Dragons Lair 3D - GOLD

[Lilwolf]

Dragon's Lair 3D Gold 4:49 PM - Jeff "Gimpy" Tom - Games: Action -  (6)
Ubi Soft sent word that Dragon's Lair 3D has gone gold and should be released in stores for both PC and XBox on November 18. Here's a slice from the pr:

True to the classic arcade phenomenon, Dragon's Lair sets players against the menacing dragon Singe and the evil wizard Mordroc to save the beautiful Princess Daphne.  With full control of Dirk the Daring, a valiant but clumsy knight, Dragon's Lair 3D players fight their way through the castle's treacherous, labyrinthine-like halls to overcome new monsters and obstacles lurking in the shadows.  Incredible new gameplay includes jumping over flaming pits, climbing ropes to fly across chasms, and battling swarms of the wizard's minions with Dirk's sword and crossbow. Other game features include:

[Dave_K.]

What the hell?  The PC verison is $29.99 while the Xbox/PS2 version is $49.99.  Hmmm...I guess its easier to rip off little Timmy than his Dad.

[Rahzel]

What the hell?  The PC verison is $29.99 while the Xbox/PS2 version is $49.99.  Hmmm...I guess its easier to rip off little Timmy than his Dad.

hahaha

[Howard_Casto]

Actually from what I've understood the pc and xbox versions are different.  Since all xbox games are on dvd discs, it is supposed to have far more levels than the pc version.  Also due to storage concerns the xbox version looks much better.  

[RandyT]

Actually from what I've understood the pc and xbox versions are different.  Since all xbox games are on dvd discs, it is supposed to have far more levels than the pc version.  Also due to storage concerns the xbox version looks much better.  

* Rant on *

What?  You mean not everybody has a DVD drive in their computers?

If this is true, this would be a major bonehead move on the part of UBI Soft.

Yeah, my Xbox is more powerful than my 2ghz, 512mb RAM, 4600Ti GForce4.

Gimme a break!

* Rant off *


Seriously, where did you hear this?

RandyT

[SirPoonga]

Actually from what I've understood the pc and xbox versions are different.  Since all xbox games are on dvd discs, it is supposed to have far more levels than the pc version.  Also due to storage concerns the xbox version looks much better.  

* Rant on *

What?  You mean not everybody has a DVD drive in their computers?

If this is true, this would be a major bonehead move on the part of UBI Soft.

Yeah, my Xbox is more powerful than my 2ghz, 512mb RAM, 4600Ti GForce4.

Gimme a break!

* Rant off *


Seriously, where did you hear this?

RandyT

I don't have a dvd drive on my computer, no need for one.  I have a very nice home theater system.

[rampy]

I think someone who frequents the forum works at ubisoft... maybe he/she can confirm... (xbox levels vs PC levels)

rampy

[RandyT]

I don't have a dvd drive on my computer, no need for one.  I have a very nice home theater system.

Dont we all (10' DLP Projection)

Not really my point.  Practically all pre-integrated systems made in the last year have them as standard, and the CD-R part of the drives are as fast as plain CD readers.   The prices are also down to the point where a plain CD-R doesn't make much sense anymore either.  Of course, if you only have 1 bay available in your system, that's another matter.

And if that's not enough, DVD writers are starting to come down in price.  Being able to store and access 4.7gigs (over 5 CD's worth) of data on a single disc has incredible merits.

Epic recently ticked a bunch of people off by releasing Unreal Tournament 2003 on 3 CD's instead of making a DVD version available, but even that's better than intentionally crippling the software to cater to the least common denominator.

RandyT

[d8thstar]

hey all, just got this message.  i can confirm that both the pc and box versions are the same level wise.

xbox advantages:  5.1.  also, the first home game ever at 1080i if you have the set.  and i can say, the game looks amazing on a big old hdtv...

[Lilwolf]

btw, the price difference will be in the packaging (1 DVD instead of multiple CDs) and that Microsoft gets a chunck of each game sold.

btw, Microsoft looses a hundred a box right.  I hear they make it up if you buy 5 titles... so about 20 bucks a DVD to old Bill

[d8thstar]

a lil off there.  the licensing fee isn't $20 for the xbox...

[Lilwolf]

Any clue what it is?  I read a long time ago about how many titles MS had to sell for to break even for each box sold... I thought it was 5, but if it was much less, then the amount they would have to sell if they lost a few hundred is HUGE

[rampy]

hey all, just got this message.  i can confirm that both the pc and box versions are the same level wise.

xbox advantages:  5.1.  also, the first home game ever at 1080i if you have the set.  and i can say, the game looks amazing on a big old hdtv...

Thanks for chiming in d8thstar and clearing that up.  

rampy

[Analog-X]

When they first Launched the XBOX at a press meeting or something, Microsoft Spokesman said that Microsoft was willing to Lose 2 Billion Dollars in the XBOX to make sure it is going to be ONTOP and leader of consoles.
 
If that is the case, than why dont take just give XOBX units away for free? and make money on the titles sold.

[rampy]

When they first Launched the XBOX at a press meeting or something, Microsoft Spokesman said that Microsoft was willing to Lose 2 Billion Dollars in the XBOX to make sure it is going to be ONTOP and leader of consoles.
 
If that is the case, than why dont take just give XOBX units away for free? and make money on the titles sold.

Oy... they were going to lose some ungodly amount, but it's not necessarily because they "made" xboxs for 300 dollars (or whatever - this is an example) and sold them for 200... They spent gazzillions on marketing/advertising the startup costs for production (although they did do something kinda inventive/new - they used a rent-a-fab facility )....   I'm gonna have to dig out that url from last year that discussed some of those points, but if I recall correctly...  

it's not just a sell the razor at a loss and make it up on the cartridges... it's trying to catch the adoption rate curve versus the economies of scale... (can you see I *almost* know what I'm talking about.. but not quite =P  )

rampy - will be searching for that illusive link he found on slashdot last year re: the real scoop behind console pricing points/profit margins...

[Howard_Casto]

M$ fully researched the gaming market and did exactly what they were supposed to do....

When you enter a gaming market your first system will undobtedly "fail" in profit terms.  The key is to get the system out there,  wrangle as many exclusive liscensing deals as possible, offer superior hardware and services, and eventually drive the competiton out of business.  The xbox will fail.... xbox 2, however, will dominate the market.  

So far m$ is right on target with this.... virtually every third party game recently available on the ps2 is now available on the xbox.  M$ also now has rare as well, which means all of the third party "nintendo" games will only be on the box.  With the impending buy out of capcom, it looks like m$ might also have exclusive rights to horror survival and classic fighter games.  Combine this with the fact that the xbox is the only system to have a decent online framework and it's pretty much the system to get, although the ps2 will still out sell it simply because it's been in the market longer and consumers fear change. (they are stupid that way)

So when the next systems come out m$ will have superior hardware, a strong, exclusive, game base, an estabished online network that is actually still useable in a few years (narrow band is dying, deal with it) capcom, rare, and m$ games.  

All ps2 will have is squaresoft, which is impressive, but still nothing special.  

So although m$ is loosing a ton of money now, in 5 -10 years it will be m$ vs nintendo with sony out in left field.  

This is how m$ works, they use thier infinate wealth to dominate any market they enter.  And this is why they have been able to give us the best gaming platform ever.  


Btw about the dvd issue.... according to polls at least, most gamers build their own machine.  These gamers often leave out the dvd drive as they are techies and have a home theater system (like me.)
Until the cd rom is completely obsolete games will always be on cd(s).  It's just like when games were on floppys long after the cdrom came on the market.  It got to one point where you needed 30+ floppys to install a single game.  
(or windows 95 ;-)  )

Let's hope it doesn't get to that.  

Btw if they have decided to include the same amount of levels then the game is super short or the pc version has far worse graphics.  You can't fit a 6 gig game on a 700mb disc, so something's up.  
 

[RandyT]

Btw about the dvd issue.... according to polls at least, most gamers build their own machine.  These gamers often leave out the dvd drive as they are techies and have a home theater system (like me.)

(snip.....)

Btw if they have decided to include the same amount of levels then the game is super short or the pc version has far worse graphics.  You can't fit a 6 gig game on a 700mb disc, so something's up.  

I was with you up until the above.  What self-respecting techie wouldn't have the latest gadgets in their computer systems?  A DVD-ROM drive and home DVD player are two different beasties.

Somehow it doesn't stand the test of reason that in a time when all videogame consoles have DVD drives, someone building the ultimate PC gaming platform wouldn't spend the extra $15 to put in a DVD instead of a CD drive.

As for the size or quality of the game, I fully expect that the PC version will have more than 1 CD, just like UT2003 and countless other PC games.

RandyT

[rampy]

Btw if they have decided to include the same amount of levels then the game is super short or the pc version has far worse graphics.  You can't fit a 6 gig game on a 700mb disc, so something's up.  
 

how do you know that the DL3d xbox version uses the entire 6 gigs? how do you know that it doesn't span multiple PC cdroms?  

re: consumers fearing change (stupidly)... well alot of it has to do with the adoption curve and price points.  I won't buy a plasma TV last year for 15 grand, and probably still not at 3 or 4 grand... this year... but once enough early adopters get the economies of scale going... i'd consider a 500 dollar model...

I won't buy an xbox at 199 or 150 either... (or a ps2 for that matter)... but when it hits the 99 price point... eh why not? =P

Now only if TIVO's would get a wee bit cheaper so I can afford both the TIVO and the lifetime subscription... at the same time.

rampy

[Trenchbroom]

Somehow it doesn't stand the test of reason that in a time when all videogame consoles have DVD drives, someone building the ultimate PC gaming platform wouldn't spend the extra $15 to put in a DVD instead of a CD drive.

Ultimate gaming platform maybe.  But at this time, if I'm trying to budget less than $1000 for a computer (which most people are I bet) I would save the $15 and drop the DVD.  Until real software is released on DVD or until the DVD burners drop below $100 it is not worth it.  I'll keep my movie watching in the living room.

In response to Howard's beliefs about the Xbox, I agree that everything they've done so far to get into this market has been correct.  However, they are still a long shot for many reasons:

1.  Limited success in Japan.  Don't care how much support they get from US/Europe, their sales suck in Japan and Japanese game companies are losing faith quickly. Without Japanese support the going will be especially rough if not fatal.  I fully expect another major purchase of a software house from MS, this time in Japan (i.e. Sega or Capcom).

2.  Momentum.  Latest figures from www.gamesindustry.biz shows that Xbox is third in Japan and US and second in Europe.  PS2 is running away w/ the show.  Now I'm seeing that Xbox is packing in an extra controller and 2 games w/ the system for an extra $100.  I predict by spring the pack-in offer will be free, which will put out some serious "Sega Saturn 3 pack special" vibes (not good).

We are past the point in this industry where a company can pull a "Sega Genesis"  or an "Amiga" and have success in one territory and fail in another.  This industry is too big now and too much is at stake for the software companies who must predict success 18 mos. in advance.  Momentum is a major factor in determining whether or not a software company will dedicate the scarce resources to writing or porting a game scheduled for release 1 1/2 years later.  

3.  I believe the Online Revolution for home consoles is still too early.  Not enough broadband out there in homes to cause people to buy the system purely because of online play.  Maybe by the next generation of hardware.  Since this is a major component of Microsoft's long-term strategy it will accelerate their slide.

Hey, I'm seriously hoping they succeed.  Best hardware should prosper and they have the best by a long margin.  We've got about 3 more years before the next round of hardware hits.  This Xbox will not dominate but if they have the stomach for some serious losses to gain mindshare (which only Microsoft could afford to write off $1 billion now to gain $20 billion in ten years) the next version just very well might.

[RandyT]

Ultimate gaming platform maybe.  But at this time, if I'm trying to budget less than $1000 for a computer (which most people are I bet) I would save the $15 and drop the DVD.  Until real software is released on DVD or until the DVD burners drop below $100 it is not worth it.  I'll keep my movie watching in the living room.

Obviously, anyone who is "budget conscious" will look to cut corners anywhere possible.  But we were talking about techie, gamer types.  Hell, I spent half of your system budget on my graphics card and joystick alone!  

I'm going to go way out on a limb here and speculate that if $15 is going to break the bank, those folks probably aren't going to be dropping $40-$50 on the latest software either.  So, it's kind of moot for them.

The DVD reader price point is pretty much at saturation levels (i.e. the cost of the mechanical stuff keeps it from getting much cheaper).  I expect that very soon, manufacturers will drop the CD reader only lines as it costs them little more to make them DVD compatible and the market for CD readers is dwindling rapidly.

And, as long as I'm at it, I'm going to predict that in 1 year you'll have your DVD writer for $99.  It's where things are heading.  To back this up you only need to look at history and the current price of blank DVD media.  It's now less than 75 cents a blank (DVD-R).  This means that demand and therefore production and competition are up.  There are also many hardware manufacturers in the game now competing for a chunk of that demand, which ultimately drives prices down.

Hey! I watch movies in my living room too! But when I want to peruse through an old issue of MAD magazine without figuring out which disk it's on, or look up information in a multimedia encyclopedia, or install a game or app that's 2.5gigs in size, I'll take the DVD.

RandyT

[rampy]

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2480001.stmx box losses (msft home division losses) in the news...

rampy

[Howard_Casto]

Somehow it doesn't stand the test of reason that in a time when all videogame consoles have DVD drives, someone building the ultimate PC gaming platform wouldn't spend the extra $15 to put in a DVD instead of a CD drive.

Ultimate gaming platform maybe.  But at this time, if I'm trying to budget less than $1000 for a computer (which most people are I bet) I would save the $15 and drop the DVD.  Until real software is released on DVD or until the DVD burners drop below $100 it is not worth it.  I'll keep my movie watching in the living room.

In response to Howard's beliefs about the Xbox, I agree that everything they've done so far to get into this market has been correct.  However, they are still a long shot for many reasons:

1.  Limited success in Japan.  Don't care how much support they get from US/Europe, their sales suck in Japan and Japanese game companies are losing faith quickly. Without Japanese support the going will be especially rough if not fatal.  I fully expect another major purchase of a software house from MS, this time in Japan (i.e. Sega or Capcom).

2.  Momentum.  Latest figures from www.gamesindustry.biz shows that Xbox is third in Japan and US and second in Europe.  PS2 is running away w/ the show.  Now I'm seeing that Xbox is packing in an extra controller and 2 games w/ the system for an extra $100.  I predict by spring the pack-in offer will be free, which will put out some serious "Sega Saturn 3 pack special" vibes (not good).

We are past the point in this industry where a company can pull a "Sega Genesis"  or an "Amiga" and have success in one territory and fail in another.  This industry is too big now and too much is at stake for the software companies who must predict success 18 mos. in advance.  Momentum is a major factor in determining whether or not a software company will dedicate the scarce resources to writing or porting a game scheduled for release 1 1/2 years later.  

3.  I believe the Online Revolution for home consoles is still too early.  Not enough broadband out there in homes to cause people to buy the system purely because of online play.  Maybe by the next generation of hardware.  Since this is a major component of Microsoft's long-term strategy it will accelerate their slide.

Hey, I'm seriously hoping they succeed.  Best hardware should prosper and they have the best by a long margin.  We've got about 3 more years before the next round of hardware hits.  This Xbox will not dominate but if they have the stomach for some serious losses to gain mindshare (which only Microsoft could afford to write off $1 billion now to gain $20 billion in ten years) the next version just very well might.

In response to your points about the xbox.  

1.  The Japaneese HATE american gaming company's.  Atari sales in Japan were horrible initially.  Only after the market was completely and totally saturated with the atari consoles (I'm talking 2600, not the crappy jaguar) did they begin to buy them.  I don't think an American console will ever do good in japan, period.  I believe it's a cultural thing, the same reason that the Japaneese won't buy American cars.  They even have alternative os's in Japan (gasp! no windows?) that do fairly well.   This is how resistant they are to Americanization.  

2.  The only reason the xbox doesn't have momentume yet is because they had to get game company's to make games, which took longer than expected.  With the groundbreaking titles due out this christmas things should pick up.  Also m$'s xbox is actually a platform for their online gaming network, which will make the real money once it's established.  Which gets me to your last point.  

I will agree with you statments about another "genesis" but the fact is sega was/is a rinky dink gaming company with limited capital.  This is m$, which literally has unlimited capital to work with, so there isn't any fear of them pulling out.  As successful as nintendo and sony have been, they have minimal capital compared to m$.  Even with sony's huge electronics backing, they are nothing in comparison.  M$ will stay until the other companys can't compete financially and give up, It's the m$ way.  I saw a projection that showed if m$ were to loose half of their money each year they would still turn billions of dollars in profit every year.  You have to remember that m$ isn't a normal "gaming" company.  They are the software company for the entire planet.  

3.  The online gaming revolution is now!  No it's not for the casual gamer yet, but who-ever establishes themselves first will dominate the market in the future.  Lets face it, for consoles the xbox is your ONLY online choice.  You can't successfully network a modern game on a modem connection which is what the cube and the ps2 are blindly trying to do.  Even if they support both broadband and narrow-band, the fact that some people are going to have horrible lag time is going to ruin the experience for everyone.  Over 20% of U.S. homes have broadband access at this point and that number is far greater in Europe.    

The news quote that rampy posted pretty much backs this up.  

[Davestar]

Btw if they have decided to include the same amount of levels then the game is super short or the pc version has far worse graphics.  You can't fit a 6 gig game on a 700mb disc, so something's up.  
 

Howard,
       If they had to make a separate version for HD video at 1080i, it can/would take a bunch of space 4.5 Gb / half hour or so.  The pc version would just be scaled/stretched.

[Trenchbroom]

In response to your points about the xbox.  

1.  The Japaneese HATE american gaming company's.  Atari sales in Japan were horrible initially.  Only after the market was completely and totally saturated with the atari consoles (I'm talking 2600, not the crappy jaguar) did they begin to buy them.  I don't think an American console will ever do good in japan, period.  I believe it's a cultural thing, the same reason that the Japaneese won't buy American cars.  They even have alternative os's in Japan (gasp! no windows?) that do fairly well.   This is how resistant they are to Americanization.

Since the VCS' salad days turned to financial death, videogames have been owned by Japan.  There is a distinctive difference between "computer" gamers and "console" gamers.  Many "computer" gamers are intrigued by the Xbox for it's online capability as well as all the other bells and whistles that can be coaxed out of that machine with a little hacking.

Ask any hardcore "console" gamer why they haven't bought an Xbox and the answer is simple:  no big Japanese games.  No boring RPG's or big-eyed, superdeformed characters.  NO prospect for Square or Enix to come on board.  To many in the U.S. and in Europe, console gaming IS Japanese gaming.  No Japan = no sale.  

Besides, if M$ has the patience and moulah to rule the world like you say, why can't they get it done in Japan?  That should be emphasis #1 for them, cultural bias be damned.  They know how important that market is, they realize they have failed miserably--they just need to figure out how many more millions of dollars it's gonna take to fix the mess they've made.

2.  The only reason the xbox doesn't have momentume yet is because they had to get game company's to make games, which took longer than expected.  With the groundbreaking titles due out this christmas things should pick up.  Also m$'s xbox is actually a platform for their online gaming network, which will make the real money once it's established.  Which gets me to your last point.  

I thought the whole purpose of the Xbox was that, due to it's base in X86 history, programmers were gonna be experts from the get go?  

3.  The online gaming revolution is now!  No it's not for the casual gamer yet, but who-ever establishes themselves first will dominate the market in the future.  Lets face it, for consoles the xbox is your ONLY online choice.  You can't successfully network a modern game on a modem connection which is what the cube and the ps2 are blindly trying to do.  Even if they support both broadband and narrow-band, the fact that some people are going to have horrible lag time is going to ruin the experience for everyone.  Over 20% of U.S. homes have broadband access at this point and that number is far greater in Europe.  

 

Broadband access is one thing.  Shelling out $50/month for your kid to hog the big TV in the family room so he can curse at the screen while playing Halo 2 with his  10 year old buddies is something else entirely.  Still think we are a couple of years from online console gaming going anywhere, but even with minimal success there should be good money in it.

[Analog-X]

When you enter a gaming market your first system will undobtedly "fail" in profit terms.  The key is to get the system out there,  wrangle as many exclusive liscensing deals as possible, offer superior hardware and services, and eventually drive the competiton out of business.  The xbox will fail.... xbox 2, however, will dominate the market.    

If what you are saying is true than Sonys Playstation was a "Fail" in profit terms because it was their first system.
 
As far as I know, Sonys Playstation was their first Video Game Console and at one point accounted for something like 39% of total profits that Sony made compared to their music and movie profits.
 
Just because someone releases a new system does not mean it will fail.  It depends on Timing, game titles, good hardware etc..etc..
 
when people buy consoles and spend a lot of money on the console and games, they expect it to last for a few years.  Its not like a PC where some people upgrade it every year.  
 
Look at the time line between Playstation 1 and 2 Release and Super Nintendo, N64 and the GameCUBE.
 
PS1 was inovative because it provided 3d graphics and CD-ROM which was high end back in those days.  the N64 was still in cartridge format which I belive is one of the reasons it hurt it.
 
There are a lot of reasons why a system will fail.
 
But just because its the first system does not mean it will fail.