Questions regarding the SlikStik (plus an introduction)

[Bursk]

Hello everyone.  This is my first post here, as I've only recently discovered BYOAC.  It's likely to be quite a long post, so I apologise in advance.

I've always loved arcades, and used to spend a great deal of time (too much I imagine) playing games when I was little.  I remember the great feeling I had when I beat Bad Dudes vs. Dragoninja, and how upset I felt when I lost the two-player fight at the end of Double Dragon (I would have been about 8 at the time).  As a result I've always wanted my own arcade machine.

I spend a lot of time playing games in Mame and Nebula, but also like playing the classic SNES and MegaDrive/Genesis games like Zelda and Sonic.  I also like playing Dragon's Lair in Daphne.  I'm into emulation in quite a big way I suppose, but it's just not that great when you're sat in front of your computer with a joypad in your hand.

So, I decided I'd look into maybe 'making' an arcade cabinet, which would really just consist of a PC inside a wooden box that is shaped like an arcade cabinet.  I realise it may go against the general trend on these boards, but I prefer to run my games with enhanced visuals.  I really like the way Street Fighter II looks on my PC monitor, running at 1280x960 in Nebula, with 2xSAI 75% Scanlines.  It may not be very authentic, but it's the way I prefer to run things.

I'm (unfortunately) not any good with woodworking/wiring up controls etc and quickly realised that my best bet would be to simply buy an arcade controller (e.g. the SlikStik) and have someone help me make an empty cabinet.  I could then put a PC and a PC monitor (along with some speakers, a keyboard etc) in the arcade cabinet then hook them all up.

This would realistically be the best way (for me personally) that I could go about making an arcade cabinet to play my games the way I want.

I made a post on the Retrogames General Emulation board because I had a number of questions regarding the SlikStik.  Only one person has responded so far, and he wasn't entirely happy with the way things went.  Here's the link:  http://www.retrogames.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showpost.pl?Board=retrogen&Number=63668&page=0&view=expanded&mode=threaded&sb=7#Post63668

I also tried Emailing the SlikStik team because I had some further questions, this time regarding the ability to remap keys to whatever I wanted, mostly through using the Shift function.  I tried the addresses 'info@slikstik.com' and also 'jmascari@instantlink.com',
but I got an undeliverable mail message on both addresses.

Maybe someone here could answer my questions.  Here's the Email I sent:

'Hello.  I've started looking into making an arcade cabinet for myself, which would basically consist of a PC, a PC monitor, and an arcade controller.  I would effectively just be running a PC inside an arcade cabinet.
 
The most impressive controller (by far) that I've seen so far is yours.  I wasn't overly keen on the look of the HotRod or X-Arcade, as I thought things looked a little cramped.  If I'm going to do this project at all, I might as well do it properly.
 
Anyway, I am in the VERY early stages of my planning, and it could well be around 12-18 months before I order a SlikStik.  However, I do have a couple of questions that I'd like answers to right away if possible.
 
The two main emulators that I use are Mame and Nebula.  I've looked at your 'classkeycfg.jpg' and can't see myself having a problem remapping the keys in Mame (if they need remapping) and Nebula to match those on the SlikStik.
 
There are some keyboard commands that I will definately want to have available to me via the SlikStik, that aren't currently assigned to the 'classkeycfg.jpg'.  For example, I often use F10 and F11 in Mame, to display the FPS and also to speed up the FPS.  In Nebula, it's F9 to display the FPS and Scroll Lock to speed it up.
 
I also find myself using the F2 and F3 keys, to access the dipswitch menu and reset the machine.  I also use the Tab key in Mame and the Escape key in both Nebula and Mame.
 
I understand that I can assign a 'shift function' to a particular key (Start 1 by default I believe).  So, I've been looking at that I-Pac software which has 26 programmable inputs.  I am not entirely sure how this works though.  Does this mean 26 assigned inputs INCLUDING those already assigned to the SlikStik?  Will I find that I won't be able to assign all those key presses that I mentioned above (i.e. F2, F3, Tab, F10, F11 etc), because the I-Pac software doesn't have enough programmable inputs?  Or can I assign 26 inputs in ADDITION to those already assigned, and detailed in the 'classkeycfg.jpg'?  I do of course want to assign these additional inputs as 'shift function' key presses (e.g. I'd hold down Start 1 and press, say, the key assigned to '7' in the 'classkeycfg.jpg', which would then funtion as F11 instead of 7).
 
I hope I've managed to explain my question properly.  I appologise for the amount of information, but I wanted to be clear in what I'm asking.
 
I was also wondering if you could give me a rough idea of delivery prices for shipping to the UK.
 
I look forward to your response.'

Apologies for the length of this post.  I just have some many questions that I'm finding it a bit hard to know where to start.  At least I think I've come to the right place.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

[rampy]

Just a random thought.. If you don't feel comfortable creating an arcade cabinet from scratch (or control panel) why  not start with an existing cabinet that has the layout you'd like?... Since you want to use PC like resolutions, you would need/want to get one of those WellsGardner uXXXX SVGA monitors in arcade mount (so to speak)...

*shrug* just a thought... you could mix and match these ideas... Slick stick + existing cabinet + WG XGA arcade mount monitor = to possibly be what you are looking for without a ton of construction...

rampy

PS I lost in the two player dual at the end of double dragon too when I was kid...

[Bursk]

Thanks for the reply rampy.  I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you say I should 'start with an existing cabinet that has the layout you'd like'.  Do you mean try to find an empty cabinet which is the right size for fitting a SlikStik and monitor in it (along with a PC in the bottom section)?  I suppose that would be easier than building the empty cabinet myself.

Would an existing (and presumably genuine) arcade cabinet have enough space for a PC in it, as well as a SlikStik attached to the front?  I'm afraid there aren't any arcades around where I live anymore, so I can't really picture how big your average arcade cabinet is.

With regards to that WellsGardner uXXXX SVGA monitor you mentioned, do you have a link to some details on the monitor?  I'm currently using a 19" Iiyama Vision Master Pro 450, and was thinking about putting this in my cabinet.  I suppose I pictured basically having a shelf which the monitor would sit on, then have a wooden frame in front of the monitor, covering everything but the screen (the frame of course being the same colour as the rest of the cabinet).  If this wooden frame was easily removable, or had a removable panel at the bottom, I'd be able to easily access the controls at the front of my monitor (to degauss and so on).

I have in no way set my mind on how I'm going to make this whole project, so would be grateful for any ideas and suggestions.  I would imagine that there is usually a better way of doing things than a person would first think.

Do you have any opinions on the layout of the SlikStik rampy?  Maybe if that 4way joystick was moved forward a bit, I wouldn't have a problem with having to reach to the back of the board.  Those 5 blue buttons at the top of the board could go, as I wouldn't need to use them.

Thanks again.

[rampy]

Sorry If I confused you.. I had several trains of thought going there and might have derailed =P

At first I was thinking using an existing "real" arcade cabinet that already had roughly the same control panel layout as you'd want... assuming such a beast existed... and then maybe you'd only have to modify it to add a spinner and or trackball if either of those were apart of your master plan =P

but, you also want to play games at some sort of PC resolution... so I was thinking of the wells gardner vga arcade monitor (link forth coming in a sec)... you can of course make some sort of mount for your PC 19" monitor but that would require a slight amount of macgyvering wood working (it *shouldn't* be all that hard, but you sound power tool averse.. so I'm keeping that in mind)

uhm... I can't speak to the slick stick layout... I built my own, although it's a work in progress (you can sorta get a gist of my process from a haphazard image gallery HERE ... just a piece of plywood really with holes...  in a T shape because I wanted room for the trackball (installed but not pictured on the site yet)

gonna go dig up a link or two...

rampy

EDIT 1  ok here's a link (hope it works) from WG's site for the u3100 series that people who want the convenience of SVGA plug with an arcade chasis form factor...   I wonder if they sell larger versions... *Shrug* i'm sure they do somewhere... or there's an equivalent...

BTW generally there's room in a real arcade cabinet for a PC (it helps to remove all the non-essential orginal stuff, i suppose, if it's way too tight)  some people don't use a PC case when MAME-ing a cabinet... they just mount the PC motherboard on a small  riser or plastic feet or the like...  *shrug* depends on the cabinet of course...

EDIT 2:  FYI there's many ways to skin the "real arcade controls to play MAME" cat.  There was nothing wrong with your orginal idea... I'm just offering alternatives.  Several people who frequent this forum like to build *everything* from scratch... Some swear by using orignal arcade monitors only... others like SVGA (especially for emulating vector games or playing golden tee PC version)...  did you read kevin steeles review of the slick stick and his cabinet it's kinda like what you seem to want to do... (drop in a prebuilt cp on to a cabinet... )

I'd spend a day browsing the project examples here as it's tremendously helpful in figuring out WHat you like best/want to do and HOW to approach it... any other guidance/specifics you need you can try to get by asking here in this forum...

good luck...

[hyiu]

I guess you should start looking around on this site checking out other people's done cab...
that should help you in making decision... check their web sites... a lot of times... the people here who put up websites.. will also have a writeup on what's good.. what's bad... and most importantly... why they did it this way...

I think getting an empty cab should be easier... if you're up to it financially... you can buy a finished cab... but that's a lot of $$.... but I believe there are examples in this site where they buy an empty cab, sand and repaint, and modify the arc where they put the control panel, and slap on a pre-made panel.... this should be possible....

a 19" PC monitor might be a little too small for a 4 player cab... (but of course... if that's all your budget can sequeeze... that's life...)

whether pc monitor or arcade monitor.... depends on what other games you play....

other than silkstick, there're also a few other choices... mas system, x-arcade... etc... look around... at the right price, guys here might actually will build something for you custom !!...  

ps: I don't know how bad you are with powertools... but if you get an empty cab and work on it.... it is not too bad....


hope it helps....    

[rampy]

one small note: if you get the ipac 4 I'm sure you'll have plenty of inputs...

Another thing to note is that many people spend a lot of time tweaking (or writing their own!) front end for their cabinet so they don't have to necessarily constantly look for the keyboard to hit a special "F" key...  

The shift function for the ipac also would make it possible to execute key presses from a control panel that you sometimes use... without putting a hundred buttons on your control panel (unless you WANT 100 buttons)...

rampy

[Dink]

Welcome aboard!

The questions you are asking of SlikStik concerning the IPAC controller, info can be found at the source for the IPAC, at www.Ultimarc.com

This is a good place to start: http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac5.html They have a lot of information, FAQs, and instruction on their website and some forums for unaswered questions.

As an aside, I use many different emulators with my SlikStik (Daphne, Zinc, Project 64, Stella, U64, etc).  The SlikStik comes with a keyboard pass thru connection.  I slide the keyboard out on its drawer under the SlikStik and press the key I need.

[Tiger-Heli]

Hi Bursk, welcome aboard, can't help you much with the cabinets, but regarding the slikStik, you might want to check this thread:

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=2992

Based on the first review and the person that responded to your post on Retrogames, and someone else I know who has one, I am forming this opinion of them:

Their component choice is top-notch, their finish is pretty good, however, their support and delivery timeliness is shoddy, and their build quality is somewhat suspect.  Also, they are quite expensive for what they are offering.

If they had exactly what you wanted, I might consider ordering from them, but since you want function buttons that aren't included (new buttons, new wiring) and they charge a lot for customizations, I would recommend going elsewhere.

Chris at OzStick has always been helpful to me, as has Richard Ragon at Hanaho.  I don't know if they would be able to do a custom layout to your liking, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.  (OzStick uses the I-PAC, Hanaho uses a proprietary input).

I understand that I can assign a 'shift function' to a particular key (Start 1 by default I believe).  So, I've been looking at that I-Pac software which has 26 programmable inputs.

Standard I-PAC has 28 (not 26) programable inputs, plus 28 available Shifted inputs.

 I am not entirely sure how this works though.  Does this mean 26 assigned inputs INCLUDING those already assigned to the SlikStik?  Will I find that I won't be able to assign all those key presses that I mentioned above (i.e. F2, F3, Tab, F10, F11 etc), because the I-Pac software doesn't have enough programmable inputs?  Or can I assign 26 inputs in ADDITION to those already assigned, and detailed in the 'classkeycfg.jpg'?  I do of course want to assign these additional inputs as 'shift function' key presses (e.g. I'd hold down Start 1 and press, say, the key assigned to '7' in the 'classkeycfg.jpg', which would then funtion as F11 instead of 7).

If you want to use "Shift Functions" for the inputs you should be safe.  One caution, though, you can hit these accidentally - i.e. you are playing 2-player Top Gunner, you get killed and press the 1P Start to continue play at the same time your opponent presses the 2-player start to continue.  I-PAC interprets this as ESC and and your game ends.  The more shift keys you use, the more likely you are to have problems with this.

[Bursk]

rampy
'power tool averse' eh?  Heh, I suppose you're right.  I do know a couple of people who could help me with some simple woodworking though, if necessary.

Thank you for the link to Kevin's MAMEFrame.  The very first picture there is a good example of what I'm concerned about with the SlikStik layout.  Look how close the blue 4way joystick and spinner are to the monitor.  I'd really prefer them further forwards so that I wouldn't have to lean towards the monitor.  I think Kevin's machine is really good though, and looks pretty close to what I'm thinking of doing.  

Maybe I could find a local carpenter to build the cab for me if I gave him the measurements.  I would ideally like a little more distance between the controls (and therefore myself) and the monitor.  My 19" monitor is roughly 25-30" away from my eyes when I sit at my computer and play games.  I would like it to be at a similar distance in my arcade cabinet.  If I had a custom built cabinet I suppose I could have the monitor as far away from the SlikStik as I liked.

I will take a look at WG's site.

I've had a look at a number of project examples, but there are just so many of them that it's a little overwhelming.

Oh btw, I liked your haphazard image gallery.  It's certainly practical.  I noticed that you are going for a slightly curved layout for the buttons.  Did you choose this because it's easier on the fingers for fighting games?  I must admit that 3 buttons all in a straight line (like on the SlikStik) looks a little uncomfortable, considering that most (non-mutant) people's middle finger is longer than their first and third fingers.  Maybe the SlikStik folks would be willing to alter their button layout for me to one like yours.


hyiu
Thanks for the advice.  I'm just looking for a 2 player setup.  I'm thinking that I may eventually wish to go for a 21" monitor instead of my 19", but that'll only be if I find myself with a little more money to spare.  I'll most likely just end up sticking with the 19" (which should be fine for a 2 player cab, right?).


Dink
Thanks for the welcome.  I noticed that you found my post on the Retrogames board.  Thanks for the links to www.Ultimarc.com.  I had a look on there, but I still don't understand if the 28 inputs includes shift functions.  I really don't want to have to slide the keyboard out on its drawer under the SlikStik if I don't have to.

I find myself using the keyboard commands quite a bit when I play, because I use various different emulators, just like yourself, and would find it a bit of a pain to have to constantly (well, not exactly constantly) move away from the SlikStik, slide the keyboard out, press a button, then slide the keyboard back in.  I'm sorry if I sound rude, but that's not really the way I want to do things (if I can avoid it).

The perhaps better explain exactly want I want to do, I thought I'd list the keys I usually find myself using:
o+k (as in 'ok' in Mame)
F2
F3
F4
F9
F10
F11
F12
P
Scroll Lock
Pause/Break
Tab
Escape

These are all, of course, in addition to the usual 1+2 player coin and start buttons.  Could I easily assign the above 14 buttons as Shift functions, or would I need to upgrade to the 56 input I-Pac?


Thanks a lot everyone for the responses.  I was starting to get a little despondent when I found that I was unable to Email SlikStik, and I have been gettting a little overwhelmed by all of this.  There's just so many options it's been difficult knowing exactly where to begin.  At least now though I feel as if I'm making progress.  


Tiger-Heli
I was just about to post a reply when I refreshed the page and saw that you'd responded too.  What a helpful bunch you all are!  I've seen Kevin Steele's review, plus of course FireGeek2's post on Retrogames.  I must admit that I am currently undecided about the SlikStik.  Despite my previous postings, it is still early days and I'm keeping in mind that I may be able to find a more suitable controller.  SlikStik's customer service does appear somewhat suspect.

You are saying then that I could easily assign the 14 (I can't think of any more off the top of my head) keyboard inputs I use i(.e. F2, F9 etc) to Shift functions, with no danger of using up the input limit on the 28 input I-Pac (sorry to sound so dim, I just want to make sure that's what you're saying)?  I would just have to be cautious of accidental key presses when using shift functions?  Isn't there some sort of delay between you pressing the Shift key and the 'shift' function actually kicking in?  It says on the SlikStik site that you have to 'hold' the shift button.  I interpreted this as meaning, well, hold the button down, then press another key.  I see what you are saying, but surely just tapping Start 1 to continue play, and not actually holding it down, wouldn't enable the shift function?  Would it?  

Could you tell me how best to contact Chris at OzStick and Richard Ragon at Hanaho?  Do you have their Email addresses or a site that I could go to?  I mentioned before that I'm in the UK, but I don't know if you saw that (or even if it's that important).


Thanks again all, you've been great!

[rampy]

Oh btw, I liked your haphazard image gallery.  It's certainly practical.  I noticed that you are going for a slightly curved layout for the buttons.  Did you choose this because it's easier on the fingers for fighting games?  I must admit that 3 buttons all in a straight line (like on the SlikStik) looks a little uncomfortable, considering that most (non-mutant) people's middle finger is longer than their first and third fingers.  

Thanks for the kind words  re: the image gallery... I'm working on a more polished site at the moment - but it'll be using the same pictures so you've already seen the jist of it...

Actually, I'm glad that the current control panel is a prototype panel... it allowed me to experiment and play test...  I was thinking the same thing re: the "curve" button approach would be smart ergonomically... in reality I don't like it so much. On my final CP I'll go street fight straight 6's (possibly a 7th in the neogeo "A" position) .. I wonder if the slight slant 6 button configuration is both comfortable and familiar to a SFII style player... *shrug* ymmv =)

The perhaps better explain exactly want I want to do, I thought I'd list the keys I usually find myself using:
o+k (as in 'ok' in Mame)
F2
F3
F4
F9
F10
F11
F12
P
Scroll Lock
Pause/Break
Tab
Escape

For OK you know you can wiggle your joystick (that sounds odd doesn't it.?!) left then right and MAME will take that as "OK"

What some people do is setup a special button designated for the SHIFT function (sometimes using a smaller momentary push button or recessing it or whatever) and assigning buttons to the misc functions... often describing that SHIFT and player 1 button = pause/esc/or whatever on a little placard between the monitor glass and bezel. know what I mean?   FWIW the IPAC's are a great tool for the MAME cabinet building community and is quite flexible IMHO.

good luck!

rampy

[Tiger-Heli]

These are all, of course, in addition to the usual 1+2 player coin and start buttons.  Could I easily assign the above 14 buttons as Shift functions, or would I need to upgrade to the 56 input I-Pac?

Yes, you can assign up to 28 buttons as shift button.  BTW, I like rampy's suggestion of using a spare button for the shift button.

You are saying then that I could easily assign the 14 (I can't think of any more off the top of my head) keyboard inputs I use i(.e. F2, F9 etc) to Shift functions, with no danger of using up the input limit on the 28 input I-Pac (sorry to sound so dim, I just want to make sure that's what you're saying)?

Correct!

I see what you are saying, but surely just tapping Start 1 to continue play, and not actually holding it down, wouldn't enable the shift function?  Would it?  

Here is how I think it works, going from memory, as I don't have an I-PAC yet.  The idea is that you press and hold the Player 1 Start button (or whatever you set the shift key to), Press and release the Player 2 Start button, and then release the Player 1 Start button.  And the I-PAC sends ESC (or whatever you programmed P2 Start to).  Works great in theory.  The problem is if, in the heat of battle, your Player 2 opponent mashes his start button after and quicker than you mash yours.  Happens more often than you would think.

Could you tell me how best to contact Chris at OzStick and Richard Ragon at Hanaho?  Do you have their Email addresses or a site that I could go to?

OzStick - http://home.iprimus.com.au/ozstick/prod_joy.html  ozstick@iprimus.com.au (Note prices are in AUD, which are about half of USD and I don't know how that compares with your currency.  

Hanaho - http://www.hanaho.com/products/HotRodJoystick/  http://www.hanaho.com/products/HotRodJoystick/contact.html

 I mentioned before that I'm in the UK, but I don't know if you saw that (or even if it's that important).

Saw it, not really important, except that shipping on the pre-made stuff will be higher, and you are closer to the I-PAC and will want to deal with Happ Europe or Suzo, if you end up building your own stuff.

[Bursk]

Ok thanks once again.  That 'OK joystick wiggle' is priceless.  I agree that having a completely separate button, which is used exclusively for Shift, is a great idea.  That would certainly help eliminate any accidental heat of battle key presses.

I will check out the OzStick and Hanaho links.

The more I think about this the more I can see myself benefiting from building the controller myself (with a lot of help from others that is).  It seems that I could quite easily order the necessary components. FireGeek2 made another post on Retrogames and basically pointed out to me that if you want a custom SlikStik unit, which I would do, it's going to cost you an arm and a leg.  This of course echoes what you guys have been saying here.

It's getting quite late here, so I'm going to go to bed and have a further think about things tomorrow.  I'm still at the stage where I can't decide how I want my controls to be laid out, so will have to think some more about that.

I've decided that I do want a spinner, a trackball, and a 4way joystick.  I was looking at the layout of the Classic Unit, and realised that if the three buttons next to the trackball were removed, the spinner could then be placed where the buttons used to be, with the 4way joystick positioned parallel to the 8way joysticks, and placed between the trackball and the spinner.  The 3 joysticks would then all be in a straight line.  It's hard to describe without an actual diagram, but this would mean that I wouldn't have to reach over anything to access the trackball, spinner, or 4way joystick.  I could quite easily use the existing set of 7 buttons next to the P1 or P2 joysticks to play any games that needed to use the 4way stick.

The problem that I'd have with this setup though, is that I really wanted to use the trackball as a mouse in Windows, which would mean that I'd also need left and right mouse buttons.  On the Classic Unit, the left and right mouse buttons are part of those 3 buttons next to the trackball, which I want to remove in my custion configuration.  What do you guys think about putting these 2 buttons (the left and right mouse buttons) somewhere above the trackball?  I'd only need to use them when I was doing something in Windows (e.g. when I turn the PC on, load up a new game in an emulator, load a new emulator etc) so it's not like I'd need them to be in a particularly convenient position.  I'd rather be able to do everything with the control panel than have to drag the keyboard and mouse out all the time.

Anyway, it's 11pm here so I best be off to bed.  This has been a great day for finding things out, so I thank you all for your help.  Please let me know what you think of the above idea for a custom setup.

Thanks a bunch.  

[SlikStik-Christian]

Bursk,

  Wonderful to see that you are interested in the whole arcade emulation scene, it is awesome and one of the few things that can honestly give you pure excitement.

We wanted to answer some of your questions personally along with the comments from everyone else.

As far as the reply to the email you sent us, we actually replied to it today. It was quite a lengthy email and we wanted to give you the correct answers you were looking for.

As for some comments about our customer support being "shoddy" we feel our customer support is quite good compared to most of the horror stories for other competitors. Just ask around, a 1 day reply is excellent in our book. Usually we are very quick to respond and get back the emails with in the same day but when you receive 50 - 100 emails a day and some of them are as long if not longer then yours it may take a day or so to get a reply. In any instance we apologize for the "1 day it took to reply to you"

As for shipping times, yes there have been some delays, 95% due to Happ Controls not being able to supply us with the parts we order. For instance, right now there is a trackball delay that we and Incredible Technologies are waiting for from them, as they have stated they received a faulty trackball roller from their supplier and they are backordered over 1000 trackballs. You can surely call or email them to verify this on your own.

Retrogames post, we read the reply from "FireGeek2" over at Retrogames in reply to his response we would like to state the following. Yes there was a significant up-charge to his totally custom order, he had a custom color top panel laminate that had to be specially ordered for him, a totally custom top made with the trackball hole moved a third joystick added and a 56-input I-Pac upgrade as well as special order Ultimarc LED's installed. He was quoted a price, he is complaining about it being too high, but he did pay for it with out complaints when he ordered it. As you can see even from his response we did email him with a work in progress on the status of his order and photos of his unit as it was being manufactured. That in itself stands for outstanding customer service, what company do you know of that when they are making you a custom anything they send you photos of it to make sure you are satisfied with it?

In addition we have a high res photo of his custom unit that we put up just so everyone could see 1.) The finished product we made for him and 2.) How we laid everything out. Bottom line, custom is custom and that also includes shipping time.

Everyone forms their own opinions about a certain product, some good some not so good, its almost impossible to satisfy everyone, but you can go wrong by trying.

You ask yourself, what should i do now, well why not do this, look around, email Ozstick and X-Arcade and Hotrod, feel them out and consider their products as well. We as manufacturers of somewhat similar products to what they offer don

[Tiger-Heli]

OzStick - http://home.iprimus.com.au/ozstick/prod_joy.html  ozstick@iprimus.com.au (Note prices are in AUD, which are about half of USD and I don't know how that compares with your currency.  

Hanaho - http://www.hanaho.com/products/HotRodJoystick/  http://www.hanaho.com/products/HotRodJoystick/contact.html

Oops, got this backwards , AUD is about DOUBLE (not half) USD, so $259 AUD for the Ultimate = $130 USD  

Also, if you look at Hanaho, they are around $199 direct on their site (for the SE model), but I've also seen them brand new on E-bay and from other 3rd party merchants for $99 from time to time.

Sorry about the errors  

[Bursk]

Heya everyone.

Christian
Thanks for your swift response.  I was suprised that you actually received my Email, as each time I tried to send it, I got an 'Undeliverable Mail' response.  That's why I tried Emailing you several times, because it didn't appear to be working.

I will Email you my shipping address shortly (will probably already be done by the time you read this), so that you can give me a rough idea of delivery charges.  I will use the info@slikstik.com address.

I've been thinking some more about what kind of layout I would like on my SlikStik.  I've decided to make a scale diagram out of cardboard.  I've made the base unit, and have also made the trackball and trackball plate.

There are a couple of things I need to know though, before I can go any further.  Firstly, how much space does the Spinner take up?  I'm not worried about how deep it goes (into the base unit) but rather how long and how wide it is.  I need to know because I will definately want to move the spinner from it's standard location, but don't want to find I haven't allowed enough room for it (e.g. I could find that I've moved it too close to the joystick, or some of the buttons).

Another thing I'd really appreciate you doing, is if you could send me a scale diagram showing the 3 buttons in a row, next to the joysticks (there are of course 6 buttons in total, but I'd just need a diagram of 3 of them).  I would then be able to print this out and see exactly how they are laid out on the board.

The reason why this is so important, is that I have rather small hands, and would hate to have a problem pressing all 3 buttons at once.  If the buttons were spaced too far apart, then I would find things rather awkward.  Could you also please let me know what the minimum amount of space that is needed between each button is?  I may well up end wanting the buttons spaced closer together than the default setting, so this information would be very useful.

I appreciate that I'm asking a lot, but having this information will help a great deal in the design of my custom board.

Thanks.


Tiger-Heli
No problem    Thanks for the corrections.

[KevSteele]

Bursk,

Hi, I'm glad you visited my site (and read my review of the SlikStik!).

I actually stumbled across this thread while joining up with the BYOAC forums, and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.

One of your concerns is about the closeness of the spinner and 4-way joystick to the monitor. It's actually not as close as it appears -- when I play spinner games I'm no closer to my MAMEframe's monitor than I am to my computer's monitor as I'm writing this. I've never felt like I was too close to the screen.

I actually like having those controls a bit back since I'm usually sitting down on a bar stool and it's nice to put your arms down while playing. Lazy, but probably ergonomic as well.  

As for SlikStik's tech support -- I got the answers I needed in a courteous and fairly timely fashion. My SlikStik had some problems at first, but I really, really have grown to like it since we ironed out the glitches.

Anyway, if you've got any questions about using the SlikStik in a cabinet, please let me know. I'll be around.

Kevin Steele

[Bursk]

Thanks Kevin.

I must agree with you that SlikStik's (as in in Christian's) responses to my Emails have been very quick.  I'm impressed with the level of customer service so far.

Unfortunately, the UPS quote for shipping that Christian was given, and then passed on to me, was around $200.  That's $200 just to send me the thing.   What if there's a problem and I have to send it back, or what if I change my mind within 30 days and want my money back?  Sending the SlikStik back would no doubt cost around $200 too.

Much as I would like to buy a SlikStik, I really don't think I can justify buying something that'll cost me over $600.

I suppose then that I should look into how to build something myself, as that could be what I have to do.  As Christian is no doubt very busy, perhaps somebody else could answer my questions regarding how much space an Oscar spinner takes up to install, and also tell me the minimum amount of space that is needed between the Happ Controls Ultimate Horizontal Buttons.

I'm still very keen on this project, but it's going to be a lot tougher if I have to build it myself.  I'm still in the process of planning the layout of my board, so would appreciate that info on component installation sizes.  I suppose one advantage of building your own contoller is that you can make sure that the controls are laid out exactly as you want them.

Thanks again.

[Tiger-Heli]

Buttons-1-3/8 centers is bare minimum, 1.5-inch is tight, but recommended.  More below:

Happ lists their buttons as having a 1.3-inch wide face.  I measured the (non-Happ?) PAL nut from the Indy Heat wheel that I bought, and it measured 1-3/8-inches across the flats, so you could mount the buttons on 1-3/8-inch centers.  At this spacing, the outer rings of the buttons would almost be touching and you would have to hold the nut and turn the button to install, because the button flats will be touching!  NOTE:   Some buttons may have a flanged PAL nut which would prevent this installation.  
Happ appears to be using a 1-3/8-inch total diameter nut (per their website) which would permit this installation.

The PAL nut on the button that I used measured 1.5 inches across the points and this is the center-to-center spacing that I used.  At this spacing, you might not be able to get a wrench on the PAL nut, but hand-tight is usually good enough anyway.  This is a very comfortable button spacing, IMHO.

Spinners - OSCAR has mounting dimensions on his site http://www.oscarcontrols.com/, for each spinner.  Note that these are mounting dimensions only and don't take into account space around the spinner for hand clearance, etc.