Need All BYOAC'rs Help...

[Xiaou2]

 Hello All   

   Im  starting to close in on a final design for my project... however,  I
need some help collecting special control information in order to consolidate and design a set of panels that will control most all games without many issues.   

  Also, I would like this to be used as a way to create a very detailed
controller museam.   Basically, able to look up a games exact controller, see pics from many angles, and even a parts diagram.  If possible in the future, exact measurements of parts may also be added.    This way, in the future, someone might be able to replicate a controller that may otherwise be lost forever. 

  I do know that there is a project that documents controls already... but its aim is a bit different... and, its not as visual or exacting as I would like.  IE:   Theres a list of 8way games... but dosnt seperate 8way Leaf from 8way micros.   Theres also much missing information and problems where a game  should be listed under multiple catagories.  And again, no pictures that are easy to see what the they are talking about.     

  I was going to attempt this myself... but soon realized it would  take like a year to do alone.  Im guessing that we could pull it off in a few months or less.
 

  What I would  like to do... is to have  each person say... take a letter,  like "b"  and start to go thru those games and see what controls the game used - and then, find a good clear snapshot of the controls.  And, if possible, find the manual and get a clear picture of each controller diagram for the unusual controllers.   

  If anyone has a special controller and can take internal shots, that would be great as well.  IE: Ive been dying to see the sitdown race drivin shifters internals - as its the best shifter Ive ever used.   I have a friend that has the game, so I should be able to grab these shortly and add them to the project.   These would help greatly, as I will try to duplicate the thing.. and even enhance its functionality in a later project.

  If we can get a large number of volenteers, then we can greatly reduce the number of games that need info on per person, and the time needed to complete this great project.

   Obvioulsy, theres many games that used simple controls and will not need much work.   So most will be easy to do.   Others will take much more time to dig up pics and documents on the net and elsewhere.

  I think I will be making a set of many yahoo groups that people can easily get into and upload/download files.  This will keep bandwidth
low, and allow for much easier access from everyone to be able to help.  I believe each group can hold like 20megs worth of files.

 Once completed, Ill put everything together and have it uploaded to people who can afford the bandwidth drain      Obviously, anyone helping on the project will have the full doc before its available elsewhere.

 Currently, this is just a request for recruits.   Nothing has officially been set up yet.

 Please pop your  Email address to:   xiaou2@yahoo.com 

 if you are down with helping out.   And maybe a little post here
to let others know that you sent a mail, so will see how many
are jumping onboard, and get motivated to help as well.

  Thanks!
   



 

[Witchboard]

What about conversions?  Those pretty much use whatever the operator had on hand.  I was researching my Moon Cresta bootleg.  It has a two way joy and a button.  I found the Moon Cresta manual, and it actually didn't use a joystick at all, but two buttons for left and right.  Dedicated cabinets probably wouldn't be a problem, but conversions may become confusing and frankly, irritating. 

[Xiaou2]

 Heya Witchboard : )

    You kinda answered your own question : )   

  Basically, you would have to check with the manual where available.   Any info and pics not verified with a manual would have a 'not verified'   tag on them.    Later, they could be updated with new information if they were incorrect.

  But I do agree, Bootlegs and conversions will be a bit tricky.   

  Thanks for the feedback so soon.   Every bit helps.   Im off to work now, so Ill be back late into the night to check up on things.

[Flinkly]

i think it's a good idea that would group information from many sources and bring it together for people to investigate.  as for which controls, i think that dedicated controls should be used, and not conversions, so go to the manual if all else fails.  second, i'd be worried about the bandwidth and the place that this would be stored.  i'd wait till someone could offer this a permanent home, so that it isn't gathered and lost, or unable to be used.  third, would we cover games available to mame or all games?  i think we should focus on mame since this is what most people use and would be easier than all games.  fourth, i think a definite set of parameters should be set, like how a picture of a control panel should be constructed, and what the kind of file should be, aka jpeg file of control panel taken directly above the panel.

i do like this idea, as it will allow noobs to gain knowledge easily and will also help those exact arcade experience people.  lastly, i think within this project should be incorporated a controls section so that someone could find what the actual panel used, and then if it is still not clear to them what the wico 8-way leaf was, they could continue to another page and look at the single joystick and read a discription of the workings.

overall, i think this would be a great learning place for people in general, and would incorporate information that the mame and collectors community could all use.  great idea, i'd love to help.

oh, and i'd change your address so that people couldn't steal it and send you crap.  just but <nospam> in the center of it so that they can't pick it up straight off the page.

[krick]

I think this idea just screams out for a database driven website like KLOV.com or MAWS.org

A project of this sort would require a human working as a "gate keeper" to make the updates because allowing "anyone and their brother" to edit the information is just asking for vandalism.

Is is possible that Saint could set something up or at least make a subdomain and some space available so that some enterprising webheads could work their magic?

The BYOAC arcade control library...  http://library.arcadecontrols.com  or something like that.

[Xiaou2]

  Yahoo groups allow people to submit only, and can not delete files.   (unless you are a moderator)   So there would be no need to worry about vandals.   

 I would be collecting the info and pics, cropping and enhancing the images, saving in a compressed yet highly detailed format.

  The project would be used for the current mame roms set.   Later could expand to unemulated...ect.

  Theres no need to create a database website yet.  This can be done later - when all the info and pics are ready.   Yahoo groups are free, and so is thier bandwidth        

 No emails yet   

 

[paigeoliver]

There is a bit of a problem though. Many games had different joysticks for upright, cocktail, and even mini, and had different joysticks in Europe as compared to the US, and the same game from a different licensor might have different joysticks as well.

[Xiaou2]

  I agree.   I would like to document the many different versions of a game.   Standup, sitdown, kit... whatever it takes.   

  Most of this project is all about the unusual controls and how they are built and function.  However,  its also nice to know exactly what was under the hood of any of these games.   

  Some of these may be very hard to impossible to perfectly document.   There may be like 20 different custom varients of a simple
8way leaf joy for example.   If we can get a few sources to verify a picture of one of these... then we can add them... else will be labled with 8way leaf  with a note that it used a custom unknown 8way leaf for instance.

  Im sure much of the information is out there.   Its getting it thats  the work.   Much more work than one person alone can do.   Which is why Im calling the troops.

[saint]

I'm always happy to make web space and bandwidth available for public projects -- what I can't do is provide any technical expertise in setting it up

--- saint

I think this idea just screams out for a database driven website like KLOV.com or MAWS.org

A project of this sort would require a human working as a "gate keeper" to make the updates because allowing "anyone and their brother" to edit the information is just asking for vandalism.

Is is possible that Saint could set something up or at least make a subdomain and some space available so that some enterprising webheads could work their magic?

The BYOAC arcade control library...  http://library.arcadecontrols.com  or something like that.

[sirwoogie]

I can.

[Stingray]

  If anyone has a special controller and can take internal shots, that would be great as well.
 

I have a Space Invaders cocktail that uses a really oddball two way lever controller. I'd be happy to take it apart and take detailed pictures of it if that will help the project.

-S

[Silver]

I like the idea, and it kind of has a different approach to the Controls.Dat project which is attempting to *accurately* document what controls games had (not conversions) and specifically what they did in the game.

If you focus on special controllers that would be great, but if you try to cover most games you may find that tracking down the info is hard. Last check Controls.dat had around 800 odd parents documented (lots more counting the clones) but that seems to cover a lot of the "popular" games that people want to contribute to.

Which reminds me - there were some new control panel pics available at emu-france that could be used to add more info to Controls.dat....

[SirPoonga]

Theres also much missing information and problems where a game

[Xiaou2]

"Since this is my project, I am wondering what you mean by this?  What information is missing?"

 Whoops, looks like I missed some like zwackery where was listed under up/down spinner. 

  However,   the list is confusing when it comes to certain games.
IE: Front Line  should be a specific unique controller rather than put
under another simular catagory.

  Missing some well known games like  Throttle:  Super Hangon

 Cyber Sleds - should be listed under 'dua'l analog trigger sticks.
(maybe quad? as there are 2players)

  But obviously, its not finished so I cant be hard on it.   And its a good idea...  just not as complete as Id like to see.

 I do think, that by giving people a list of games to do.. that its more likly to have them do it than if you tell people to submit whatever they want.   Surly, it might take a little bit for the list to dwindle.. but its sort of a challenge and a goal oriented quest.   The goal of finishing the list keeps you motivated to send the time and do it.   

 "Xiaou2, check out the cp pics at emu-france (or Mr. Do!'s page at mameworld).  There's pics of control panels.  But you want measurements."

  Well, I meant measurement of the special controller parts.  IE:  what size diameter is a tempest flywheel.   Whats in a 720 stick, and what are the size parts?   This again is not really fully needed.   I for the most part would be more than happy with great pics of the special controllers from multiple angles and maybe a dissasembled pic as well.   But, Ill take what I can get.   If people had the said game, and wanted to take a pic that had a ruller next to it... than thats cool too.

  Many people have control panels tops pics.. but you rarely see whats under them.   This is the real goal.   To get the mechanical
special controls documented.   But also, as a way to say...

 "Hey, what games used a trigger stick setup?"  and then a bunch of top panels appears.    Visually, you can see which ones there are... and which ones may have other controls along with the triggers... thus could design a more compatible control panel to play them. 

 And then by seeing how some of these mechanical things work, may help you to say,  build your own 6 way shifter based in a known well working design.


 Yes, tron is a great example.   Documenting the mini sticks are a nice thing.   It may not add to the usefullness, but its nice historically.  Untill ebay, I didnt even realize these existed.   

 I suppose clones do present a bit of trouble.

 In that instance, maybe the name of the clone may apppear but
says  "see (parent name)"    Unless these used completely different controls...

  Its possible that the project could grow in the future to unbelievable
proportions... becomming much more detailed in every aspect.   However for now... it will more or less be limited to controls layout and controls mechanics.

   

[SirPoonga]

"Since this is my project, I am wondering what you mean by this?

[saint]

Heh. No doubt about that.

I can.

[Xiaou2]

  Well, seems that there isnt any recruits yet... so Ill try this weekend to mockup a proof of concept to show what Id like to see and whats possible.   Maybe the visual will help entice more responces.