ps2 to usb - anyone try this? - pic attached

[KenToad]

I just checked at my local Radio Shack and they had this adaptor.  I have a keywiz eco and a hacked ps2 mouse spinner for my desktop control panel and I can't get the ps2 connections to be hot swappable.  I hate to spend another twenty bucks on yet another piece of hardware for my already pricey retrogaming hobby.  Of course, they'll take it back within thirty days, but it doesn't say anything about being hot swappable and the salesman had no idea.  Anybody try this one out?

KenToad

[Tiger-Heli]

See my comments in this thread.

BTW, why can't you hot-swap the KeyWiz Eco.  I do that all the time with no problems.

[KenToad]

From personal experience, I had problems with a USB adapter on a PS/2 keyboard on my KeyWiz.

IIRC, the toggle switch stopped working and a few other quirky things.  Took the USB dongle off and the problems went away.

Not your *exact* situation, but thought it might be helpful.

Well, from personal experience, I had problems with a USB adapter on a PS/2 Keyboard without the KeyWiz.

Yes, I use a KeyWiz.  Yes, I was too cheap to buy a USB keyboard, and bought a PS/2-USB adapter (also avoided having to explain why I needed a different keyboard when nothing was wrong with the other one.)  Yes, I have had others verify that the problems I was seeing did not occur with a true USB keyboard.

Adapter was a QVS brand from MicroCenter, but I'm not sure that matters.

Problems - Keyboard will stop typing shifted keys if you hold down the shift button and type.

(From before I got the KeyWiz) - I was playing BattleZone.  If I held down the "I" key the entire time, the tank would spin left (actually move forward and turn left).  Then if I pressed the "D" key it would spin left faster.  So far so good.  Now if I release the "D" key, the tank will spin slowly left and then stop.  (It should keep spinning because the "I" key was still held down.  Does not happen with the regular PS/2 keyboard.  Was able to verify the same behavior in Notepad.  RandyT verified this does not happen with a true USB keyboard.

Also, I sometimes get an apparent "Stuck key" when I first hot-swap the KeyWiz into the system.  Doesn't always happen, hasn't happened lately, not sure if it's related.

 

Tiger-Heli,

Hmm, I'll check it out again.  I tried several times, I believe, probably doesn't depend on computer specs.   I'm a little bit confused about your post in the other thread.  Also, do you still sometimes get the stuck key when you hot-swap the KeyWiz?  I'll probably get the usb adaptor either way, since the laptop doesn't have ps2 ports.  Thanks for the quick reply.

kenToad

[NinjaEpisode]

Was actually going to borrow one of these from work and test it with my PS2 Spinner since my trackball is PS2 as well and see if I can get the spinner to be recognized at the same time.

[2600]

Tiger_Heli,
I think this is like one of the only areas where I disagree with you and wish you would put a disclaimer when you say this. 

Being a Hardware guy you can not hot swap a PS/2 connection.  Now hold on before, you say I've done it seventy times and never had a problem, remember there is a difference between saying I've done it seventy times and actually the spec allowing it.  In the olden days, if you hot swapped a PS/2 connection you were likely to blow a fuse and you'd have a dead motherboard.  Recent motherboards are more forgiving, and I've seen it done on many PC's, but electrically it's not "wise" and it's not designed to operate that way.  I always get the users who say I've done it a hundred times before, but it's that one time out of a hundred and it doesn't work that totally stumps them.  Which is why I disagree with you on this one point,  but only because many users may take your words as truth and may not be as savvy which would leads to frustration on their part if not worst, a dead MB.

I'd love to see one of the manufacturers for these boards step up and say something about it, but not sure if they will.  In any case, I bet the response is we've done testing and it's worked for us, but it isn't designed to do this.

[Tiger-Heli]

Hmm, I'll check it out again.  I tried several times, I believe, probably doesn't depend on computer specs.

Try hot-swapping a PS/2 keyboard.  If that works, you should be able to hot-swap the KeyWiz.

I'm a little bit confused about your post in the other thread.

Okay, here's some more details:

I have a normal work PC with a desktop controller with a KeyWiz that I hot-swap on the PS/2 port (with 2600's disclaimer).

Since I need a keyboard on the PC, and didn't want to buy a new USB one, I use my old PS/2 keyboard with the adapter like you mentioned.  The adapter works but does not work well for keyboard use - i.e. if I hold down the Shift button and type, the third letter on will not be shifted, and if I hold down one key, and then press and release a second key, the first key is no longer sent, even though it is still depressed.

I suspect the same thing would happen with the KeyWiz connected to the adapter.  I.e., it should work after a fashion, but won't work well. . .

Also, do you still sometimes get the stuck key when you hot-swap the KeyWiz?

Not lately <crosses fingers>.  And it wasn't a stuck key, it was a stuck output - hard to explain, but tapping any key would clear it, and it hasn't happened again, so I think it was just some crossed wiring somewhere, maybe. . .

[Tiger-Heli]

Tiger_Heli,
I think this is like one of the only areas where I disagree with you and wish you would put a disclaimer when you say this. 

Being a Hardware guy you can not hot swap a PS/2 connection.  Now hold on before, you say I've done it seventy times and never had a problem, remember there is a difference between saying I've done it seventy times and actually the spec allowing it.  In the olden days, if you hot swapped a PS/2 connection you were likely to blow a fuse and you'd have a dead motherboard.  Recent motherboards are more forgiving, and I've seen it done on many PC's, but electrically it's not "wise" and it's not designed to operate that way.  I always get the users who say I've done it a hundred times before, but it's that one time out of a hundred and it doesn't work that totally stumps them.  Which is why I disagree with you on this one point,  but only because many users may take your words as truth and may not be as savvy which would leads to frustration on their part if not worst, a dead MB.

I'd love to see one of the manufacturers for these boards step up and say something about it, but not sure if they will.  In any case, I bet the response is we've done testing and it's worked for us, but it isn't designed to do this.

Point taken.  I agree - the spec does not allow you to hot-swap a PS/2 connection.  I have a disclaimer on my keyboard hacks page.  I also have also done it many times.  The risk is usually not a dead motherboard, but rather a dead keyboard fuse on the PS/2 port.

The explantion that I have most often heard is that you are sending +5V and Ground over the connection so you could possibly short the two and blow the MB fuse, but you are also sending +5V and GND over the USB port and it doesn't have this restriction, so I'm not sure what the reasons are. . .

[2600]

Point taken.  I agree - the spec does not allow you to hot-swap a PS/2 connection.  I have a disclaimer on my keyboard hacks page.  I also have also done it many times.  The risk is usually not a dead motherboard, but rather a dead keyboard fuse on the PS/2 port.

The explantion that I have most often heard is that you are sending +5V and Ground over the connection so you could possibly short the two and blow the MB fuse, but you are also sending +5V and GND over the USB port and it doesn't have this restriction, so I'm not sure what the reasons are. . .

Yeah, your right usually it's just a dead port and you do put the disclaimer on your website.  I think there has just been an large amount of posts recently talking about encoders and just happen to notice it, but like I said it's like one out of a large number of things that I disagreed with.  So pretty good odds. 

Here's some information on the why thing, won't get into all the details though just enought to get the point.  For one thing, during the initial connection of hot swapping a device there is a large surge when connecting the device, this can be like 3 times the current draw. The USB spec accounts for the large surge when initialy connecting a device and allow for 3 or more amps for this short surge.  And for some reason a lot of older PS/2 fuses aren't of the resettable type which makes it even more of a problem as it's not designed to source that amount of current for any period of time no matter how small.

Additionaly, the connection itself is designed so that you are attaching the GND and power before attaching other pins. If you look, inside a Male USB connector you will notice that the outside pins are longer then the inside pins.  These are only part of the problems, but you get I think you'll get the point.

Now, ESD and stuff is a whole nother can of worms that I won't get into.

[quarterback]

I just checked at my local Radio Shack and they had this adaptor.

[cholin]

Quick question about this adapter.  I was just on a site and I saw one of these things, so I was wonderring if Ultimarc products can use it too?  Since they detect it and all that crap, I was wonderring basically if there's any special wiring in these adapters, because if there isnt and it's just a wire split into 2 connectors, I can use it with a minipac, right?

[Bloinkxp]

KenToad,

Do you have a USB KB?  That would allow you to avoid hot swapping.  I picked up a cheap one from a Computer Show for $10.  I know that some people are attached to their keyboards and this may not be an option, but I thought I should "throw it out there".

-d

[KenToad]

I know this doesn't answer your hot-swapping question, but I'm not sure why you'd need to hotswap. Your post doesn't indicate what you want to swap with what.

MY SETUP:
Spinner -> serial
Keyboard -> ps2
mouse -> ps2
Keywiz -> ps2
trackball -> ps2

Two of the last 4 are hooked up through the USB thingy.   If your spinner is a mouse hack, then remove the mouse from the above configuration (use the trackball) and attach the spinner to the ps2 port where the mouse previously was.

Hey Quarterback,

I guess I meant hot-swappable just in terms of plugging the thing at any time after bootup and having it be functional.  I could get a usb keyboard and have considered doing so.  Also, I have a usb optical mouse and I can run that at the same time as the ps2 mouse hack.  What I can't do is plug the keywiz and the mouse hack into the computer while it's running and have those things start working immediately.  I am at home now and will further test this momentarily.  However, even if I went the usb keyboard route, I would still have to unplug and replug the connections from the control panel since my panel is way too big to be sitting on the desk all the time.  To give you an idea, here is my panel, as posted a while ago in project announcements.  Thanks for the helpful advice.

KenToad

[KenToad]

BTW, why can't you hot-swap the KeyWiz Eco. I do that all the time with no problems.

Okay Tiger-Heli, I just checked it out and got the KeyWiz to hot-swap.  My mouse hack, however, will not activate when it's plugged in after the computer has been turned on.  Is it related to the fact that I use a usb mouse and have never even used the mouse ps2 port for anything except the spinner--i.e. can the hardware hot-swap but only if it senses a device in the port at boot?  I've decided to go ahead and purchase one of those adaptors from the original post, mainly because I'd like the Keywiz to work somehow with the laptop.  I'll update with the review of the product when I get a chance to test it, although it sounds like I'll be making something up to return it--just can't bother explaining keyboard encoders and the like to Radio Shack salespeople, if you know what I mean.

KenToad

[RandyT]

I'd love to see one of the manufacturers for these boards step up and say something about it, but not sure if they will.  In any case, I bet the response is we've done testing and it's worked for us, but it isn't designed to do this.

I have mentioned this before (I think) on the topic of hot-swapping PS/2.  It's totally at the user's risk, but having said that, I'm not sure how much risk there actually is with anything manufactured in the last 5 - 8 years or so.  My case is far more extreme than anyone else's is likely to be.  Here it is:

The system: P2 600 eMachine with just about the lowest end MB you could imagine.

I have hot swapped keyboards and encoders on this thing, no exaggeration, at least 5000 times.  Once, while prototyping, I mis-wired something and watched a resistor glow bright orange.  The port stopped working after that....for about 10minutes.  Once it cooled down, it was right as rain.

I also do a lot of testing on different systems and can say that I have never turned one off before plugging in a keyboard or encoder.  Never once saw a problem.  It doesn't mean that something might not happen to you, but it has never happened with me...with PS/2.

I can relate an experience that happened about 10 years ago though.  I was plugging a keyboard into my prized 486, you know, the big ugly 5-pin DIN deal, and I did indeed pop the fuse.  The cause was probably related to the fact that is was one of those old, power hungry (by today's standards) clicky keyboards that most likely didn't have a resistor on the power line to help limit the draw of the keyboard when it started up, as well as a small fuse on the motherboard. It was a long time ago and with hardware that bears little semblence to what is out there today (or even yesterday).

Something else to consider:  The power circuit on the KeyWiz is the same, whether for USB or PS/2 operation.  Some of you have probably noticed that the only difference hardware-wise between the USB GP-Wiz and the PS/2 KeyWiz is the connector.  There is a low value resistor on the power line that provides for a ramp to 5v, albeit a very short one.  This may too alleviate some of that surge at plug in time. 

So is there a conclusion to all of this?  Not really.  Just a bag of experience, coupled with some facts, a fairly loose specification for the port and the knowledge that the last thing a MB manufacturer wants to deal with is a rash of users with blown PS/2 port fuses (which works to your benefit here.)  But I will try to sum it up as best as I can.

Does it work? Yes, but you have to understand the risks, just like you do every day when you hop in your car to go to work. They are quite small, but they are there.  My expectation is that if you get away with it the first 10 - 15  times, you will continue to have no problems, as that has been my experience.

If the fuse pops is it the end for the motherboard?  Not usually.  It'll be a small pain in the butt, but you should only need to hack a keyboard extension cable and run a 5v line into it from the power supply, i.e. bypass the fuse that popped.  From there I expect that you could hot-swap until the cows came home (does anyone know where the cows actually went?)

If I plug in a KeyWiz (or other PS/2 encoder) with the power on and I blow my fuse, will you buy me a new motherboard?  No.   If you are using an ancient motherboard, play it safe and avoid it.  Otherwise, if you are really that worried about the small possibility of this happening, you should get a couple of USB GP-Wiz's or GP-Wiz49's and a cheap hub and hot-swap your heart out.

RandyT


BTW, as an interesting aside, how many folks reading this have had a problem with hot-swapping PS/2 in the last 8 years that they can absolutely attribute to it?  This may be a deserving of a poll question

[KenToad]

Hey RandyT,

Thanks for joining the thread, especially with such a detailed reply.  I wanted to thank you personally for producing such quality products.  I'll have another order coming up here soon.  You won't know it's me ordering, of course, since you don't know my real name--ha.  Anyway, I think you're right about this deserving a poll.  Also, do you, or anyone else, have any experience with hot-plugging (in other words, with the computer running into a mouse port that was unused) a ps2 mouse?  For me, this may ultimately make me keep the adaptor even if it turns out not to work well with the Keywiz.  Otherwise, maybe I'll switch out my keywiz for a GP-Wiz and use the Keywiz for my upcoming bartop.  Thanks again.

KenToad

[RandyT]

I wanted to thank you personally for producing such quality products.

No, thank you.  If nobody bought them, I wouldn't bother

Also, do you, or anyone else, have any experience with hot-plugging (in other words, with the computer running into a mouse port that was unused) a ps2 mouse?  For me, this may ultimately make me keep the adaptor even if it turns out not to work well with the Keywiz.

My experience is that you cannot just plug in a PS/2 mouse (or anything that thinks it is one) and expect it to work after boot time.  This may be different with a newer OS like XP, and someone else will have to chime in on that one as I don't run that OS.   

Sometimes, you can swap out a PS/2 mouse with another PS/2 mouse device after Windows loads, but usually, if it's not there at load time, Windows won't see it afterwards.  For hot-swapping mice/trackballs,  USB is the way to go, and that adapter should work for that. 

Also, due to limitations inherent to those adapters and USB Keyboards in general, I don't recommend hooking a KeyWiz to it.  It might work...sort of...but it'll cripple the performance severely.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Just wanted to add a little on the mouse issue.  Like RandyT said, I don't think you can hot-swap a PS/2 mouse if it is not present at boot-up.

Two thoughts -

That adapter that I use with the PS/2 keyboard also has a mouse connector (like the one in the picture) and the mouse is detected and installed when the adapter is plugged in (whether or not a mouse is attached).  This means that all your other mice will shift down (i.e. if you were to  use a USB trackball it will be Mouse 3 to MAME instead of Mouse 2).

I think the adapter would allow you to hot-swap your PS/2 mouse hack, either with or witout un-plugging the adapter.  I.e. you could either leave the hack connected to the adapter and hot-swap it from the USB port, or leave the adapter connected to the computer and hot swap the hack from the PS/2 port.

[Tiger-Heli]

I'll update with the review of the product when I get a chance to test it, although it sounds like I'll be making something up to return it--just can't bother explaining keyboard encoders and the like to Radio Shack salespeople, if you know what I mean.

I wouldn't say for sure that you'll be returning it.  It will probably work adequately, just not well, but how often are you going to use the laptop with a big hulking CP for gaming?  It will work better than trying to mash the little keyboard keys.

The other question is cost - If it's $8-10 for the adapter for occasional use, it's not a big deal, if it's more expensive, you might look at a GP-Wiz Eco replacement for the KeyWiz and then you wouldn't need to be concerned about the performance issues.

[cholin]

Does anybody know how it will work with a Minipac or Ipac or whatever?  I need a PS2 to USB connector, so I wonder if I can use this or if Ill have to rip it apart and solder it differently because it sounds as if theres a chip in the little box on the wire because a mouse is detected no matter what...

[Tiger-Heli]

Does anybody know how it will work with a Minipac or Ipac or whatever?  I need a PS2 to USB connector, so I wonder if I can use this or if Ill have to rip it apart and solder it differently because it sounds as if theres a chip in the little box on the wire because a mouse is detected no matter what...

The mouse connections on the Mini-pac only work in USB mode anyway, AFAIK.  As I said before, if you are buying the I-PAC or whatever new, just get the extra cable from Andy.  If you already have it, buy one of these adapters locally and return it if it doesn't work.

I don't think you would need to rip it apart and solder it differently, but I'm not sure what from the I-PAC you are going to connect to it for the optical side.

[KenToad]

big hulking CP

Thanks

 It will work better than trying to mash the little keyboard keys.

Let's hope so.  I'll let you know when I get the product.

The other question is cost - If it's $8-10 for the adapter for occasional use, it's not a big deal, if it's more expensive, you might look at a GP-Wiz Eco replacement for the KeyWiz and then you wouldn't need to be concerned about the performance issues.

Well, as has been stated before, cost is relative.  If you add the cost of shipping and the headache of reconfiguring an already configured system.  I would have to switch over all my emulators to joystick inputs for the second player, not to mention having to use RBJoy for VPinmame at the very least, although I think I would probably have to set it up for Atomic Bomberman as well, just to get in and out of the game without touching the mouse (so that I can imagine that my CP has cabinet functionality  )

One question for RandyT, if he's still checking this thread, or for anyone that might have both the GPWiz Eco no-solder and the Keywiz Eco no-solder to tell me whether or not they have the same pin configuration, i.e. whether I can just lift my IDE connector from the one encoder and squeeze it onto the new one?  Of course I mean relatively, since one is for the keyboard and the other is for joystick.  Maybe this question is not really relevant given those differences.  Disregard it if you see irrelevancy.  Thanks a lot. 

BTW, Cholin, if you figure out that I-Pac/Minipac issue, post it here because I'm curious also, although I'll probably stick with my (or maybe Oscar's) mouse hacks.  Trackballs still seem too pricey for my budget, although I'd love to have two for authentic Cabal gameplay ... frantic diving rolling and shooting, gotta love it.

KenToad

[AndyWarne]

In general on any motherboard manufactured in the last year or so you can't hot-swap PS/2. It might work some of the time but most times it will cause the mouse to lock up. Of course if you are not using the mouse this will not be a problem. the reason for this is that recent motherboards have keyboard/mouse controllers (actually part of the motherboard chipset) which share I/O lines. The original concept of separate keyboard and mouse each with their own hardare interface has long gone. No damage will occur though so by all means try it on your PC and see if the mouse freezes or not.

USB converters used with a PS/2 device will not work. Because the USB and PS/2 specs differ so much (ie USB sends a list of pressed keys and PS/2 sends key down/up codes) the USB converters are programmed to cancel all pressed keys every couple of seconds to avoid any stuck keys. So you will find that when moving in any direction by holding down a key, you will stop moving after a couple of seconds.
Andy

[RandyT]

In general on any motherboard manufactured in the last year or so you can't hot-swap PS/2. It might work some of the time but most times it will cause the mouse to lock up.

I have heard of this happening, but I'm not sure how common it is.  You might want to clarify that you are talking about the PS/2 mouse possibly having this issue and not just any mouse connected to the system. I.e. USB.

...USB converters are programmed to cancel all pressed keys every couple of seconds to avoid any stuck keys. So you will find that when moving in any direction by holding down a key, you will stop moving after a couple of seconds.

This is an overgeneralization.  How the converter handles the translation of the PS/2 protocol is entirely based on implementation.  The PS/2 to USB adapter I have in front of me does not exhibit this behaviour and will happily show a pressed key for as long as one holds it down.  It just won't take more than 6 non-modifiers at a time and induces a small amount of latency.

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

In general on any motherboard manufactured in the last year or so you can't hot-swap PS/2. It might work some of the time but most times it will cause the mouse to lock up.

I have heard of this happening, but I'm not sure how common it is.  You might want to clarify that you are talking about the PS/2 mouse possibly having this issue and not just any mouse connected to the system. I.e. USB.

Agreed!  Just to clarify (again).  I have a motherboard more than a year old, a PS/2 Keywiz that I routinely hot-swap, a PS/2 keyboard running through a USB adapter, and a dedicated USB mouse.  Never had the mouse lock up, but the system is probably old enough that the comment doesn't apply to me.

However, the PS/2 mouse (with scroll wheel) used to lock up on me, with various motherboards, before I had the KeyWiz which is why I went with a USB one.

...USB converters are programmed to cancel all pressed keys every couple of seconds to avoid any stuck keys. So you will find that when moving in any direction by holding down a key, you will stop moving after a couple of seconds.

This is an overgeneralization.  How the converter handles the translation of the PS/2 protocol is entirely based on implementation.  The PS/2 to USB adapter I have in front of me does not exhibit this behaviour and will happily show a pressed key for as long as one holds it down.  It just won't take more than 6 non-modifiers at a time and induces a small amount of latency.

RandyT

Agreed.  With my converter, I can hold down any one key indefinitely, but if I hold down two keys and then release one, both are cancelled.  Perhaps this is what you meant, or perhaps it varies from converter to converter.

[RandyT]

Agreed.  With my converter, I can hold down any one key indefinitely, but if I hold down two keys and then release one, both are cancelled.  Perhaps this is what you meant, or perhaps it varies from converter to converter.

And that really proves the point I was making, as this is a third variation.  You can't really make a blanket statement about the converters as they only have one common goal, and that is to allowa PS/2 keyboard to function via the USB port.  The goals of a keyboard encoder used for gaming are quite a bit loftier, and no matter what the implementation method used in the conversion process, this wasn't even close to being important to the designer when he was working on the project. 

Luck would definitely be on your side if you managed to find one that works well for gaming (and if you do, spread the word ), and the reasons are many and varied.  That is mostly where I was going with all of this.

RandyT

[ften]

        I haven't had any issues hot-swapping my keyboard on my computer and the motherboard is new. Probably switched it back and forth between my Mame computer/laptop/main computer a few hundred times in the last 2 months. My laptop will freeze the mouse though if I try hot-swapping the mouse.

-FTen

[Tiger-Heli]

KenToad was asking about using a PS/2-USB adapter with the KeyWiz, so I did some play testing and verification of my QVS PS/2 to USB adapter last night and got very weird results.

Long story short is I saw different results with the keyboard connected, with the KeyWiz connected, and in MAME.

I previously posted that with the keyboard hooked up, the first key would stop registering after I pressed and released a second key. 

I verified this in Word.  I held down

[KenToad]

Wow, Tiger-Heli, thanks a lot, I was still wondering about that, although I hadn't found the time to go pick one up.  Also, I'm still debating just going the road of reconfiguration and ordering a GP-Wiz from RandyT as part of my next order.  So, thanks a million.  Also, I've seen some Radio Shack branded ones and also the Compaq branded one from the pic at the top of this thread.  Do you think there might be any difference in performance between different adaptors,? 

The cool thing about the "big hulking CP" used with the laptop is that I can connect to someones TV from the S-Video port--kind of a cheapo portable Mame system.  I originally had my CP set up with a pair of PSX pad hacks and that meant that, not only was it portable, I could also plug it into any old playstation for Tekken or Tony Hawk.  The KeyWiz is a great product, though, and nicely replaced my second failed hack, which I realized wasn't really up to par for performing the special moves on SFII.  It might have been the adaptor, but the KeyWiz was the twenty-dollar pain reliever that also let me setup my favorite virtual pinball games without any intermediary programs running in the background. 

Well, I have more to think about.  Thanks again.

Cheers,
KenToad

[Tiger-Heli]

Also, I'm still debating just going the road of reconfiguration and ordering a GP-Wiz from RandyT as part of my next order.

That should provide better performance, although you would have to re-wire and re-configure everything and use RBJoy or something similar for Visual Pinball.

Also, I've seen some Radio Shack branded ones and also the Compaq branded one from the pic at the top of this thread.  Do you think there might be any difference in performance between different adaptors,?

Mine was a QVS (MicroCenter) one, and that's the only one I've tried, but based on Andy and Randy's posts above, I would guess performance differences might be likely.

What I am not clear about is that I saw poor performance with the adapter and the keyboard in MAME, Word and Ghostkey, and poor perfromance with the adapter and the KeyWiz in Word and Ghostkey, yet pretty good performance with the adapter and KeyWiz in MAME.  Something there doesn't add up. . . 

The cool thing about the "big hulking CP" used with the laptop is that I can connect to someones TV from the S-Video port--kind of a cheapo portable Mame system.

Ah, sweet!!!

The KeyWiz is a great product, though, and nicely replaced my second failed hack, which I realized wasn't really up to par for performing the special moves on SFII.

And that may make a difference with this also.  I play mostly the classics and 1942 and PacMan just aren't that demanding on an encoder.  If you need special moves in SFII and will be using the laptop more than occasionally, you may well be better off with the GP-Wiz and re-configuring.  Even with an intermediary program when you play VP!

[Tiger-Heli]

Did some more testing and have some updated results - using WinXP instead of Win98, but don't think that matters. . .

The adapter has two problems similar to what I experienced with normal keyboarding:

First, if you hold a key depressed, the key will register for about 1 second, not register for about 1/3 second, and then register again indefinitely.

Secondly, there is a slight but perceptable lag in all key response.  I would estimate it around 0.003-ish seconds.  It is faster than you (I) can mash the buttons, so I doubt it has a huge effect on gameplay, but it is there.

What effect this has on games depends on the games you are playing - In games like Tiger-Heli, 1942, Twin Cobra, Gyruss, etc., you rarely get to hold the stick in one position for very long, which is why I probably didn't see it previously.

In games like Battlezone, or Top Gunner or PacMan, it is just long enough to allow the tanks/ghosts to catch up with you when you otherwise would have gotten away, and is therefore unacceptable.

In short, this would only be acceptable to me for very occasional use with a laptop PC or sth, where I had no other option.

Again, I have heard reports of different sets of problems with other brands of adapters, and YMMV.