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Author Topic: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis  (Read 1512 times)

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M3talhead

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25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« on: March 22, 2005, 02:42:25 pm »
 Ok guys,

I'm finally back from my trip to Ireland, and now its time to get back to work (but can you really call building a MAME cab "work"!?)

So far, I've installed the new 8liners chassis in place of the old one by putting 2 screws into the side of the plastic board housing, securing it to the metal tray.



Then I spliced the degausing and the ground(?) wires (forgive my nomenclature ignorance) into their respective connectors. Oddly enough, a 16-14 gauge wire splice  fit perfect onto its neckboard!







Now I'm at the point where all I have to do is splice the RGB mess into a monitor connector (easy), attach the anode cap, clip on the horizontal and vertical plugs, and pray. Right?

This chassis does not have the same color wires for the H/V as the original. Would attaching a few of those 16-14 gauge connectors on the ends be better than a molex connector until I play around with them and find which ones go where?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2005, 02:51:41 pm by M3talhead »
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2005, 02:58:05 pm »
1) Be sure you have an isolation transformer connected before you power up.

2) Don't connect the game board to it (leave the RGB inputs disconnected) on your first power up just in case something goes horribly wrong

3) The #16 butt end connector fitting doesn't suprise me.. the newer chassis use hollow #16 pegs, vs the old chassis that ususally used wire-wrap solid posts that were around #20 size. Whatever works to make the connection :)

4) For the yoke... it appears that they are already labeled (at least I see a V).  Take the wires off those connectors and then measure them and figure out which are H and V first. (Sure you did that already). V will be 8-15 ohms OR 50-60 ohms, and H will be 1 to 3 ohms typically.

Then, why don't you use the RGBY yoke wire connector that came with the 8liners chassis?  Crimp on 4 of those butt end connectors (that would fit on the yoke connectors shown in your picture) and then run the RB to the horizontal pair and the GY to the vertical pair.  If you guess wrong between RB or GY (picture mirrored or rotated) then simply swap the individual ends on the yoke itself.  No muss, no fuss :)   Save the original yoke connectors if you want, but I'd just use the new wire from the 8liners chassis since your current ones arn't even soldered on like most.

M3talhead

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2005, 03:14:18 pm »
1) Be sure you have an isolation transformer connected before you power up.

Even though the 8liners chassis comes with a 120v plug? I thought I was just plugging it into an outlet once everything was assembled. Am I missing something about the 8liner specs?

Then, why don't you use the RGBY yoke wire connector that came with the 8liners chassis?  Crimp on 4 of those butt end connectors (that would fit on the yoke connectors shown in your picture) and then run the RB to the horizontal pair and the GY to the vertical pair.  If you guess wrong between RB or GY (picture mirrored or rotated) then simply swap the individual ends on the yoke itself.  No muss, no fuss :)   Save the original yoke connectors if you want, but I'd just use the new wire from the 8liners chassis since your current ones arn't even soldered on like most.

Thanks Guru. I think I was unclear as to which end I was describing. I meant to ask about putting the #16 connector on the ones that came with the chassis, not the old ones. That was my question.
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2005, 03:15:10 pm »
Cool! Hope you had a good time on your trip.  I've been waiting for an update on your project, please keep us informed.

-Ace-
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2005, 03:32:17 pm »
Quote
Even though the 8liners chassis comes with a 120v plug? I thought I was just plugging it into an outlet once everything was assembled. Am I missing something about the 8liner specs?

That's the problem... Both the 8liners (Jenh-Shinn) and the Alva/Video1963 (Wei-Ya) come with 110 volt AC flat wire plugs.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2005, 03:36:20 pm by MonitorGuru »

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2005, 03:56:18 pm »
Here's an overhead shot of the chassis before I installed it.



....and a few after I mounted it on the chassis tray...



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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2005, 03:59:20 pm »
This is off Genao.com

Quote
Specifications :
 
               DEFLECTION YOKE MATCHING IMPEDANCE :
               HORIZONTAL :
               LH 1.9 MH
               RH  ~2.2 OHM
            VERTICAL :
               LV 116 MH
               RV~ 54.4 OHM or RV ~13 OHM
 

               INPUT VOLTAGE : AC 110/220 dual  VAC 50/60 HZ

               POWER CONSUMPTION : 50 WATTS
               INPUT SIGNAL : R.G.B POSITIVE POLARITY 2.5~5.0VPP
               SYNC SIGNAL : H/V COMPOSITE NEGATIVE 2.5~5.0VPP
               MATCH SOCKET : 1.2,3,4
               H-FREQUENCY : 15 KHZ
               V-FREQUENCY : 60 HZ
               BANDWIDTH : 8 MHZ
               CONNECTOR : 5 PIN (R.G.B,GND,SYNC)
               DIMENSION(mm) : L265
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2005, 04:07:37 pm »
It appears to have a high frequency isolation transformer next to the power cable and fuse assembly.  However, again, I'm the extra safe/careful one... I'd leave the RGB wires detached, plug it in and test it to ensure there is no voltage differential between the frame or ground pin on the RGB plug and the neutral/ground of your wall outlet.  If none, then you should be safe.  I just don't want you to get hurt or ruin your board.

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2005, 04:27:43 pm »
See, this is why I love this forum.  :)

Thanks for the tips. I've got to get a few more #16s (I only have 3 at the moment) for the H/V plugs. I'm going to have to do it tomorrow though, as its already 10:30 at night here. You can count on me having a few more questions later on once I get the thing fired up.....hopefully.

I've got a better understanding of monitors than most (to the point where I know where not to stick my tongue), but I'm always willing to learn new things every day.

...Plug the monitor into the wall but do not have ANY other wires running from it (don't connect the game board) and don't make any part of it "grounded". 

Then take you digital multi-meter and set it on 200 volts AC and then place one connector on the metal frame and the other on the ground pin of your outlet.  If voltage is detected, then the monitor is not isolated.  Double check at 200volts DC and also check between the ground pin on the RGB connector as well.     Make sure you do not touch any part of the chassis, tube or frame with any part of your body (skin/damp clothing) while you're testing it before you're sure it's already got isolation. (At which time you can safely touch the RGB input connector, the metal frame, front of the tube, etc...
 

Just so I understand you correctly.....

I remove the ground pin from the neckboard (the one I crimped to a #16), plug the powercord into the outlet (without the RGB inputs connected to anything), and take the pos. on the multimeter to the outlet's ground and the neg. to the monitor's metal frame. If I get a voltage reading, I'm going to need an IT. If its nil, then I'm cool with hooking everything up. Am I correct?

I'm just wanting to understand and visualize it before I go screwing myself out of $96 +shipping (and maybe a hospital bill).
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2005, 04:54:54 pm »
No, no no no no...

Leave the monitor in complete WORKING condition. Do not leave anything detached from *within* the monitor.

Just don't connect the monitor to any other device through the video input cable.


Then plug the monitor in for the smoke test.  Make sure it turns on and the screen crackles to life, and has a glow in the tube and possibly a white screen (if the screen/drive controls are turned up enough).


THEN... without touching any part of the monitor yet.... see if the monitor is "hot".  You do this by seeing if the shields of the monitor are directly connected to the hot wire of the outlet.  You do this by carefully using your digital multimeter and simply placing one lead in the ground pin/screw of the outlet, and the other touching to any exposed metal part of the monitor, frame, etc.. 

If the monitor is "hot" there will be a large AC voltage between these two points, and if touched by your skin, you would feel tingling if not a big shock.

Test twice: Do it with the wall plug in one way, then again with the wall plug flipped upside down if it is not keyed for a wide (neutral) and narrow (hot) spade on the plug end.

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2005, 05:04:44 pm »
Think of all of this like this and it will make more sense as to what you're testing and why....

Take your car for instance. It has it's own internal power supply... a battery and alternator (generator).

Your car has an isolated power supply.. There is no correlation to earth ground to it at all--agreed?... To prove this, crack the dome light or headlight, and then run a wire from the + connector to a pipe in your house.... Nothing will happen. Likewise, nothing will happen if you run a wire from the -  to the pipe in your house. The car will still run and everything is happy. No sparks/etc..

Now lets pretend your car has a 110 volt AC battery in it instead of a 13V DC.   At the same time, lets call your - wires in the car "neutral" and the + wires "hot".     Let's pull that battery out and then "plug" your car into the outlet in your house (and of course we couldn't leave the alternator connected, but that's beside the point).

Will your car work? Yes it will.. it's being fed power and there is no part of the car touching the ground besides rubber tires. 

Now.. what happens if you run a wire from the - or + connector on your light socket to the pipe in the house?   YEP.. a massive short as you are completing the non-isolated circuit back to the source..earth ground.

Guess what happens if you touch the metal exterior of your car.... Yep.. you guessed it... you get a nice tingly feeling... And if you're sufficiently grounded... you'll get 110 volts running through you. 


Same principal in a monitor.  A hot (non-isolated) monitor has the shielding directly "attached" to the power source.   An isolated monitor is only "hot" in relation to the 2 terminals on the power source---the output of the isolation transformer, like a car battery.   

(In the previous example, of course, if you run a wire from the + of the lamp to the car battery -, you cause a short since it is going to the power source which is the battery, not earth).


Does that help explain things better?

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2005, 06:01:34 pm »
It appears to have an isolation transformer and switching power supply already (that's good!). The large yellow transformer with the copper band around it is the main transformer in a switching power supply.

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2005, 12:13:07 pm »
SUCCESS!!!

(sort of....)

I hooked everything up internally to the monitor. I double, triple, even quadruple checked to make sure I had every single connection properly wired, crimped, and in what I believed to be the right places. Then, after wiping the sweat from my brow, I closed my eyes and pluged it in.......

*crackle*......*crackle*..............*crackle*...... ~hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm~

Whaddya know, it worked! The picture came up (no RGB inputs though) and displayed a brilliant white horizontal line. Now I know I have a mix up at the yoke, but which inputs do I switch around?





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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2005, 12:23:55 pm »
You are displaying a horizontal line so that means the vertical section of the yoke is not connected properly.

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2005, 12:28:08 pm »
Great. Thanks Ken. I'll discharge the tube and swap the vert.
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2005, 12:35:58 pm »
Ok. I discharged and swaped the vert. terminals (G/Y), but still got the same picture.  Something else maybe?
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2005, 12:37:59 pm »
Remember that the vertical section resistance will be in the range of 9 to 16 ohms or 30 to 60 ohms. The horizontal section will always be in the range of less than 3 ohms.

Never connect the vertical yoke wires to the horizontal yoke or vise-versa as the chassis will be immediately damaged on power up!

You probably don't have the vertical section connected or there might be something wrong with either your chassis or the yoke or the connectors.

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2005, 12:53:24 pm »
Just so I dont do anything stupid, where should I test for resistance? I snapped a picture so maybe you could get a better idea of what I'm looking at.

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2005, 02:28:35 pm »
First.. I've posted it numerous times: DO NOT DISCHARGE A TUBE unless there is a another reason to disconnect the anode cap.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2005, 02:35:13 pm by MonitorGuru »

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2005, 03:12:24 pm »
Thanks Guru,

In regards to discharging the tube, I was told to always discharge it anytime you work around the yoke or cap. I'm still learning stuff about CRTs, so please, by all means correct me if I seem to be doing something wrong!

I checked the resistance on the vert. and hor. posts. The vert. measured 5.6, while the horizontal measured 1.6. After removing the connectors and examining the posts more closely, I noticed that it was my crimp job that caused the loss of signal to the yellow wire. When I was crimping the ends on to the wiring harness, I had to slightly flatten the tubes on all the connectors so the post could make sufficient contact. I just forgot to give that yellow wire the same love I gave the other 3.   :-X

Now I'm getting a relatively full white screen. I adjusted the brightness to a reasonable level, and played with the screen position until I got it to a point where, well......have a look......



The last 1 or 2 lines are flickering and redrawing themselves.......



........and the sides are experiencing a little barrel distortion.

I know someone on here has installed a few 8liners chassis before, and I thought it might have been you, but I could be mistaken. Do you know where the pincushion/barrel controls are located on this particular board?
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2005, 03:30:09 pm »
Don't work with the yoke with the monitor on... but it is totally isolated from the 30KV that the anode wire comes from.  So long as the chassis is working, the anode CANNOT bite you if you touch the yoke wires. (Think of it this way... would the monitor ever send 30KV through the yoke windings? Nope....it would fry them if it did.  The yoke has no physical "connection" to the tube... it sits wrapped around it.)  The key to discharge is simply this: If you need to detach the chassis as a whole (e.g. remove the anode wire), THEN you discharge.  If you're simply moving a yoke wire, replacing a fuse, etc... then you do not. (but DO ensure you're unplugged when you do it) When do you remove the anode wire? if you have to do a cap kit or swap the tube or replace other parts on the chassis requiring you to remove it to work on it.


I saw that you used spade connectors instead of a small butt-end connector. I presume you couldn't find a small enough butt connector to fit on those small posts then?   I figured it was a connection problem.  Take an emory cloth/fine sanding paper and polish the posts on the yoke to ensure a really good connection as well and try to make your crimp on the connector flat and even across the entire connector so there are more points of contact, not just one.  Or, once you have it right, drop some solder on the connector and yoke post to seal them if you do experience any yoke issues like a random snap of the screen smaller/narrower or something.


Yes, I did the multi-tube swap-a-thon with the 19" low impedence version of the 8liners (JennShinn) chassis 2 years ago posted on oscarcontrols' site.  Unfortunately neither his 19" or 25" chassis have a pincushion/barrel control. (Unless he's changed chassis recently)

If you could post a picture from top down of your chassis we might be able to detect if there is a control on it.  If there is, it *probably* is located somewhere close to the flyback (not the input/power side) . It should be a surface mount white potentiometer. May be labeled PIN or PC or something like that.  However, again, I don't think the 8liners have adjustments for that.  The WeiYa chassis from Alva/Video1963 are supposed to on their 25"+ ones but not on their 19" ones.

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2005, 03:57:04 pm »
As it turns out, I was staring at the pincushion pot the entire time, but couldnt see it, because it was tucked away behind several other components. After adjusting the pot to its max setting, the screen fit the tube perfectly.
 




The second image is a shot of a jumper I noticed, but dont know what its for. I looked for schematics on Vic's site, but couldnt find anything, and then when I tried to access Jenshinn.tw, it timed out.

Just curious. Like I said, I'm learning as much as I can. By trade, I'm a Net/Sys Admin, not an EE.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2005, 04:13:16 pm by M3talhead »
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2005, 04:13:57 pm »
It appears that is a jumper block that controls combined sync versus separate sync.

With the position it's in now, H+V means you're sending both the horizontal + vertical sync signal on the same SYNC pin input.   If you moved it to the other setting, then it means you need to send the H in on one wire, and V in on the other.  It basically enables some part of the circuit to split the sync appropriately if you're combining them.


However, as you already know, your input cable only has 5 wires.. RGB Ground and Sync... But if you look at the boarrd, just to the right of your input bundle, (closer to the HV jumper we're talking about), you'll see there is a place to solder a 6 pin connector in. If you looked at the traces underneath, the single pin on the one you have connected probably goes to the last pin on the one thats not soldered in, then to the HV jumper block, while the V alone goes to the V side of the jumper block from the unsoldered connector space.


Make sense?   Summary: Leave the jumper alone... it's set correctly

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2005, 04:52:33 pm »
Awesome. Thanks Guru.

One last question, and then I'll quit bugging you. With the RGB and synch wires coming off the chassis, I should be able to splice them into a monitor cable using the following pinout, correct??



VGA / SVGA
   
15pin Connector                                     Monitor chassis
1    red                                                           Red
2    green                                                         Green
3    blue                                                           Blue
4    ID bit                                                             -
5    n/c                                                              -
6    red ground                                                -
7    green ground                                              -
8    blue ground                                                -
9    n/c                                                              -
10    ground                                                          -
11    ID bit                                                            -
12    ID bit                                                            -
13    H sync                                                          White
14    V sync                                                          Black
15    n/c    
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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2005, 05:47:21 pm »
Not quite.  Black wire on chassis is ground. White is combined HV sync. You should tie the 3 color grounds to the wire ground and send all to the chassis input ground.


1 - Red - Red (1)
2 - Green - Green (2)
3 - Blue - Blue (3)

6 - Red Ground   \
7 - Green Ground \
8 - Blue Ground    +--- Black (4) -- Ground
10 - Ground         /

13 - H Sync \____  White (5) -- Combined HV Sync
14 - V Sync /

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Re: 25" monitor + new 8liners chassis
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2005, 11:04:07 am »
Ok, thanks. Thats going to be an easy job.

Here's another question.

Since the monitor is not grounded to earth (its a 2 prong AC plug), will mounting a ground wire on the frame and attaching it to a grounded point on the PC's powersupply damage the chassis?? Were the JenShinns designed for this??
Signature tags are dumb.