Response from Act-Labs about TV Lightgun...

[Warborg]

Well, I have been asking Act-Labs about a PC lightgun that works with TV-out, and here is the response I have received.  If you guys are interested in this product, write in to them at orders@act-labs.com!  Have your friends/family/pets write in as well!  

"Warren,

We do have it developed but at this time we do not think the demand is
there.

***When replying please include all previous email correspondence.***

Regards,
Orders at ACT LABS




-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Colvett [mailto:wcolvett@yahoo.com]
Sent: November 26, 2002 9:17 AM
To: orders@act-labs.com
Subject: RE: Lightgun question...


That's a shame, as you are alienating a large portion of the audience that
is actually clamoring
for a lightgun, but aren't interested in a VGA-only version.  As far as that
goes, your FAQ online
states that a TV version is being considered.  Has this stance changed?

--- Orders at ACT LABS <orders@act-labs.com> wrote:
> Warren,
>
> At this time we do not plan on launching a TV version.
>
> ***When replying please include all previous email correspondence.***
>
> Regards,
> Orders at ACT LABS
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Colvett [mailto:wcolvett@yahoo.com]
> Sent: November 25, 2002 6:47 PM
> To: orders@act-labs.com
> Subject: Lightgun question...
>
>
> I would like to check on the future prospects of having a TV-compatible
> lightgun for the PC...  Currently there are many people that are building
> arcade (MAME) cabinets that use a TV as the video display, and currently
are
> unable to use your product.  A TV compatible version would be welcomed in
> the emulation community and I am sure would be quite popular.  What are
the
> chances of this being done, and in what time frame?
>
> Thank you for your time,
> Warren Colvett"

[StephenH]

Let everyone who wants a TV lightgun, e-mail act labs, and demand that they will buy it, and lets all cause enough demand for them to produce it.

[Smack]

I just sent out my email expressing interest in one!

[wee beastie]

done  and *bump*

[ITrek]

Ditto.  Just sent a nice email Act Labs also encourging them to build and sell these lightguns.

[SNAAAKE]

I sent one today too..even though i dont have tv in my cab or want any.but if it helps anyone else..

WHY not

[Smack]

They're reading them, I got a nice reply from them today:

Scott,
 
Thanks for your interest.
 
***When replying please include all previous email correspondence.***

Regards,
Orders at ACT LABS



-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Szymczak [mailto:redpinata@charter.net]
Sent: November 27, 2002 4:26 PM
To: orders@act-labs.com
Subject: Would order TV lightgun of you make it.


Just passing along my 2 cents. I currently use MAME with a TV as a monitor. (With svideo out being standard and the quality so good, a lot of us MAMErs are using them.
 
I would buy a TV lightgun from you in a second!
 
Sincerely,
Scott Szymczak

[Howard_Casto]

I hate to say I told you so guys, but I told you so.  I was really afraid this would happen.  You see the problem with marketing for MAME is that you can't.  The casual mame user probably does use only a vga monitor but what they don't understand is the casual mame user isn't who's buying their product.  

Their major problem was they hung out at mameworld asking quesitons and didn't spend enough time here.  Let's face it, the mameworld guys (no offense)  just play mame on thier desktop pc's for the most part.  They also aren't always willing to buy an expensive controller where as we are.  

So what did they do?  They built a stock pc lightgun with good mame support, expected it to sell well, and it didnt.  Unfortunately they didn't realize that that's not what the majority of us byoac's need.  And general sales for pc use is laughable as there really aren't any pc lightgun games anymore.  

Anyway getting to the point.  I looked at the product examples the other day and about 60-80% (going by search)  had a tv in them.  About another 10-20% had arcade monitors or some other speciality monitor.   So although there are a lot of you, the number of people who have vga monitors and have actually been willing to spend enough time and money to build a full cabinet (proving you would be more prone to buy such a device.)  is small compared to those with a tv or arcade monitor who want one.  

Long story short act-labs screwed up, but they've already lost a lot of money so they might not be willing to try to fix it.  

Why am I so sinical about it?
One of the act-labs representatives visited the chatroom a long time ago when they were back in the planning stage.  Even though all we asked about was the tv version he would swiftly change the subject back to the features a vga version would need.  I had a good feeling back then that they had very little intention of making a tv version at all.  

[SNAAAKE]

How about a gun with a switch between VGA and 15KHz arcade monitor/tv.

That way..tv people,arcade monitor people and vga dudes would buy the gun.

Whatever....jack the price up..SAY...$50 a pop.not bad deal if act labs can get things done correctly .

[Silverwind]

For what it's worth I sent an e-mail to them with my support for a TV version.

[wee beastie]

I actually emailed them the first day the VGA guns came out.  I expressed my disappointment that there was not a TV version.  I don't think that they like us too much  

[Dave_K.]

Sorry if this has already been answered in another thread, but is the problem with it not being compatible with a TV because it can't read a sync rate a low as 15khz??  Has anyone actually tried it on an arcade monitor 640x480 at 15khz (via PowerStrip)??

[Mannix2]

I added my two cents!

[Howard_Casto]

Sorry if this has already been answered in another thread, but is the problem with it not being compatible with a TV because it can't read a sync rate a low as 15khz??  Has anyone actually tried it on an arcade monitor 640x480 at 15khz (via PowerStrip)??

I'm thinking the gun would be hackable, it's just with a botched job the accuracy would be horrible.  

That's what makes me so angry, actlabs went to soo much toruble to make sure it runs at different resolutions and refresh rates it would have been realitively easy to go the extra mile.  

Here's all they would need to do....

#1 Make the drivers able to calculate at 15khz and at tv resolutions.

That one's a simple math thing except the 15khz, but it's still not impossible or increadibly hard.

#2 Make a screen blanker that works on tv-out.  

This one is simple if you limit it to svideo/component out.  A bit harder if you use composite, but if your picture is that bad you probably have other troubles.  

#3 Adjust the sensor in the gun so it can pick up white on a tv.  

The contrast and luma is slightly different.  I don't even know if that is necessary.

So with maybe 4 more months of work they could have got the existing gun to work on tv's and virtually anything.  

I'm not an expert on lightgun technology or anything. But from my readings it's very simple.  If there would be more to it I wish the act labs guys would explain it to me.  If not then they are just missing out on a massive customer base.  

[Dave_K.]

I'm no expert at light guns either, but I think its may be even simpler than you think.  I don't believe optics have anything to do with it.  The optics don't need to be better for it to pick up larger dots on an NTSC screen.

No, the problem is strictly software.  This is something they should be able to release as a patch.  You should be able to setup your machine in 640x480@60hz, hookup your TV through an s-vid card, and tell the driver to exactly halve the sync rate (31.5khz) when it does its calculation.  Thats it.   I bet the mod they are thinking they'd have to do is add an s-vid input to the box to grab the 15.7khz sync.

Someone could probably even test this out, but setting up a machine via powerstrip or s-vid out at 640x480@60, and shooting the gun at the lower right corner of the tv screen.  I bet it will register a hit around the middle right of your tv screen (since the bottom right is at 15.7hz which is the middle right if the gun thought your sync was 31.5khz vga).

PS make sure your TV is setup with proper brightness and contrast adjusted (just like you'd do for console light guns).  You may also want to calibrate it on your computer monitor first, and then try aiming at the tv to see where it registers the hit (providing your card can display s-vid and monitor at the same time).

[TaskyZZ]

This hack would not work.  There is a little box that is connected between the monitor and the PC that causes the screen to flash.  The flash is not seen on a connected TV.  So, yes you would need to hack the little box for an S-Video port so that you could flash the TV screen white.

I agree that they could make one that worked with TV fairly easily, in fact, they have.  They have said that they have one that works with TV's, but they are not releasing it.

[Howard_Casto]

The screen blanker is a retardedly simple piece of technology.  All it does it send a pure white signal to the screen.  The software, however needs to know the type of blanker and how fast it takes to draw the white.  As a matter of fact a blanker isn't necessary, white could be drawn on the screen via software, but mame and any other game would have to be modded.  

So basically their blanker is a hardware hack for the games that aren't compatible.  All mame games that used a true light gun (not nintendo, not t2)  already white the screen, so with a bit of tweaking they would work out of the box.  

[Dave_K.]

Ahhh, I forgot about that.  I get it now, the white flash is happening at 31.5khz (the gun knows that timing) and its to fast to see through the 15.7khz s-video connection.  Darn.

[Bill_S]

I just wanted to add that I sent Act Labs and e-mail as well.
My fingers are crossed that we'll see one.
(if we don't I may have to get a D9200, I really want to add light gun gaming to my cab)