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Author Topic: Control Panel - Request for comments  (Read 2584 times)

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Perceptor

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Control Panel - Request for comments
« on: February 23, 2005, 03:21:09 pm »
Hey all, I've been lurking around here for while and this is my first post.

SirPoonga

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2005, 03:30:51 pm »
You could move the tball in dead center and closer to the player 1 buttons.  Put mouse buttons above it.  You aren't going to use the mouse buttons except in windows games and in windows.
Then use player 1 buttons for games that use tball.  they are mapped like that by default anyway.

tetsujin

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2005, 03:37:04 pm »
Are the far left and far right players really going to need seven buttons?
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NoOne=NBA=

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2005, 03:41:48 pm »
If you move the trackball to the right, over the P-2 buttons, and move the three mouse buttons dead center, you'd have room for a spinner on the left side (above P-1 buttons).
That would make it more playable, and would let you balance out the art as well, with a "barbell" shaped center piece to it.

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2005, 04:21:08 pm »
Welcome to the board!

If you are planning on using your panel for just MAME, you don't need seven buttons for player 3 and 4.

I would:
1) make players 3 and 4 have 4 buttons in 2x2 rows.
2) use the space saved to squeeze the trackball in between players 1 and 2
3) Put a spinner where the trackball buttons currently are and put 3 or 4 buttons to the right of the spinner.
4) add a pause/admin button or two.

That way you get more follow through room for the trackball.

If you want to go full frankenpanel, you can add a flight stick just to the right of the spinner buttons, that way you'll have full Tron controls.

Keep on reading and looking at the example projects.




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tetsujin

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2005, 05:18:20 pm »
I'd also add that I think the gradients are sort of tacky.  If the gradient areas were actual metal foil or something that might be a different story.  But printed-on gray gradients...  bleah.  It seems like most of the time when people use a gradient it's a mistake, IMO.
---GEC

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2005, 05:25:54 pm »
Yeah, trackball is pretty much unusable there due to P2 joy. If you are going to so much trouble put a spinner in as well. Personally I would move the trackball left and then put a spinner directly to the right of the trackball.

daveg2000

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2005, 12:02:57 am »
(Sorry for hackin up your picture.....)

Using your example, this is the layout I am kind of shooting for
in my design...

Even on a 48" Control Panel, you'd think you have room for everything... but the trackball area kinda throws a wrench
into things.. if you plan to spin HARD

...so I will ask you... "Deal, or No Deal?"

quarterback

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2005, 01:55:00 am »
I haven't installed my 2-1/4" trackball yet, but I really don't want to add additional buttons that are only used as mouse buttons and nothing else. 

Is there an easy way to have trackball (mouse) buttons that double for something else or do people just accept that there are 2 or 3 buttons on their CP that aren't used during games?

I've thought about remapping L-ctrl & L-Alt to them or something but I'm curious what others do.

And, on a similar note, why do people put 3-mouse buttons above their trackball?  Is that 3rd button used for something I'm not aware of?  I'd just like to keep my CP from being too frankenpanel-ish.
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Paul Olson

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2005, 02:37:09 am »
I put the mouse buttons on the side of the CP, like the pinball buttons.  It actually works quite well.

Paul

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2005, 07:49:46 am »
actually, in the pic above... I wasn't even figuring buttons
for mouse... DOH!

I like having 3 buttons next to the trackball for Missle command
or the such, so that you won't have to use the buttons from playr1.

It would feel awkward to be at different armlengths for the
ball and for the buttons....

...so I will ask you... "Deal, or No Deal?"

Perceptor

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2005, 09:35:02 am »
Thanks for all the feedback.

tetsujin

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2005, 11:27:13 am »
- Gradients: Tetsujin, sorry you don't like the gradients.  I thought the inset metal panels idea was pretty neat.  I'm just looking for a control panel art concept that hasn't been done a lot, so I'm trying to avoid the typical vector outlines.  Though, as you say, the gradients might turn out tacky.  I'll have to see what it looks like when I test print it at full size.

I'm sorry I couldn't offer anything more constructive there.  I don't have the expertise of a designer, to say, "Oh, this would be better because of this reason and that reason, etc.".  So you could take my comments as reflecting my personal tastes.  But maybe I can provide some more useful information.

The metal plating idea is interesting, but I'm concerned that in practice it'll just look like "noise".  When building a model of a sci-fi ship or something like that, the "noise" in a pattern like that lends the otherwise monotonous forms some depth.  And if you get really advanced (with things like the pearlescent and gloss-variation layers of the Star Trek ship painting patterns) the effects can be subtle and impressive.

In the case of the CP, however, you've already got the design punctuated with the colors of the controls.  The red sticks and trackball will stand right out.  I feel that some aspects of the CP artwork should balance that.  The plating pattern could be fine if maybe it were punctuated with some red trim or something.  I'm not really sure.

The gradients around the control groups, though...  I think as simple gradients they'll be a bad idea.  This is largely a gut reaction on my part, but maybe I can justify that a little.  First off, it's gray on gray, with no variation of hue or anything like that.  The only way it stands out from the background is by contrast: and since the gray value changes across the gradient, that distinction from the background is not consistent.  I like your basic patterns, the simple shapes around the control groups punctuated with gap lines (especially the upper controls - I think the joystick spaces could benefit from having similar gap lines of some sort).  But I think that the distinction of those areas relative to the background should be more secure.

I think making those bits have a brushed aluminum surface (simulated or otherwise) could be just the thing.  The control-group areas will be set apart because they will reflect light differently than the printed gray background.  You could do that with self-adhesive foil, I imagine, if you cut it carefully enough.  You could also use metallic paint sprayed on.  If you used actual metal plate for those areas, that would look even better.

However, I think in any case the design would benefit from some color.  Consider how sci-fi ships are painted:  The movie-version Enterprise had some blue regions on the lower hull.  The Millenium Falcon (and other Star Wars stuff) had regions of deep brown-red.  Babylon 5 stuff is punctuated with blues and greens.  But most important is the fact that your controls have color, and I feel like that overwhelms the grays.  The design of the panel art should fit with (and complement) that.

That's just my two credits.
---GEC

Chris

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2005, 02:50:59 pm »
- Mouse buttons: I'm of the same mind as Quarterback in that I don't like the idea of dedicated mouse buttons.
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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2005, 10:59:16 pm »
- Mouse buttons: I'm of the same mind as Quarterback in that I don't like the idea of dedicated mouse buttons.
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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2005, 11:21:20 pm »
- Mouse buttons: I'm of the same mind as Quarterback in that I don't like the idea of dedicated mouse buttons.
--Chris
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krick

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2005, 02:26:06 pm »
Hey all, I've been lurking around here for while and this is my first post.
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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2005, 03:39:02 pm »
My only comment is that you should put all 4 players in a straight line if possible so that you can easily play two player Smash TV & Total Carnage.

I've been trying to figure out this delima myself.....
I am planning a panel like the one I re-configured above...
But I do LOVE to play robotron and smash tv.....
...so I will ask you... "Deal, or No Deal?"

daveg2000

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2005, 03:57:39 pm »
What about this setup?


1) There is enough room for spinner (comforatbly)
2) There is enough room for 4 player games (comforatably)
3) Dont have to worry about PL2's 2nd joystick and player 4 being
...so I will ask you... "Deal, or No Deal?"

Perceptor

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2005, 04:45:07 pm »
OK, here's a new version based on your feedback.  Thoughts?


daveg2000

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2005, 04:59:46 pm »
We changed your mind to the 4buttons for PL3 & PL4, eh?
 ;D

P2's joystick is awful close to the ball...
Games where you dont need to spin
(Mcommand, centipede, Crystal castles)
will be okay.. but games where you need more
'ummmph' may be a problem.
(Marble Madness, MiniGolf, Other Golf Games... others)

Keep in mind (and anyone please correct me if I'm wrong...)
Ball mounting plates (if you are to use one) is about 6"x6"
...so I will ask you... "Deal, or No Deal?"

Chris

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2005, 05:05:57 pm »
Even if you don't use a mounting plate you still need 6"x6" for the ball...
--Chris
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Lilwolf

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2005, 05:54:01 pm »
To start off with... buy a crap piece of board from home depo... cheapest you can find.  Then you can try a few control panels and just throw them away.  The crap press board is like 4 bucks a 4x8... Wont hold up for crap... but you can try stuff without worry about if it doesn't work....

I don't know if you pull this off... but...

notice player 1 & 2 are almost inline at a 45% angle.  If you can move them so they are exact... then you have player1 for total carnage and smash tv..

Then if you move player 3 over to the right and player 4 up a bit.. you might be able to get player 2 for total carnage and smash tv

This might (if doable) add some more space between for the trackball.  You do need some space to wack it for some games...

One thing to mention.  Little kids had problems with my player 1 and 4 when I had them at an angle...  But it was on a smaller control panel.  They kept trying to use them as if they where pointing up. 

daveg2000

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2005, 11:31:36 pm »


My hacked pictures get worse as the day goes on!!!
...so I will ask you... "Deal, or No Deal?"

Perceptor

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2005, 11:42:56 am »
If I do that, the control panel would be huge!  Also, I don't really care about playing the dual stick games. 

With the new design, I've moved the trackball toward the bottom of the panel, allowing more follow-through room for upward spins.  I guess there's not much room for spins to the right, though. 

I think at this point, if I want to keep the size of the CP more reasonable, I'm going to have to accept that there's no perfect position for the trackball and just go for what seems to be the best, which I think is the second layout I posted. 

I'll mount the trackball plate under the art somehow.  There is enough room around the trackball below the CP for mounting.  More than 6.5", in fact.

daveg2000

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2005, 01:18:07 pm »
what kinda dimensions are you planning this to be?
...so I will ask you... "Deal, or No Deal?"

Perceptor

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2005, 02:32:31 pm »
It's 48" wide and 15" deep.

daveg2000

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2005, 02:58:41 pm »
I'd be real interested in seeing any pictures if you do
any rough mock-ups (like mentioned above)
or even the finished product!  Are you tackling this
project soon?   :)
...so I will ask you... "Deal, or No Deal?"

Perceptor

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Re: Control Panel - Request for comments
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2005, 01:20:20 pm »
I don't have a proper work space at the moment, so I probably won't get started cutting wood until spring, when it gets warmer and I can work outside.  Until then, I'll just be planning everything out as much as possible.  I'll definitely be creating a project log with complete pictures, though, which is something I didn't do when I built my first cab.