler.  The eco version is cheaper because you ahve to do more work than the other versions

[markrvp]

Here is a link where you can see the GP-Wiz 49 wired up in my new control panel:
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,35938.msg320479.html#msg320479
The floppy cable is cut off at one end.  Those wires are stripped and then inserted in the screw-down terminals on the GP-WIZ 49.

As Hoagie said, one GP-Wiz 49 is needed for each 49-way stick.  However, in the control panel pictured in the link above, there is one 49-way and the second joystick is a Wico 8-Way leafswitch.  Both are connected to ONE GP-WIZ 49. 

The GP-Wiz 49 allows you to connect 23 additional inputs.  These can be either buttons or joystick switches. 

In my panel there is no additional keyboard encoder needed.  Let's look at pricing.  For a two-player panel with two 49-way sticks you would need:
     2 49-way joysticks = $50.00 through May 31st.
     2 GP-Wiz 49s = $70.00
     TOTAL PRICE = $125.00
This would give you a panel good to go with 2 joysticks that can be used for almost any game without having to change restrictors in a joystick (only a couple of mouse clicks or button pushes).

If you decided to go the two T-Stick Plus route for your panel it would cost:
     2 T-Stick Plus = $48.00
     GGG KeyWhiz or I-pac2 = $35-$39
     TOTAL PRICE = $87 or less
This would give you 2 joysticks that could be used 4 or 8 way and 20 additional inputs for buttons (8 are used by the two joysticks).

(BEFORE ANYONE POUNCES AND SAYS YOU CAN GET THE ENCODERS FOR $20 - I KNOW.  80s CHILD SAID HE DIDN'T WANT TO SOLDER, SO I HAVE LISTED THE SCREW-DOWN TERMINAL OPTIONS)

Now, the difference in feel of the 49-way joystick and the T-Stick Plus is as different as night and day.  The T-Stick is a VERY STIFF short throw and the 49-way is a light longer throw.  You do not have to move the 49-way all the way to the end of its throw to activate it though, so you can move it as little as you want to make your sprite move.

I personally own both sticks.  My preference is the 49-way.  I could never get used to the T-Stick Plus, but that is just me.  Many people love them.  One thing to consider is that if you like games such as Ikari Warriors there is a new kit available to add the mechanical rotary functionality to a 49-way.  I plan to get one for my new control panel. 

This probably doesn't clear anything up for you, but I think the bottom line is what feel do you like in a joystick, because your two options are VERY DIFFERENT.

[80sChild]

Wow! Thanks for the great responses...you guys have filled in some blanks for me.

That picture is great mark...very helpful. I think I can easily crimp...it's just the PITA of having to go to radio shack to buy the wire and the QD's, and then actually do some crimping.

I think I'm going screw down...screw it...hehe

Hoagie,

Thanks for the help...I saw in another thread you used Tstik pluses...have they grown on you? I sometimes feel that the tstik plus gets some bad comments from people on the board who have a very specific taste for what their joystick should feel like...

Mark,

I really don't have a preference for a joystick since this is my first arcade build... I looked at the "throw" on the Tstik (retroblast review) and it does seem very tight or short. I wish they'd do a review on the 49 way..

The games I used to play not that long ago because after all I am an 80's child all had restrictor plates...which I felt was part of the arcade experience.  I'm trying to avoid having my cab feel like an xbox/psone controller... so that might be a point for the tstik plus. Does the 49 way compare to the old psone analog joysticks?

I'm thinking of making a primarily horizontal cocktail table, and want to start with a fighter panel, and maybe stick a 2.25'' trackball in between p1 and 2.  In the future I might expand to 3 and 4 players...

Since you have both which sticks do you prefer in 8/4 way mode since that is primarily what I will use the sticks in? I know its subjective but opinions are always helpful nonetheless...

The tough part about joysticks is that everyone has their own preference...

You guys have been such a great help...you have no idea! Thanks again!

[markrvp]

I don't like the T-Stick Plus at all.  I even tried changing the switches out, and I still couldn't get used to it.  On the 49-way, if you use 3/4" wood or MDF for the CP top, make the hole for the shaft 1-1/4".  That will "in-effect" give you some mechanical restriction on the throw, but it will not affect the gameplay.  If it were me, I'd go 49-way, but there are just as many people that would tell you to go with the T-Stick Plus.

I played a lot of Pacman, Donkey Kong, and other classics of the 80s too, and I don't remember any of those games feeling like the T-Stik Plus.

I never used the PS One controllers, so I can't compare.

[Hoagie_one]

im using teh t-sticks because thats what I have.  My next cab will have two 49-ways.

[80sChild]

Looks like I'll be going with the 49 ways... haven't heard anyone unhappy with them as opposed to what I hear from tstik owners.

Like I said I'll probably turn the cocktail into 4 player so I could make players 3&4 tstiks, and still use the GP-WIZ49.  The same wouldn't be true if I started off with tstiks...

[Thurman]

I've got to jump in with a few questions also...... I'm planning on using 2 49-ways and a Happs 3" trackball on my control panel, plus I'd like to add a spinner sometime in the future.  So it looks like I'll have to buy 2 GP-Wiz 49s for the 2 controllers.  But I don't think that these will be able to handle the Happs trackball, correct?  Is there a better solution to the control panel I'm trying to build?

[Hoagie_one]

you could get the usb mouse hack from oscarcontrols.com for the trackball

[markrvp]

I've got to jump in with a few questions also...... I'm planning on using 2 49-ways and a Happs 3" trackball on my control panel, plus I'd like to add a spinner sometime in the future.

[Tiger-Heli]

Look at the picture below.

No picture!

You would also need another mousehack for the spinner.  OR, you can get one Optipac from Ultimarc and plug both your trackball and spinner into that.

Or you can use one mouse hack and wire both the spinner and trackball to it with a DPDT switch as shown here.

Or I think you can wire both spinner and trackball to the same hack without the switch but they will both be active and will "fight" over the cursor.  (Confirm this with OSCAR, though, as I might remember a reason this doesn't work).

* Tiger-Heli thanks popcorrin for correcting my error below!

And that would be everything you need (besides wire) to interface the joysticks, trackball, spinner, and up to 56 buttons in your cabinet.

Errrrrm, 23x2 = 46 last I checked, plus the 4 butttons on the Opti-pac or up to six on the two OSCAR hacks equals 50 or 52 buttons, not 56.

Good info otherwise, markrvp!!!

[Popcorrin]

Or I think you can wire both spinner and trackball to the same hack without the switch but they will both be active and will "fight" over the cursor.

[80sChild]

The more I think about this...

GP Wiz 49 kinda sucks for a cocktail... where you have to have the least amount of buttons possible. You'd have to have a shazaam button..a mode button..I don't really like the other ways of switching modes. A start button, and a credit button...cost is an issue and no coin door just yet.

That would mean a lot of buttons on the underside of the control panels, which could get to be a pain. It's kinda hard to argue with the ultimarc products if youre building a cocktail..decisions...decisions.

[Kremmit]

You don't have to have all those buttons.  If you don't want a lot of buttons, then you won't ever need the shifted inputs, so you don't need a Shazaam button either.

As for mode switching, the GP-49 now supports mode switching in software, so that won't require any extra buttons.

Oh, wait, I see you said you don't like the other methods of switching- I assume that means software switching as well as the rotary switch solution.

In that case, what Ultimarc products are you referring to?  Ultimarc has no 49-way solution, and if you mean regular keyboard encoders or gamepad encoders, GGG has those, too.

Maybe you mean the T-Stick+.  If you don't mind the very different feel of the T, then it gets you the 8-way and 4-way modes, plus does a good job at simulating the rotated 4-way for Qbert and Congo Bongo, but it won't handle any of the 49-way or analog games.  Also won't handle the rotary games, which can be tackled by adding Floyd10's rotary mod and a Druin's board to a 49-way setup.  Up to you whether any of that matters to you or not.

[80sChild]

Ok just looked up the rotary switch function and I think its really cool...

How does the connection at the rotary from the GP WIZ 49 go? In other words from where on the GP Wiz to where on the rotary do the wires go..

When modes are switched does it show up on screen? How do you know which mode you are presently in...

[fl0yd]

I've never wired one this way, but I'd guess it goes like this:

Common ground on the rotary goes to the ground on GP-Wiz
A wire from each of the 8 positions on the rotary go to the 8 DRS mode connectors on the GP-Wiz.
A button is still needed to "set" the mode, and the mode would be chosen by which place the rotary switch was in. (Thanks Randy)

According to Randy, you can just ground the joymode pin eliminating the need for a button.

So for example:

If you had the rotary rotated to 4 way and you pressed the change mode button it would then be a 4-way stick.

[RandyT]

Almost

You won't need a button to set the mode.  It will switch with just the rotary.

Also, don't forget to run a wire from the "JoyMode" input to ground and leave it there.  Then you'll need to cycle power or re-insert your USB connector so it goes into the proper mode.

To know what mode you are in, you have to do what every other rotary selector does and that is to have an indicator knob and some kind of legend (mode icons, etc) printed around it on your CP, or wherever you intend to mount the switch,  so that when it is pointed at a mode, that's the mode it's in.

RandyT

[fl0yd]

Using a rotary for a coctail would be a pretty good solution then, the only thing you'd need is one additional hole for the rotary switch itself. 

It could be a CP mount, or cleverly hidden inside, or even on the coin door.

[80sChild]

Randy,

You won't need a button to set the mode. It will switch with just the rotary.

Ok that's what I thought.

Can you still use a shazaam button if you are using the rotary switch method? I know this was discussed in another thread, but the way they explained it confused me.

[80sChild]

Using a rotary for a coctail would be a pretty good solution then, the only thing you'd need is one additional hole for the rotary switch itself.

[Tiger-Heli]

Can you still use a shazaam button if you are using the rotary switch method? I know this was discussed in another thread, but the way they explained it confused me.

No and you drop down to 15 buttons instead of 23.  You could still do the equivalent of the Shazaaam! button by setting button combo's in MAME, though.

[Kremmit]

drop down to 15 buttons instead of 23. 

Of course, that's 15 buttons per GP-Wiz49, and it doesn't sound like you'll be needing more than 30 buttons on your coctail cab, so that's no problem.

[Tiger-Heli]

I think the switching method from the front end is really neat, so I'll have to keep a close eye on that.

I thought you said earlier you didn't like the software mode switching feature.  If you use that you do get an on-screen confirmation of mode setting.

[80sChild]

Tiger,

Guess I said that because I didn't know what I was talking about  .

I looked it up on the board and the info I found looked promising. It would be neat to be able to switch modes automatically without the use of a switch or button.  It would make things much easier when random people decide to play your cab...

I don't have a cab yet, but I imagine it being a pain to always explain what to use and how to use it.

My cab won't have a trackball so a software method without the use of a trackball is really my  only option.

-80schild

[Tiger-Heli]

Tiger,

Guess I said that because I didn't know what I was talking about  .

I looked it up on the board and the info I found looked promising. It would be neat to be able to switch modes automatically without the use of a switch or button.  It would make things much easier when random people decide to play your cab...

I don't have a cab yet, but I imagine it being a pain to always explain what to use and how to use it.

My cab won't have a trackball so a software method without the use of a trackball is really my  only option.

-80schild

A trackball wouldn't help with mode switching anyway.

The software switching is new - and will take a while to get set-up and the bugs worked out, but I'm really excited about it.

Two points - there are a lot of times that I know what mode a game uses (Tiger-Heli is 8-way), but I was just playing PacMan and forget to change the Prodigy lever over until I notice the stick not playing well.  That can't happen with software switching.

Also-sometimes I will just let the frontend pick a random game that I have rarely played.  I could scroll over in my FE and see that is 4-way and set the Prodigy to the correct mode and play, but with software switching, I just start the game and a little icon pops up to tell me I am in 4-way mode and the stick is already set.

Sweet!!!

[RandyT]

A trackball wouldn't help with mode switching anyway.

Unless you want to switch manually through the software GUI.  Then you need a either a mouse or a trackball.

RandyT