Multiple GP 49 questions...help please

[dema]

I am building a cabinet with a rotating control panel, and I intend to use 49 way joysticks along with Randy's GP 49 Wiz encoders. The problem I am having is that I will have a two player panel, where players 1 and 2 will have 49 ways set up in a fighter layout and will be connected to their own board; and I am also building a one player panel, where there's a single joystick in the center of the panel, with buttons on either side. These layouts will allow me to play games a little more true to form.

The problem I am having is that I'm not sure how I can wire the player 1 joysticks so that they both work immediately when I rotate to the different panels. Randy mentioned that the 49 ways don't work like regular joysticks, so I can't daisy chain the controls. Instead he said that I could use a switch that I'd flip when I change panels, to let the GP 49 Wiz know which joystick is the active player 1 joystick.

I thought maybe three encoders would do the trick and then have the player 1 controls programmed to the same keystroke but Randy didn't think that would work. I wasn't sure if it was possible to wire the two joysticks to the same encoder, much like daisy chaining, but I might be wrong on that. I was going to wire a regular joystick to a Mini-Pac but I'm sure once I go 49 I won't want to go back to microswitches and the difficult 4-way maneuvering.

Does anyone have any alternate ideas, or is the switch method that Randy mentioned the best option?

[Flinkly]

i'm doing switchable panels, but i intend to plug controls in and unplug them.  with rotating panels, all should be plugged in at once, so this is going to be a hard problem.  the only thing i can think of, is having a switch for all the wires on the player one gp49.  so when you switched panels, you'd flip the switch, and hopefully remember to switch it back before you went back to the other panel. 

might want to wait for some others to answer, because i know there must be a better way out there.  good luck.

[Tiger-Heli]

Not sure I completely got what you are doing, but here's my thoughts on a solution.  Someone else may shoot holes in it.

You want three 49-way sticks, two on a SF panel, and one on a PacMan style panel, correct?

Suggestion - Get 3 GP-Wiz49's, have them all plugged in.  In MAME, set your controls up so that:
P1_JOYSTICK_UP "JOYCODE_1_UP | JOYCODE_3_UP"
etc (repeat for Down, Right, and Left).
(might be different for newer versions of MAME).
This way either Joystick 1 or Joystick 3 will work for player 1.  (The GP-Wiz identifed as gamepad 3 should be connected to the Pac-Man Joystick).

Only problem is that if the 1 or 3 stick that is not in use gets bumped, it will affect gameplay, but I doubt this is likely to happen.

[dema]

Not sure I completely got what you are doing, but here's my thoughts on a solution.

[Tiger-Heli]

Now the method that you mention, would I need a third GP 49 Wiz?

I believe you would - RandyT could answer for sure.

It sounds like the solution you give is essentially assigning both joysticks to the same keyboard keystrokes, is that correct?

Not exactly - SF stick 1 is seen as Gamepad directionals 1.  SF Stick 3 is seen as Gamepad directionals 3, then you re-map MAME so EITHER Gamepad 1 or Gamepad 3 controls Player 1.  Keyboard keystrokes aren't used here.

Also, would MAME be able to read 49 way inputs as up, down, left, and right?

MAME can't really read 49-way inputs at all without Randy's GP-Wiz49 (unless you do some stuff with MAME Analog Plus and only in the 49-way games, AFAIK).  Randy's interface converts the 49-way inputs into an analog joystick signal.  I am ASSuMing MAME will read this as Joycode_1_Up, but it might be ANALOG_1_Y+ or sth.  Hopefully Randy or someone with the interface can answer.

[RandyT]

Yes, 1 interface is normally required per stick, but switching may be possible.

The interfaces report as Joy1 X/Y,  Joy2 X/Y, and so on.

I haven't tied this yet, but a simple DPDT toggle switch should be able to be used to selectively enable joysticks connected to the same interface by directing +5 and Ground to the stick you want to be active.

RandyT

[dema]

Yes, 1 interface is normally required per stick, but switching may be possible.

The interfaces report as Joy1 X/Y,

[Tiger-Heli]

Yes, 1 interface is normally required per stick, but switching may be possible.

The interfaces report as Joy1 X/Y,  Joy2 X/Y, and so on.

I haven't tied this yet, but a simple DPDT toggle switch should be able to be used to selectively enable joysticks connected to the same interface by directing +5 and Ground to the stick you want to be active.

RandyT

Just some clarification -

I think the Joycode_1_Up command I posted earlier is correct then for config files.  (This will probably appear as Joy1 Y+ in MAME^TM's TAB menu, or you could just use the sticks and the TAB menu to configure MAME^TM.

I believe the method I recommended will work well, but requires you to buy a third GP-Wiz49.  It also might not work with Emu's other than MAME, so you would have to pick stick 1 or Stick 3 as primary, and set up your other Emu's accordingly.

Randy thinks that a DPDT switch could work to select the active joystick.  This would require mounting the switch where it was accessible regardless of what panel you are using and remembering to activate it when you change panels.

Alternately, you maybe could hide the switch and use some weird combination of contacts and relays to activate it as the appropriate panel was selected, but that will probably be more expensive than the 3rd GP-Wiz49.

[dema]

Yes, 1 interface is normally required per stick, but switching may be possible.

The interfaces report as Joy1 X/Y,

[Tiger-Heli]

Is there a way to make joystick 1 and 3 redundant by going with 3 encoders? Would Tiger Heli's idea of remapping the MAME so that they read as the same joystick work?

Okay, this is somewhat trivial, but I want you to understand what is going on.  You are not remapping MAME so they read as the same joystick, you are remapping MAME so they control the same action, player 1 movement.

Let me give you a different example - Say you wanted Fire buttons on either side of your joystick for either-handed players in shooters, and you are using a KeyWiz.

Three ways to do it:

Method 1 - Wire both buttons to Terminal 1, which sends L Ctrl and MAME sees as Button 1.  Easiest solution, but won't work for 49-way joysticks.

Method 2 - Wire one buttton to Terminal 1, and one button to Terminal 2.  Reprogram the KeyWiz so that both Terminals send L Ctrl.  (Bad idea in practice b/c you are in effect wasting one input, but it would work).  This is not possible in the 49-way case, b/c you can't change what the GP-Wiz49 sends to the computer.

Method 3 - Wire one Button to Terminal 1, which sends L Ctrl, and one Button to Terminal 2, which sends L Alt.  Re-configure MAME so P1B1 is "L Ctrl OR L Alt".  This is the equivalent of what I was suggesting.

Did Randy say why he didn't think it would work?

[dema]

Method 3 - Wire one Button to Terminal 1, which sends L Ctrl, and one Button to Terminal 2, which sends L Alt.

[Tiger-Heli]

How does the computer distinguish between player 1 and player 2 when using a couple GP 49 Wiz's, and what keeps one from making a third encoder output the same thing as player 1?

Think of the GP-Wiz49 as a hacked gamepad.  The first one plugged in becomes gamepad 1.  The second becomes gamepad 2.  You can't plug the third one in and re-program it or tell the computer that both it and gamepad one are the same thing, but you can tell MAME^TM to use either gamepad one or gamepad 3 for the first player movement.

BTW, it would also be possible to do what you want using a KeyWiz Omni-Stick in 4-way mode on the classics panel, wiring it to the last 4 buttons of the first GP-Wiz49, and configuring MAME to recognize either input.  But you're back to microswitches, but it's a little less money.

[IntruderAlert]

But why do you need the 49 ways if you are going to have all of those panels?
I thought the advantage of 49ways was so that you wouldn't need to have so many controls.
Couldn't you just use the real controls for each panel and come out cheaper anyway?
Or am I missing something in what you have planned here?

[RandyT]

I think re-mapping MAME(tm) would work just fine, but it's only a solution for MAME.

If that is your only concern, then buy a 3rd unit and follow TigerHeli's advice.

Otherwise a manual switch is probably your best (and cheapest) bet.

RandyT

[dema]

How does the computer distinguish between player 1 and player 2 when using a couple GP 49 Wiz's, and what keeps one from making a third encoder output the same thing as player 1?

Think of the GP-Wiz49 as a hacked gamepad.

[dema]

But why do you need the 49 ways if you are going to have all of those panels?
I thought the advantage of 49ways was so that you wouldn't need to have so many controls.
Couldn't you just use the real controls for each panel and come out cheaper anyway?
Or am I missing something in what you have planned here?

The only reason I was planning on having a "classics panel" is because I play the traditional games with my right hand controlling the joystick. On my fighter panel I'd have to play most of the games with my left hand on the joystick, which doesn't feel right to me.

Maybe I'm just being difficult, but I figured this would cover most of the play contingencies I can think of.

[Tiger-Heli]

The only reason I was planning on having a "classics panel" is because I play the traditional games with my right hand controlling the joystick. On my fighter panel I'd have to play most of the games with my left hand on the joystick, which doesn't feel right to me.

Maybe I'm just being difficult, but I figured this would cover most of the play contingencies I can think of.

Actually, in thinking about this -

You could just set up the classic games in MAME to use either Joystick one or Joystick two on the SF panel, and then play the classic games with the right stick with your right hand.  Would be a lot simpler (and cheaper).

Re - 49-ways vs. Microswitches - Again, basically I was just trying to save you money.  I haven't tried the 49-ways, and don't really want to as I think they'd be a permanent addition (Randy introduced them with a money-back guarantee, which says a lot).  I have used the Prodigies (the Omni-Stik with top-panel switching) and I have NEVER had them make a mistake in 4-way mode.  I have made mistakes but not the sticks!!!

[dema]

How does it work when the encoders are wired up and first plugged in? Does it automatically assign the first encoder plugged in to the default player 1 controls in MAME, and then the second encoder to the second player's default controls? Or do you have to assign which controls are player 1 and 2? Obviously if it's auto-assigned you'd have to alter the MAME settings. If it's manually assigned or done through software then you should be able to make the joysticks redundant.

[Tiger-Heli]

How does it work when the encoders are wired up and first plugged in?

First encoder plugged in becomes Gamepad 1 in both Windows and MAME.

Does it automatically assign the first encoder plugged in to the default player 1 controls in MAME, and then the second encoder to the second player's default controls?

It automatically assigns Gamepad 1 to Player 1 and Gamepad 2 to player 2, b/c these are the MAME defaults.  They can be changed on a global or per-game basis.

Or do you have to assign which controls are player 1 and 2? Obviously if it's auto-assigned you'd have to alter the MAME settings. If it's manually assigned or done through software then you should be able to make the joysticks redundant.

As stated, you can make the joysticks redundant in the sense that both joysticks control the same player by altering the MAME settings.

[dema]

Tiger, thank you so much for all your help! I really appreciate all your insight and for being so patient with my questions.

[KenToad]

I'm bumping this month old thread rather than starting a new one because I'm just now working on wiring up a modular CP for my bartop.  What I'm wondering:

1.  If using two GP Wiz 49's on the same computer, will they change modes independently with the joy mode key--i.e. can I wire up a shared joymode key between the two encoders, then press joymode 1 on both encoders to get both joys to switch, or will pressing only joymode 1 on one encoder be enough to change both joystick modes?  I'm actually hoping that one will be enough.  Ideally, I would like to have joymodes 1-4 be the buttons for first player and joymodes 5-8 be the buttons for second player.  Obviously, if they switch independently, then I will need at least seven buttons per player to use all the modes that I plan on using (or get the software mode running). 

2.  The joymode inputs are listed on each encoder as: 

U₁, D₁, L₁, R₁ 
U₂, D₂, L₂, R₂

Does this mean that PC games that recognize joysticks will see these inputs as the directions for player 1 and player 2?  Well, probably not considering Tiger-Heli's comments on the encoders being recognized as gamepad 1 and gamepad 2, but I hope someone (maybe RandyT) can elucidate the meaning of this for me. 

Cheers,
KenToad

 

 

[RandyT]

I'm bumping this month old thread rather than starting a new one because I'm just now working on wiring up a modular CP for my bartop.  What I'm wondering:

1.  If using two GP Wiz 49's on the same computer, will they change modes independently with the joy mode key--i.e. can I wire up a shared joymode key between the two encoders, then press joymode 1 on both encoders to get both joys to switch, or will pressing only joymode 1 on one encoder be enough to change both joystick modes?  I'm actually hoping that one will be enough.  Ideally, I would like to have joymodes 1-4 be the buttons for first player and joymodes 5-8 be the buttons for second player.  Obviously, if they switch independently, then I will need at least seven buttons per player to use all the modes that I plan on using (or get the software mode running). 

Each controller has it's own joymode buttons (not to be confused with the Joymode input) that double as gameplay buttons.  If you want, you can have only one joymode button by wiring both controllers joymode inputs together. 

If you want few buttons on the panel, I suggest using the rotary mode or software switching.  Changing the mode on one via the hardware methods cannot change the mode on the other.

2.  The joymode inputs are listed on each encoder as:  ....

Ignore the markings on the board.  In the case of the GP-Wiz products, their only significance is to show where the wires go, using the documentation for reference.

If you want to use a conventional stick with any remaining inputs, just pick 4 of the unused button inputs, one for each switch, and configure your application accordingly

Let me know if this doesn't clear things up for you.

RandyT

[KenToad]

Thanks, RandyT, that explained it very well.

Cheers,
KenToad