Crusinusa - Too slow on my PC

[rescue161]

How fast of a computer do you need for this game?

I'm running a P4 3.2GHz with 512MB of RAM.  Is my computer too slow?  The game lags BAD.  I can't even TRY to play it.  When you hit "5" for a coin, it takes it about 2 seconds to finish "Cha-chinging" - THAT'S how slow it's running.

Any suggestions?

[SirPeale]

Time machine.  Fast forward to the future, when we have 10GHz machines capable of running it full-frame.

[tommy]

I asked this question before also, thats how it is for everyone, nothing you can do as of now. Daytona USA is the same and a few others.

[spiffyshoes]

Try the Nintendo 64 version.  It runs at a good frame rate with project64 but of course it isn't as good as the arcade version.

[Joystick Jerk]

What's the deal with the 3D games running slowly anyways? I realize MAME emulates everything in software, but how come no one has created some sort of Direct3D or OpenGL wrapper that will translate the 3D arcade signals into something that todays 3D cards can understand?

MAME was created by some damn smart guys, but it seems like no one is even trying to get actual 3D acceleration working.

[Flinkly]

cause mame isn't for people to play games, it's to document them.  sure someone could make these run beter with a bunch of programming, but that's not the point.  the point is to archive what hardware and software these games use.  being able to play it is a by-product.  granted, most people use mame to play, and not to archive, but that doesn't change the point.

now i know some people see this differently, but i'm not looking to argue, just trying to school the noob.

[rescue161]

cause mame isn't for people to play games, it's to document them.

[Joystick Jerk]

being able to play it is a by-product.  granted, most people use mame to play, and not to archive, but that doesn't change the point.

Well, I think that does change the point. Sure, maybe the original creators of MAME aren't worried about the actual quality of gameplay, and the 3D rendering speed, but you think one of the thousands of people who use it for playing games would be. I'm  sure there are more than a few programming geniuses that use MAME all the time, and yet I'm not aware of any projects to bring 3D acceleration to MAME.

Which is odd, in a sense, because just about every proprietary rendering scheme ever made on the PC has had some sort program released for to make it compatible for todays 3D standards. Just look at all the effort in creating usable Glide wrappers for all the old Glide-only games of the late 90's.

[Flinkly]

um...now comes the legal aspects of games.  the reason why mame is document only is because otherwise this would all be so illegal that mame wouldn't exist.  that is why no one codes up 3d wrappers for mame.  mame is already on thin ice because everyone uses it to play games anyways, but this would heat those skates up real fast and mame would fall to oblivion.

also, this isn't made for profit, so no one cares enough to create a wrapper for it.  yeah, people make wrappers for legal products so that we can continue to use them, but back to the point, mame isn't for playing, and also isn't legal to play.  i hope this all makes sense to you. 

[JB]

um...now comes the legal aspects of games.  the reason why mame is document only is because otherwise this would all be so illegal that mame wouldn't exist. 

Not true.
US copyright law allows for running software on non-native platforms.

Emulation is 100% legal, provided you own the game you're emulating and make your own ROM images(if necessary).

See Sony VS Bleem. Any one of them.

that is why no one codes up 3d wrappers for mame.  mame is already on thin ice because everyone uses it to play games anyways, but this would heat those skates up real fast and mame would fall to oblivion.

The official reason is that wrappers are inaccurate emulation of the hardware because PC video cards don't feature identical behavioral characteristics to the arcade hardware they are being mapped to, which causes less-than-perfect video emulation. 


This is also, undoubtedly, why they have so many FUBAR input hacks, like replacing an optical encoder wheel with a pair of potentiometers(720).

also, this isn't made for profit, so no one cares enough to create a wrapper for it.  yeah, people make wrappers for legal products so that we can continue to use them,

Playstation emulation. Enough said. 

but back to the point, mame isn't for playing, and also isn't legal to play.  i hope this all makes sense to you. 

MAME IS legal to play, provided you actually own the games, or are using public-domain software. Yes, that's a quite restrictive clause given the typical user, but it bears mentioning.

And input hacks speak volumes about whether or not it's for playing.

[CheffoJeffo]

Why do we have to have the same bloody discussion with the same points made every few weeks when someone realizes that their favourite game doesn't play nicely under MAME ?

Invariably, someone asks about Game X.

Then someone comments about how MAME should use Feature Y to make games like Game X more playable.

Then someone comments about legal vs illegal ROMS. Then somebody talks of Bleem.

Then someone suggests that the unpaying, unwashed masses should just accept it.

Then someone says that we shouldn't blindly worship the MAMEDevs. Then someone says "do it yourself". 

Then someone says "won't someone think about the users who just want to play games".

It's like TBS and Overboard (North American reference, apologies to those who don't get it) ... every few weeks you know you're going to see it again!!

This is all covered in the various FAQs.

Maybe we should have a sticky in Software listing some of the emulators that put playability ahead of preservation.

</end rant>

[Flinkly]

yeah, this is the final post for this thread...as for the legality, i know of no man who owns all the arcade machines for the whole mame list, and know very few who only use mame to run arcade games they do have.  thus, it's illegal.

like i said before, i'm not looking for an argument, cause you can just go to about 25 other threads to do just that.  listen to cheffo, cause thats what he's talking about.

also, you made some point about misrepresented hardware in mame, if you don't like it, you could always fix it yourself (again, as cheffo pointed out).

and lastly, for input hacks, that is because someone like you actually did something for themselves and created what they want.

well...enough of this, i'm gonna go do something about building my own arcade controls...

[JB]

yeah, this is the final post for this thread...as for the legality, i know of no man who owns all the arcade machines for the whole mame list, and know very few who only use mame to run arcade games they do have.  thus, it's illegal.

MAME is used illegally. But it is not illegal.
There is a diffrence.

Writable CDs are used quite frequently for piracy. So are VCRs.
None of the above are illegal(despite heavy lobbying by media industries to crush them).

Same concept applies here.
MAME is a legal product that is often used illegally.



I'm only pointing this out because people see these statements, take them as fact, and next thing you know things like "Nintendo Power magazine gave away free games in Japan" are being quoted by large #s of people.

And it's not like copyright law is commonly understood anyways. So a mis-statement of copyright law seems to me a very important thing to correct.


As an example, people keep insisting that free games are public domain software, because they didn't have to buy them(regardless of whether or not it's through a pay service such as the Sega Channel, or free as with most homebrews).

In point of fact, software is not public domain untill it is explicitly IDed as such by the copyright holder, regardless of how it was released.

and lastly, for input hacks, that is because someone like you actually did something for themselves and created what they want.

But the fact that it was added into the official release version says something about the priorities.

I don't have a problem with them trying to get the emulation as accurate as possible. In fact, I encourage it.
But these sorts of things DO lend weight to the argument that, regardless of official statements, MAME is FOR playing games as opposed to it being a happy coincidence.
That's all I'm saying.

[CheffoJeffo]

[Original post deleted]

Just for reference, the various Sony vs Bleem cases (of which Sony lost only some suits) established that Bleem was legal.

Other emulators, particularly those that circumvent copy-protection or encryption algorithms are not necessarily legal under the DMCA (yeah, that was a good idea!).

It isn't that simple ... and has been beaten to death,  always by people who aren't lawyers, because no lawyer would make blind blanket statements converning copyright law and the application of particular cases.

Unless you are using only legal ROMS, the legality of MAME is irrelevant since you are in violation with your ROMS.

If the academic argument interests you, then be sure to read up on Nintendo, Microsoft, Napster, Adobe, etc. There is lots of case law beyond Sony and Bleem ... and it doesn't all paint the same picture.

Cheers

[Kremmit]

It's like TBS and Overboard (North American reference, apologies to those who don't get it) ... every few weeks you know you're going to see it again!!

Yeah, what IS the deal with that?  Did Ted Turner do a cameo in it or something?

[CheffoJeffo]

[Yeah, what IS the deal with that?  Did Ted Turner do a cameo in it or something?

I couldn't tell ya ...

I'm a John Carpenter fan, so I guess I'm a Kurt Russell (Snake Plissken/Jack Burton/MacReady) fan by association, but seeing Overboard every few weeks is painful ... almost as painful as the fact that I still end up watching it ...

Cheers

[JB]

[Original post deleted]

Just for reference, the various Sony vs Bleem cases (of which Sony lost only some suits) established that Bleem was legal.

Other emulators, particularly those that circumvent copy-protection or encryption algorithms are not necessarily legal under the DMCA (yeah, that was a good idea!).

*dusts off soapbox*
Of course, under the DMCA everything from CD-writers to sharpie markers is illegal because it CAN be used for piracy or the circumvention of copy protection.
...
Hmm, I wonder if the recent DVD copy-protection fixes are illegal. Last attempt to add copy protection to DVD consisted of making sure the DVDs set off glitches in the existing copier apps, which have since been upgraded to fix the bugs.


The DMCA is so wide-reaching it's insane.
*puts soapbox back up*

[brandon]

and lastly, for input hacks, that is because someone like you actually did something for themselves and created what they want.

But the fact that it was added into the official release version says something about the priorities.

I don't have a problem with them trying to get the emulation as accurate as possible. In fact, I encourage it.
But these sorts of things DO lend weight to the argument that, regardless of official statements, MAME is FOR playing games as opposed to it being a happy coincidence.
That's all I'm saying.

agreed.. if Mame was simply about documenting arcade hardware then you couldn't play light gun games with a mouse, or play Pole Position with a keyboard.. Mame is,among other thing, for playing games and that's undeniable.

[Lilwolf]

And to add to the original question.

They don't use 3d hardware because it doesn't matter.  Emulating the 3d hardware is only a very small percentage of whats slow.  They have disabled ALL video (blank screen) so nothing is rendered (and this would be faster then putting a 3d wrapper on it).. and it moves it from 10ghz down to about 9.7ghz...

IE it doesn't buy you anything.... And its less accurate.

What you CAN do is this.  Write your own emulator (really).  Look at the mame source and then write your own.  Then hook it up to 3d hardware.  But this is the kicker... You can add all the speed hacks and you may make it playable. 

Of course... it would take a year for most people who don't know enough about emulation who would take 3 months to basically figure it out.   But its VERY doable... especially since you know everything about the hardware.

But in the end... I'm not 100% sure it would be playable on todays hardware... but maybe playable on hardware a year from not...

[elvis]

Elvis cranks up his patented FAQ-o-matic link engine...

A01. Why this FAQ?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#a01

G02. What do I need to run MAME?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#g02

G06. Is MAME illegal?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#g06

T10. Why do some games run so slowly on my system?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#t10

T11. How can I get <insert game here> to run faster?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#t11

M13. When will MAME use Direct3D/OpenGL to emulate <insert insane 3D system here>?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m13

M14. Why does MAME become slower all the time?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m14

M15. Why is MAME so slow? These games ran at less than 10 MHz, and my CPU is 500 MHz!
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m15

M16. Why don't the developers put more hacks in MAME?
http://www.mame.net/mamefaq.html#m16

Well I'll be darned... every single question in this thread is answered by... (wait for it) THE FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS PAGE!

Holy obvious answers, Batman!  You mean the Frequently Asked Questions page answers the questions that are asked frequently?  Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle!

But hey, what's a forum for, if not for asking redundant questions a bazillion times over that are already well documented on the OFFICIAL SOFTWARE WEBSITE?

[pointdablame]

n00bs don't read FAQs.  It's some kind of rule.  They don't read stickied threads either 

[rescue161]

Sorry for ruining your day.  I won't ask any more questions...

[CheffoJeffo]

Sorry for ruining your day.

[pointdablame]

Sorry for ruining your day.  I won't ask any more questions...

That's not what we (at least I) mean at all.  My post was just a friendly jab at ya, that's all.  We were all new once, and all had the same questions.  The only problem is most people come in and assume they are the first people to wonder why xxx happens.... but they aren't.  I suggest you read the MAME FAQ, and the stickies in this forum.  Even if you only wonder about Cruisin USA, if you take some time to read those, I guarantee you will come out of it with so much more info than you could imagine.

When people here suggest that, most people see it as "you suck, go read ya n00b, leave us alone"  That's really not the case.  There is just SOOOOOO much info in the FAQ, stickies, and example pages, that you can literally learn almost everything that way.  Then once you have read that, you can ask much more intelligent questions.... and rag on the n00bs that didn't read the FAQ like you did  

[Flinkly]

ahhh....the cycle of life (on the BYOAC website...).

[Scott84]

TURN THE SOUND OFF IN CRUISN' USA.

It will run a whole lot better. My friend has a AMD64 3500+ with a gig of ram and i played it without sound running smooth. The only problem was that on a keyboard. you just cant give this game justice. You need a WHEEL..... What kind of wheel did it use? 270 or 360?

[paigeoliver]

Cruisin' USA always makes me laugh, so much chatter on the arcade boards about a game that roughly 4 cabinet owners have the proper controls for.

270 wheel (analog)
4 speed shifter
3 analog pedals.

[RitchieTheBrit]

Ho hum. 

The more things change around here, the more they stay the same! 

[Flinkly]

3 pedals?  i almost can play that (not on the comp, just with controls...)

[SNAAKE]

Ok why bother with cruise n usa again ? It sucks already.Why dont you just get an xbox or ps2 and get burnout3,need for speed underground 2,outrun2,etc.Play em PERFECT !

[Scott84]

I wonder if there are any good Analog PC 270 degree pc wheels with pc pedals to give this game justice?

[brandon]

I wonder if there are any good Analog PC 270 degree pc wheels with pc pedals to give this game justice?

I read a lot of great reviews about the Logitech MOMO Racing Wheel.. but I've yet to order one.

[Joystick Jerk]

I have one of the earlier Logitech racing wheels, and it performs flawlessly to this day. It doesn't have a faux-leather grip, but I actually prefer that since my hands get all sweaty on leather wheels. The pedals work well, if being a tad flimsy in their construction, but they haven't broken in four years, so they do the job.

[Tiger-Heli]

You also could try underclocking the processors through the cheat menu - See

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,19076.0.html

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,18170.0.html

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,19222.0.html

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,4815.0.html (just kidding)

[daywane]

sega saturn