Button Layout - Ergonomic vs Standard

[norax]

Hey Guys,

I'm almost ready to start on my CP but I can't decide which button layout to use. Most people seem to use the standard two rows of three with the optional thumb button. Then I've seen some people who use that layout but layer the buttons which looks like very ergonomic.

I've made two working single player test CPs to try both layouts. After playing hours on both I'm still undecided. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Heres some pics of the two layouts...

[tommy]

Its really up to you and what seems more comfortable , i use the straight 3-3.

[dmsuchy]

I use the straight lines also, I think it is a better arrangement for the most games, specially the old school ones.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Is your "ergonomic" layout actually ergonomic (more comfortable, with less stress on your wrist, fingers, etc...)?

Turning my hand sideways to use a layout like that is actually LESS comfortable to me, and causes MORE stress on my playing hand.

Also, on a 2-P cabinet (which isn't the case here, but should be noted), the ergonomic layout will cause player 1 to turn his elbow out toward player 2 to get comfortable.
This may cause a friendly game of Street Fighter to reach a whole new level of reality.

[pmc]

I had trouble deciding that too. I think that the angled arrangement is nicer looking though so I went with straight-lines (versus a curve), but slightly angled up and to the right.

- pmc

[paigeoliver]

The arcade manufacturers know what is best, the straight Streetfighter layout or the candy cab layout (which puts the longer row on top with a slight curve) is best.

[Mojo2000]

A couple of ideas. I'm not a physiotherapist per se, but I've been involved in enough different types of physical activity that I observe certain things...

1) Everybody's anatomical and physiological layouts are just slightly different, even though fundamentally the basic components are the same.

2) When you really think about it, are you really relaxed when you play a challenging videogame, rather than a relaxing one? Various parts of your body might tense just a little bit, bracing for a period of fierce button-mashing or stick-twirling. The more I think about it, the more the medial angle of those buttons makes sense. I'm not sure I would use that design myself, since I plan to use a mild, symmetrical curve. But I do see it as usable.

[Gunstar Hero]

Straight.

The ergo layout always throws me. 

[Flinkly]

i'm sorry guys, but that straight row stuff looks goofy to me.  can't stand it.  ergonomical the whole way. 

i tested it alot and let my fingers lay where they wanted on a piece of paper and made an arangement off of that.  looks good and feels good.

[Xiaou2]

   Well, try to play an intense game of Street Fighter IIce, or Killer Insticnt.   

  Its one thing to keep your fingers on a set of curved buttons and keep them there... but entirely another issue when haveing to move them up/down to the other row of buttons.

  Usually, you end up missing the button because you 'think'  its in a place that it is not.   You obviously do not have the time to look.   But with the buttons all lined up, its easy for your mind to know where the buttons are much easier.

 Look at your keyboard... its the greatest example of why buttons are placed all in a row. 

  Your fingers while some longer than others... is very comfortable with them in a slightly coiled bent postion in the straight line.   In fact, the coiled back position give you an advantage, as its quicker than from a  stretched out position.

 Imop, the supposed ergo placement looks ridiculus as well.

 btw - I did try an ergo layout once... so i speak from experience.  Many others will tell you the same, based on the same.

[JB]

btw - I did try an ergo layout once... so i speak from experience.  Many others will tell you the same, based on the same.

Problem with ergonomic keybaords is they're slanted for a specific SIZE of hand.
Diffrent people need diffrent slants to actualy be ergonomic, instead of just looking funny.

[Xiaou2]

jb - i was refering to an ergo control panel button layout i built long ago.  Not a keyboard.

 Same as posted, layed the fingers in a line on paper and drilled to match.

  Major problems with missing the buttons or hitting the edge of the button instead of the middle.... so scrapped it.

[Xiaou2]

 btw - if you were really going to go 'ergo'   youd place the joystick at a 45 degree angle to match your arms line direction - which would ease the wrist strain....

  And why dotn you see that done much?   Because the same situation.   
You end up thinking that up is Up and not at a 45 degree up.    So you end up pressing up+left instead of up.

   

[TalkingOctopus]

After logging many many hours on both configurations, I don't really think it matters either.  I too am undecided.  I would probably just go with the ergo version of the street fighter layout -- the one with the middle buttons (2 and 5) a bit higher than the others.

[cholin]

Somebody said here a little while back to look at your fingers when you type.  When you rest them, they're in a straight line, which is natural to you.  Therefore, although I agree it looks crappy, you should use straight buttons for more compatability.

[quarterback]

Somebody said here a little while back to look at your fingers when you type.

[daveg2000]

The arcade manufacturers know what is best, the straight Streetfighter layout ... is best.

I have to agree here.

[JB]

jb - i was refering to an ergo control panel button layout i built long ago.  Not a keyboard.

 Same as posted, layed the fingers in a line on paper and drilled to match.

  Major problems with missing the buttons or hitting the edge of the button instead of the middle.... so scrapped it.

Ah. Sorry, thought there was a tangent going on.

[Paul Olson]

This button layout has worked good for me.  The buttons are angled a bit because that is the way my fingers are angled when my hands are that close together.  Quite a few people have played on this panel, and no one has ever said anything about the button layout, so I would make it comfortable to you.

Paul

[Xiaou2]

"Quite a few people have played on this panel, and no one has ever said anything about the button layout"

 Maybe your friends didnt want to hurt your feelings : P

 

[Mojo2000]

Sega's Saturn Virtual Stick lives on in PC-USB, Xbox and PS2 forms. You will notice how the buttons are not in straight planes. Didn't somebody here say that the industry knows what's best for the players?

http://www.lik-sang.com/image.php?category=54&products_id=6336&img=pc-virtua-stick&show=5

The thing I disagree with is the use of convex buttons. Now THAT I absolutely won't stand for.

[Will]

My test cp features a ergonomic layout custom made for me and it SUCKS.In my street fighter set up of six buttons I decided to try moving the middle button(s) a little bit up maybe about a quarter inch.I thought that since my middle finger is obvious a little longer if I had it raised just a smidge above the other buttons in would be more comfortable.....It's not,it doesn't work well in games and is a bit unorthodox.For instance your playing super mario bros and your holding down the run button and you reach for jump button with your middle finger I had a tendency to reach for a button that was right next to it that wasn't there.So needless to say my efforts to try something different failed but I'm glad I tried it.I wont have to wonder about it,but yes the military straight line is the way for me.

[pmc]

This thread is making me change my mind a bit.

I don't like the ergo look at all (middle buttons shifted up but the others straight). And reports seem to indicate that playability suffers. But it seems to me that straight buttons that are slightly inclined up and to the right works the same way as straight and horizontal ("military" as someone said) except that you have to bend your elbow out a little bit to line up your fingers.

I did this intentionally to get a 1-2-4-5 button arrangement that approximates the diamond pattern on a Playstation or Dreamcast while still preserving a 1-2-3-4-5-6 Street Fighter layout.

Seems that this is all folly. The diamond isn't really there since the angle cannot be extreme enough. It's more of a rhombus (remembering my geometry). All you get is sacrificed elbow room.

But I still like the angled look better than straight. Maybe just angle them a little just for looks...

[Nocturnaloner]

This is like one of those "less filling!"  "tastes great!" commercials.  It could go on forever, with no real answer.  The only thing to do is build a test panel (or two!) and figure it out for yourself.  I recommend using a 'sandwich' of 2 pieces 1/4" hardboard with 4 or 5 inch lengths of 2x4 in between at the corners.  Drill all the holes you want, wire it up, and check it out.  No one is ever going to logically explain away what feels right for someone else.