4 Player Vs. 2 Player

[CPickler]

I plan on folloeing the recommendations in the book "Project Arcade" and building a 4 player control cabinet with a trackball.  (No Spinner)

What would you recommend as decent dimensions for the size of the control panel?  I am planning on players 1 & 2 having 7 buttons and 3 & 4 having 4 buttons each.

I was doing the design in cad, and then the problem of actually having humans standning there to use them came into my mind.  So I don't want to make the board too small.

Chris

[Dexter]

Standard, i.e. like a dynamo showcase/slikstik quad panel, is about 48" wide, 5-6" high (between top and base, and 18-20" depth IIRC.

Dexter

[Lilwolf]

Trouble is that a 4 player with a trackball with player 2 and 3 with extra buttons (for 2 player games) are hard to get everything in a realistic control panel. 

I would recommend this... Get some cardboard out and make one.  Draw boxes for joysticks and buttons ect. in the locations your thinking of.  Put it up on a table about the right size.  And see how comfortable all the controls are.  Make sure you can use the trackball without your arm sitting on joystck (really bad) or buttons (kinda annoying).  see if you can have 4 people sitting around it.  Ect.

You can also get some super cheap press board for 5 bucks for a 4x8 sheet at home depot.  And try it with real controllers... but this takes some extra time.

Anyway... once you have the smallest comfortable layout... you can decide if its too big. 

And if it is...

Then time to go with hotswap control panels or a modular design of some nature.  You can get a 4 player control panel with 4 buttons each in a much smaller control panel pretty easy when you don't care about the trackball and the extra SF type buttons.

[CPickler]

ok, thanks

[johnnysmitch]

Just gotta throw in: make sure you REALLY want to build a 4 player cab... I struggled to come up with a decent 4 player control panel with a trackball and spinner, and now I somewhat regret all the work/money I put into the extra controls for players 3 and 4... I build it for some harcore simpsons/xmen action, but I find that it just isn't nearly as fun playing these games as I remember, and since there's only a handful of 4 player games, my extra controls see hardly any use, and take up valuable space that could have afforded players 1 and 2 more room... don't want to be a drag here, just make sure you really want to go for the full-on 4 player layout, and consider other options, such as controller ports to allow for the occasional 4 player game with 3 and 4 using gamepads when needed.

[KenToad]

Just gotta throw in: make sure you REALLY want to build a 4 player cab... I struggled to come up with a decent 4 player control panel with a trackball and spinner, and now I somewhat regret all the work/money I put into the extra controls for players 3 and 4... I build it for some harcore simpsons/xmen action, but I find that it just isn't nearly as fun playing these games as I remember, and since there's only a handful of 4 player games, my extra controls see hardly any use, and take up valuable space that could have afforded players 1 and 2 more room... don't want to be a drag here, just make sure you really want to go for the full-on 4 player layout, and consider other options, such as controller ports to allow for the occasional 4 player game with 3 and 4 using gamepads when needed.

I second this opinion, as I haven't even been able to convince my hard-core gaming friends to play 4 player X-men, simpsons, Turtles, etc (I couldn't even get them to play Gauntlet--they just "inserted" coins until the game became a who-can-absorb-the-most-ghosts contest).  That just got repetitive after the first level or two, so, yeah, be sure you've got the players before you shell out the dough for the grosse panel.  That said ... I would love to build a bomberman 5-controller dedicated unit sometime in the future, the same expense I couldn't justify for the beat 'em ups.

KenToad

[Scott84]

The main reason why my cab will have a 4 player is because i want the 4player Super Nintendo Action...

[Bones]

I think it's pretty easy to justify a 4 player cab if you have kids.

[CPickler]

Well, Right now I live in a Fraternity House with close to 40 people.  I think it is possible to find 4 people who want to play some time.

[CPickler]

Also, Do you think a 19" monitor is big enough for 4 players?

[Lilwolf]

gauntlet used a 19" monitor and a pretty small control panel based on many of todays frankenpanels.

sure, 27" is better for some games... but 19" are better for others (really).  Playing robotron on a 27" monitor is hard to get to that zen moment of seeing the shots from across the screen without loosing focus on your guy.   I have a 27" and started using bezels for some games just because of that. 

btw, what cabinet do you have?  This can make a difference.

And last... You might consider a few nintendo original controllers with usb converters for far left and far right when you play with 4 players.   It can give you the room you need.

Basically... make sure you don't throw every controller you can in a space so small that you cant use any correctly. 

[CPickler]

I have a Double Dragon II cab from 1988.  I am going to make the CP large, 48" by 22" so people won't have to cram in.

[coasternuts]

I am currently going through this myself.  I have a 20" monitor and I am going for swappable panels.  First I think 4 player games using gamepads is kind of "yeah right".  If you can't get your friends/family to play with arcade controls, more than likely they aren't going to play with gamepads(*ducks for cover *).   

Having said that I am currently planning a 26" x 12.5" panel.  I could get 4 joys but little to no buttons.  Instead of 4 player, I am thinking of just making a 3 player setup with the necessary buttons for Guantlet/Simpsons/TMNT/Xmen/etc..   This should easily fit and finding 3 players should be a lot easier. Now I know why I had two kids.   

[NoOne=NBA=]

I'm still think the best solution to this is the two cabinet plan.
That way you can run two separate 2-P games, or one 4-P game using a KVM switch for the second cabinet.

I would bet that you'll find yourselves playing more separate 2-P games than 4-P ones.

[CPickler]

but for those of us with only one cab right now, a two cab solution isn't feasable

[johnnysmitch]

I'm gonna chime in again and say make sure you mock up your CP on cardboard or something first, and get 3 friends to 'try it out'. I didn't fully do this (didn't get people to stand around it with me), and just lucked out that it's comfortable enough to be playable. Still, my p1 and p2 controls are a bit closer than I'd ideally like (have to stand a bit off-center from the controls as they are now). You'd be wise to kick the outside controls off at a bit of an angle (like the 4 player commercial cabs do). Also, there's some debate as to how to mount these outside, angled joysticks - whether to line the axis up with the screen or the player; I did the latter and it plays fine to me, but some swear that it throws them off - just something to keep in mind.  Good luck!

[jer2665]

what's everyones take on the 4 player setup from the templates for the ultimate arcade II? 

I plan on doing a 4 player, and i'm sure I won't use the other 2 often, but really ,I don't plan on making a new cabinet often, and i gotta admit, the simpsons, ninja turtles and xmen are some of my favorite games, and i'd love to play 4 players. 

As I'm in a condo now, I don't have the means to build the cabinet yet, but i'm going to build the control panel now.  Anyone have experience with the 4 player set up set up on uaII?  is it comfortable?  i was thinking of going 7 buttons for player 1 and 2, and 4 buttons for players 3 and 4.  I was also thinking about possibly doing a 4/8 way switching joystick for one of the players, to play pacman or whatever else I want, but primarily this cab will be for action games and fighters.  What's recomended as the best 8 way for fighting games? the p360? 

Thanks for the help.

[johnnysmitch]

^^ If you're anything like me, you probably won't like having just one player's joysticks switchable - it'll have a totally different look and feel that the other three. Just something to think about.  If you DO decide to include a switchable somewhere, I recommend the T-Stick Plus - I've had no troubles with it, and find that it works pretty well in both modes.

[jer2665]

you're right, i didn't even think of the lack of symmetry.  I have a BIG problem with symmetry, or it drives me nuts.  maybe i could do 2 p360's for player 1 and 2 in the middle, then the tstick plus for players 3 and 4 on the outer sides of the panels.  but i think these should work well because I don't particularly like ball top and i don't want to have a separate 4 way.

[brandon]

having a 4 player cab would still come in handy for Smash TV , Total Carnage and any other dual joystick games.  as long as they aren't angled at 45 degrees like some 4 player cabs are.. but that's only 2 games and that hardly justifies having 4 joysticks just for that.. even though I love those two games

[gust0208]

Hey,

If you are interested at looking at a template for a 4-player panel that matches you description, just click on the link in my signature.  The downloads are for Visio, but I can export it to other formats if needed.  I found it best to start from a template and then make your changes/additions and see what you like.

Cheers,
Tom

[jer2665]

tom, yeah i had seen that signature in a different forum, and wanted to click on it, but i'm on a mac so i don't have visio.  Any mac friendly ways you may have it exported as?

[CPickler]

the microsoft website has a Visio viewer you can download.  I bet you could find a Mac Version if you scoured hard enough.

[gust0208]

Hello,

I scoured around and found a few programs that have free 30-day trials which can import Visio files which have been exported in the XML drawing format (which I can make).  So, I have added the links to my visio page and I have put up that I can send you full-size printable graphics files (jpg/gif/png/tif) of any of the templates.  Also, a link to the Visio Viewer for windows was added.

Hope this helps out those who are on a Mac or don't have Visio.  The graphics files print well on a large-format printer and can be used freely.  All art was found on the Arcade Art website.

Cheers everyone,
Tom

tom, yeah i had seen that signature in a different forum, and wanted to click on it, but i'm on a mac so i don't have visio.  Any mac friendly ways you may have it exported as?

[jer2665]

thanks a lot tom, I'll probably just download visio viewer or something at work on a windows box, and check it out that way.  I'll probably mix stuff i like about your layout with the stuff i like about the uaII layout they have (mainly cause I got the templates from mameroom.com for the control panel, since i don't trust my measuring and all that.  i think your layouts of the buttons across the top better that this one, but really what are the buttons?

i'll be honest, i haven't spent much time with mame on my computer because i can't stand playing with the keyboard, and i came across building an arcade cabinet as a fun project, plus i kept searching for a good mortal kombat II, or xmen, or simpsons 4 player, or ninja turtles 4player, and couldn't find anything for less than $500+ after shipping, and i'd much rather spend even more to play all those games and more in one.  so what are the best buttons to have besides the standard players buttons, i want a trackball, for centipede and golden tee, and i think i'll do a spinner, just for some of the older games i'm not familiar with.  To be honest, i've never played tempest or even tron.  i grew up playing mortal kombat, street fighters and various action games, but i think it'd be fun to get into some of the classics.  I was thinking of going trackball, spinner, 4 player start buttons, 4 player coin buttons, what buttons do i need for the trackball and spinner? and what other admin functions are best to have to run the game?  i'd like it as seemless as possible, but i'm going to build and UAII cab, and will be using the keyboard drawer for some of the main stuff, but i would like to use that as little as possible. 

sorry if these are stupid questions, like i said, i've read through the project arcade book twice, been reading the forums for a while, but haven't found answers to these questions, or at least don't know what to search for. 

thanks for all the help so far everyone.

[gust0208]

Hello again,

For picking a button layout, it does depend slightly on what games you plan to play.  The games I like are similar to yours, so that is why I removed the asteroids/defender extra button layouts.  As for trackball buttons, I choose three simply to emulate the three mouse buttons of your typical MS wheel mouse.  I placed them there so they could be used either with the trackball or with the spinner.  As for administration buttons (top row - 4 middle buttons) I have one for 'pause', one for 'exit', one for 'enter' and one for 'tab' to enter the dip switch menu.  If you are using an Ipac (as I will be) you can use the button-shifting option to have even more admin controls without clogging up your board with extra buttons.

For joystick buttons, it seems that it is consensus that no 4-player games require over 4 buttons, so I went with 4 buttons for players 3 and 4.  I went with the 7-button layout with a grid of 6 and the 1 angle button to allow playing of MK3 and the grid of 6 buttons works well for most games in general (especially fighters).  The 7th button makes for a great Neo Geo layout since the neo geo layout is basically 4 buttons spaced horizontally.

Hope the helps, and feel free to email me or message me with questions.

Cheers,
Tom

[jer2665]

first off cpickler sorry for hijacking your thread, hope all your questions were answered before i started asking all mine.

secondly, tom, yes i do plan on using an ipac, i'm thinking ipac4 for the extra inputs.  have you actually use your template to build a panel yet?

[Bones]

I would recommend this... Get some cardboard out and make one.