Modular CP...is it worth it?

[armax]

I've been debating between individual modular controller panels or just swappable CP tops.

[Apollo]

Personally, having tried swappable, rotatable etc I have gone back to just 1 control panel with spinner, TB, and t-sticks simply because I just found it too much of a pain in the butt to swap/rotate etc. I found I just wasn't playing enough different types of games because of the hassle ( however minor ) of swapping/rotating.

[mahuti]

Intuitive design & reasonable limits are your friends. I'd prefer to have a few good swappable panels over many components. I realize that in the end the gameplay might be more realistic, but it doesn't make that big of a difference to me. I do like having good art however.

[Paul Olson]

I am going with a modular cp.  I don't want to be limited.  If I want to try for a record on a game, I want to be able to recreate the exact cp.  I'm hoping I will use different controls enough to make it worth the effort, but only time will tell.

Paul

[NoOne=NBA=]

If artwork is a high priority for you, then swappable is probably better for you.

Artwork is NOT what gives me the "arcade experience" though.
MY arcade experience comes from not having a bunch of useless controls cluttering up the CP for the game I am CURRENTLY playing.

There is no way around that with swappable panels--except to make ALOT of swappable panels.

I personally believe that the do-all control panel takes away much more of the experience than artwork.
If you think back to the REAL arcades, it was not uncommon to see Street Fighter in a painted over Defender cab with very little real ARTWORK.
I NEVER saw ANY arcade game that had a trackball, a spinner, TWO Tron sticks, and a 1/2 dozen buttons on it though--regardless of how pretty they made the artwork.

Playability is my primary objective.
If I have Robotron going, I want TWO 8-way Wico sticks--just like it had in the arcade.
If I have Discs of Tron going, I want an up/down spinner, and a TRON stick.
If I have Donkey Kong going, I want a 4-way and A button.

THAT is how everything WAS at the arcade.

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The big PRO to modular that you overlooked is that you don't need to buy multiple controls to make multiple panels.

Spinners and Tron/Xenophobe sticks are a good examples of this.
You need one Tron stick, with a spinner, for Tron.
Now the decisions/trade-offs start.

Do you put on TWO trigger sticks, or FOUR?
If you only put on two, you eliminate ALL the two-player tank games.
If you DO put on FOUR, and the spinner for Tron, do you put 4-buttons on there as well, or buy another spinner for playing Blasteroids/Star Trek, etc....
If you DO put the buttons on that panel, you eliminate 2-P Blasteroids as an option.
If you opt for another CP for Blasteroids, do you buy another Tron stick for this CP, or another spinner to put on the "tank" CP?

Trackballs are the same way.
Do you only put on one, and forget about 2-P Marble Madness, or do you put on two?
Do you add 3 buttons to that CP for Missle Command/Centipede, etc...?
How about a 4-way to play Wacko?

[Wienerdog]

Coming from a guy who is 80% done with his 2 year upright project with a rotating control panel, the simpler the better.  If I started over, I would use make the full panel swapable, so I would not be limited, but so that it would be easy to switch out the entire panel. 

Unless you are following someones designes EXACTLY, there is alot of work that goes into the precision required for rotating and modular panels, unless you are okay with large (3/8") gaps between the moving parts. 

[ericball]

Another advantage of modular is you can add controls over time.  You can also easily have multiple button panels with different layouts (e.g. SF, MK, NG) and have buttons on the left or right (very nice for southpaws) as desired.

[telengard]

I've been debating between individual modular controller panels or just swappable CP tops.  I've seen Doc's work and like it but I wonder if there really are enough different configurations for controls that 3 or 4 CP tops couldn't handle.  I've been weighing them out.

Modular CP pros:  1.  quick and flexible CP configurations
                   cons:  2.  Takes away from the arcade experience due to looks (no artwork and often times it has seams.

Swapable CP top pros:  1.  artwork
                                      2.  Keeps the arcade feel and looks
                                      3.  No piecemeal or frankenpanels
                            cons:  1.  Bulkier to store

This is just what I've quickly come up with.  Any thoughts on this subject?

I have a modular panel and I am very glad I made the switch from swappable.  I think modular panels are easier to store than full swappable panels.  Mine have barely noticable seams and I used black pica vinyl for covering which a lot of games used.  I made up for the lack of artwork in the rest of the cabinet.  To me it's worth the trade off.  The feel and placement of the controls comes into play a lot more than the CP artwork.  Some nice fella in here (Nannuu) made some modular Defender artwork for me and I'm hopefully going to add that soon so that would negate one of the cons.

I wouldn't trade my modular panel for anything.  I am now able to play almost all the games I enjoy with their original controls and control layouts.  What could be better besides the real thing?   

If you are looking for the different layouts ( and I don't even touch on all of them ) check out my panels page.  Please note that I've since switched from molex connectors to ethernet which is much simpler to deal with.

http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk/mame/controls.html

I have many more controls I haven't hooked up yet (spy hunter yoke, SW yoke, Xybots joystick, Pole Position Wheel ).  You get the picture.  To do this with anything but modular controls you'd have a lot of huge full panels and not a lot of flexibility.

It seems to come down to form/function.  I love the looks but enjoy playing them more.  YMMV.

[mahuti]

Telengard's modular CP is one of the best that I've seen. Still not for me, though.

[NoOne=NBA=]

It seems to come down to form/function.  I love the looks but enjoy playing them more.  YMMV.

Exactly.

I have yet to hear anyone say they were unhappy that they went with modular.
Most of the early adopters of modular STARTED with swappable, and weren't happy.

I had some really nice art on my swappable panels, but opted for artless (for the time being) modular panels to get the FUNCTION that I wanted.

[Lilwolf]

Moduler allows for exact button settings if you like (have a 6 button part, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1).  This isn't useful for most... but someone with kids it might helpe not to have extras.

Swappable is nice because you can get it so others can do it without you there.  Moduler makes for more things to plug in / configure.... IE, one plug (or for me, putting it in its place) and your done.

I have about 10 panels now... and I would change to a moduler system if I could do it over... (but gauntlet cabinets don't seem right in a moduler setting)  Mostly for getting just the right settings for game a / b.  Like my tron stick is currently next to my trackball  and there is one or two games that use trackball with an 8way trigger stick... But I'm going to move it to another panel this weekend next to my spinner... It would be nice to move them back/forth...  More smaller speicfic panel parts that all work toghet is a good thing.

[tetsujin]

Here's my perspective:

I feel that modular allows for a lot of cool functionality: getting the correct layouts for each game in a single cabinet without compromise, that's the big one.

However, a lot of my cabinet design is being done with the idea of letting guests play (as I'm sure most cabs are) and I want my cabinet to reflect that.  Meaning
1: Operating the cab is simple
2: The player is not subjected to excessive complexity - the machine will be only slightly more complex than the original arcade machines.
3: The player is never led to think about how the cabinet was implemented.  Never allowed to know there's a PC inside or that the controls are USB or whatever.  I want people to see the games, not the machine.

With any CP there's a compromise in how the controls are setup.  Either it's configured as a universal CP (with too many controls for most games, but enough controls for most games) or it's configured as something more specific to a limited selection of games: in which case the layout is better but the selection of games is smaller.  The ideal situation for any game is to have the controls you need, and nothing more.

From that perspective, the advantage of a regular or swappable CP is that it looks better.  The advantage of a modular CP is that the configuration can be changed with a much finer-grained level of control than with swappables.

But to me, the advantage of being able to change the CP configuration isn't a great one.  What's the cost?  The panel can't have much in the way of artwork because it won't line up when you change the modules around.  The panel will have seam lines running down the middle.  And if you ever swap CP modules while people are visiting, you introduce them to all the hairy details of the CP construction - which isn't at all something I want to be associated with the experience of playing on my cabinet.  Plus you have all these modules kicking around.

With swappable CPs you'll also have modules kicking around - and they'll be bulkier.  But my general aim is for guests to never think about the fact that the CP is swappable.  So extra modules will be kept out of sight, and unlike with modular there'll be no way to tell the difference from a dedicated panel.

I would bear in mind that it's possible to turn a swappable CP into a modular one, and almost equally possible to turn a modular CP into something more like a regular swappable CP by creating modules that take up the entire CP space.  In light of that, I'd recommend swappable for the first cabinet because it's easier, less complex, and better looking.  You can build a modular control box for it later if you find yourself wanting the flexibility.

[armax]

tetsujin, that was my line of thinking about the subject.  At first, I thought modular was the only way to go.  But after much research, I find that many games share a common setup or easily adapted to setup at hand.  In other words, there is a standard configuration that will run 80% of the games out there.  The other 20% tends to be rather specialized.  I started thinking, why not run the universal setup with artwork and either come up with other swappable tops for specialized games as I need them or construct a modular system as a swappable top.  I like the funtional aspect of modular but the looks really seem to literally be pieced together to guests rather than give the appearance of, "wow, you have an actual arcade game in your house?  BS, you didn't make that."

In planning the construction of my cabinet, I love the modular flexibility but feel like I'm coming up short in constructing the arcade cabinet that I was so familar with growing up.  Decisions....decisions...decisions..

[Doc-]

I have a very nice modular setup (see signature block), and I've had it for almost a year now:

Positives:
 - Modular offers more flexibility than any other design I can think of
 - You really can play every game that you can afford to purchase controls for
 - Swapping panels only takes 15-20 seconds in most cases
 - You don't buy duplicate controls or extra IPACs
 - It avoids the frankenpanel syndrome
 - Huge size advantage - you can create a compact yet fully functional cabinet
 - Expansion is unlimited - you can add new modules anytime you want as you can afford to buy and manufacture them
 - There is no added complexity in swapping panels.  Any 5 year old can be taught to do it in a few minutes with my design (my son for example!).
 - Artwork is possible - the best solution I've heard of is to print the design on laminated vinyl (similar to most side art) and then cover the panels with it.  In fact I've been toying in my head with some yellow/black art modules for a future design based on ms pac man (for example)
 - Most people don't notice the seams or even that the panel is swappable until I lift a panel out. 
 - They usually say "cool - you have a Galaga machine - can I play?"

Negatives:
 - Some added complexity in making the panels, though I believe it is less than rotating panels, and probably comparable to wiring most swappable panels.
 - Storing the extra panels can become an issue (I have over 20 now!), though you can build shelves in the back of the cabinet for most of them.
 - Certainly some complex artwork just will not work well

Keep in mind I started with a static panel (2 joysticks, 7 buttons each and a spinner), but the first thing my wife asked once I finished the cabinet was "Can I play Centipede?"  Then we did not have a 4 way, then I wanted to play  an analog game, driving game, tron style game, etc, etc...

Was it worth it?  Absolutely.  There are certainly a number of games/configurations I don't play every day but inevitably a visitor or I will get the urge to play a classic game and within a few seconds I have the panel matching the original configuration.  I would have had to build dozens of non-modular panels to match them all.

Cheers!
Doc-

[zvar]

The one question I have with modular panels is how stable are they with the joysticks?
Don't want to be playing a game where milliseconds count and the joystick fall off the cab.

Steven

[telengard]

The one question I have with modular panels is how stable are they with the joysticks?
Don't want to be playing a game where milliseconds count and the joystick fall off the cab.

Steven

I can't speak for other setups but mine is ROCK SOLID.  It was the most important aspect when coming up with my design.  I am very rough when playing some games so it had to hold up and not feel flimsy during a heated game of Robotron.

[quarterback]

- Most people don't notice the seams or even that the panel is swappable until I lift a panel out.

First let me say that this is in no way a slam against you.

[mahuti]

Noticing and saying are different. Most people may not understand what they're seeing, and just assume it's "supposed" to be there.

Most people that use my machine haven't played an arcade machine in over 10 years, or really even thought about them.. it's natural that they would just assume everything is the way it should be.

[armax]

hmmm.  I'll have to agree with the above poster.  Most who have played arcade games do realize that arcade control panels aren't segmented.  In fact, I noticed seams in a few photos when I was a newbie and  only after reading up about the actual cabinet in curiosity, did I start to learn about modular control panels.  I would say that people notice but are polite enough not to criticize (not meant to be harsh in any way).

[mahuti]

[NoOne=NBA=]

You guys are all so contradictory it's funny.
Sit back and listen to yourselves.

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I want everyone to think it's a REAL arcade machine--so I'm going to put 15 different controls on 1 panel.

Most people realize that arcade control panels aren't segmented--but they're too dumb to realize that no game ever shipped with a trackball, 2 spinners, and 6 joysticks on it.

I want people to see the games, not the cabinet--so I need to have really pretty artwork on there to keep them from focusing on the cabinet.

[mahuti]

I agree with NoOne=NBA=, there are definitely pros and cons to each argument.

[tetsujin]

You guys are all so contradictory it's funny.
Sit back and listen to yourselves.

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I want everyone to think it's a REAL arcade machine--so I'm going to put 15 different controls on 1 panel.

Most people realize that arcade control panels aren't segmented--but they're too dumb to realize that no game ever shipped with a trackball, 2 spinners, and 6 joysticks on it.

I want people to see the games, not the cabinet--so I need to have really pretty artwork on there to keep them from focusing on the cabinet.

It's all about presentation.  If the cabinet looks coherent, then it won't be distracting.  Well-done art makes the cabinet more coherent.  Seam lines down the middle of the CP around each block of controls makes it less coherent.  On the other hand, having controls better fitted to the particular game being played makes the cabinet more coherent, while swapping, rotating, or toggling anything to play a game makes it less coherent.

All I'm saying is that it's a compromise either way.  But my personal goal is to pick a compromise that won't distract or confuse players, or make them see the machine as a computer.  Modular CP's have great advantages, but in terms of presentation they leave a lot to be desired.

If you don't swap CP parts during a session, you don't take advantage of the modularity, but you still have the negative cosmetic effects of the split CP.  If you do swap CP parts during a session, you introduce your guests to the mess of wires inside the machine.

It's a matter of taste, of course.  I don't think the fact that you disagree with me makes my position at all self-contradictory: there is just inevitably some compromise in any design, and I prefer the compromise in my approach to the compromise in yours.

[Paul Olson]

Maybe I'm just old, but CP artwork just doesn't seem all that important to me.  When I was a kid, if a machine had artwork, it was usually for the wrong game.  Machines were swapped and hacked so often, nothing looked right.

As far as the lines on the modular CPs.  I dont think it would stand out as much in real life as it does in the pictures.  The flash really highlights it.  Besides, if you are going for true arcade authenticity, it would be to dark in the room to notice at all.

It sounds like some of the people here are talking about swapping controls a lot.  I would think for the most part, one or two setups would get you through an evening.  I am thinking about making mine lockable so I am the only one who can swap.  My guests don't need full access to every panel every time.

I also think some of you are overestimating the general publics awareness of arcade machines.  Most people wouldn't even know that some games had 4 ways and some had 8 ways.  Most people just don't think about things like that. 

I guess my decision comes down to function over form.  I have been using a CP with the standard fighter layout and trackball/spinner for about a year now, and I have felt limited since day one.  Swappable panels would still have too many compromises on controller configurations (you could overcome this with a bunch of panels, but that would be cost prohibitive).

Just sharing my thoughts on this, sorry

Paul

[telengard]

You guys are all so contradictory it's funny.
Sit back and listen to yourselves.

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I want everyone to think it's a REAL arcade machine--so I'm going to put 15 different controls on 1 panel.

Most people realize that arcade control panels aren't segmented--but they're too dumb to realize that no game ever shipped with a trackball, 2 spinners, and 6 joysticks on it.

I want people to see the games, not the cabinet--so I need to have really pretty artwork on there to keep them from focusing on the cabinet.

It's all about presentation.  If the cabinet looks coherent, then it won't be distracting.  Well-done art makes the cabinet more coherent.  Seam lines down the middle of the CP around each block of controls makes it less coherent.  On the other hand, having controls better fitted to the particular game being played makes the cabinet more coherent, while swapping, rotating, or toggling anything to play a game makes it less coherent.

All I'm saying is that it's a compromise either way.  But my personal goal is to pick a compromise that won't distract or confuse players, or make them see the machine as a computer.  Modular CP's have great advantages, but in terms of presentation they leave a lot to be desired.

If you don't swap CP parts during a session, you don't take advantage of the modularity, but you still have the negative cosmetic effects of the split CP.  If you do swap CP parts during a session, you introduce your guests to the mess of wires inside the machine.

It's a matter of taste, of course.  I don't think the fact that you disagree with me makes my position at all self-contradictory: there is just inevitably some compromise in any design, and I prefer the compromise in my approach to the compromise in yours.

The way I get around this is to just throw in a 4 way and a few buttons when people come over.  There are a ton of games that can be played with just that setup.

And yep, it's a comprimise thing having modular controls.  I use the thing most of the time and very rarely have people over so I had to be happy with it.  I went all out on the rest of the artwork on the cabinet so it's not too bad as far as looks.  I'm currently creating a custom Defender-esque monitor bezel to replace the original Sente one which doesn't go with the rest of the Defender motif.

[telengard]

Maybe I'm just old, but CP artwork just doesn't seem all that important to me.  When I was a kid, if a machine had artwork, it was usually for the wrong game.  Machines were swapped and hacked so often, nothing looked right.

As far as the lines on the modular CPs.  I dont think it would stand out as much in real life as it does in the pictures.  The flash really highlights it.  Besides, if you are going for true arcade authenticity, it would be to dark in the room to notice at all.

It sounds like some of the people here are talking about swapping controls a lot.  I would think for the most part, one or two setups would get you through an evening.  I am thinking about making mine lockable so I am the only one who can swap.  My guests don't need full access to every panel every time.

I also think some of you are overestimating the general publics awareness of arcade machines.  Most people wouldn't even know that some games had 4 ways and some had 8 ways.  Most people just don't think about things like that. 

I guess my decision comes down to function over form.  I have been using a CP with the standard fighter layout and trackball/spinner for about a year now, and I have felt limited since day one.  Swappable panels would still have too many compromises on controller configurations (you could overcome this with a bunch of panels, but that would be cost prohibitive).

Just sharing my thoughts on this, sorry

Paul

I went through almost the same sequence although I started out with a swappable panel first.  I quickly became frustrated when I wanted to play a game that didn't fit with the 8 or so panels I had made.  Plus the panels were pretty large.  My modules are all relatively small and I bought a small storage container to keep them in.  Works for me.   

And yes, I am not swapping modules like a mad man.  Usually I pick a particular style I want and play those games, or I tend to get hooked on a game for a while and leave that setup (i.e. Tron or Defender).

[Samstag]

Modular CP's have great advantages, but in terms of presentation they leave a lot to be desired.

Actually, I'm looking forward to my modular system being part of the presentation.

[NoOne=NBA=]

None of my friends even CARE about anything except "will it play THIS?".
Nobody cares that I don't have art on my CP at the moment, as long as it plays "THIS".

To me, the big embarrassment is to have this "plays everything" cabinet I built, and then someone asks "Can it play Vindicators?"....uh, No..........I only have one trigger stick.
"Can it play Marble Madness?".....Yeah, ONE player....cause I only have one trackball.
"Can it play Blasteroids?"......Yeah, by yourself.........I didn't have anywhere to put the second spinner/buttons for it.

[SirPoonga]

I also think a modular design can have artwork.  You just have to make it modular artwork, meaning repeating paterns and such.

[NoOne=NBA=]

My original design was going to be puzzle pieces with different characters on them, that would interlock from one module to the next.

I have since opted for a design similar to the Nintendo vs. panels, where each set of controls will be surrounded by a design with a border.
I haven't actually produced any of them yet because I'm waiting to see how interchangable I can make the panels between my current cab, and the next one I build.

I'm planning to convert my current cab to vertical only, and make the new cab horizontal.

[SirPoonga]

Exactly.  I've noticed the trend in cp art is either some type of repeating patter or common background (starfield, grid, 3D objects),  Or a collage of characters, this would be harder to do in modular.

[quarterback]

Somebody (maybe it was NBA) had some modular artwork that I thought was cool.  I swear I saw it (or a mockup) here on the forums although it could have been somebody's private website.

Each panel had a similar pattern that may have even linked up from piece to piece.  I don't remember exactly, but I do remember thinking that if I were to put together a modular CP, I'd want to do something similar because it helped pull all the parts together (IMO)

[telengard]

Somebody (maybe it was NBA) had some modular artwork that I thought was cool.  I swear I saw it (or a mockup) here on the forums although it could have been somebody's private website.

Each panel had a similar pattern that may have even linked up from piece to piece.  I don't remember exactly, but I do remember thinking that if I were to put together a modular CP, I'd want to do something similar because it helped pull all the parts together (IMO)

It might have been the artwork Nannu was working on for my cab.  It was all Defender artwork but made to work on my modules.  I need to get in touch with him to get some hi-res versions of what he worked on for me to continue.

[quarterback]

It might have been the artwork Nannu was working on for my cab.

[telengard]

It might have been the artwork Nannu was working on for my cab.  It was all Defender artwork but made to work on my modules.  I need to get in touch with him to get some hi-res versions of what he worked on for me to continue.

That sounds like it might be what I was thinking of.  I looked at your webpage.  Are there pics anywhere of the work he was working on?

Here's a link.  I guess he is very busy w/ family stuff so I haven't bugged him at all about it.  He does *excellent* work.  He was very kind to do my sideart and marquee.  I'm currently working on the bezel and it's not as hard as I would have thought.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,25705.msg237536.html#msg237536

[quarterback]

That's it!

Me likey!

[Chris]

A Tron-style CPO with a grid background would work well on a modular panel, and all of the lines would obscure the seams if they were fairly narrow. 

--Chris

[Fat_Trucker]

Don't know if its already been attempted but I did play with the idea of having a double sided machine with a rotateable monitor.

Regular (Sticks/buttons/trackball/spinner) control panel on one side with a wheel, pedals, and flight sticks on the other.

For someone with the technical know how, to do it you could have a dedicated machine for regular gaming on one side and simply turn it round and flip the monitor and you have a dedicated driving/flying cab on the other. No ugly panels and twice the options for snazzy artwork.

But then I'm new and don't have the first idea if this design would even be feasible.

[tetsujin]

To me, the big embarrassment is to have this "plays everything" cabinet I built, and then someone asks "Can it play Vindicators?"....uh, No..........I only have one trigger stick.
"Can it play Marble Madness?".....Yeah, ONE player....cause I only have one trackball.
"Can it play Blasteroids?"......Yeah, by yourself.........I didn't have anywhere to put the second spinner/buttons for it.

Well, it's all a matter of taste.  Which compromises is the builder least willing to make?  That's what it comes down to, because there's always a tradeoff when you try to have a cabinet play "everything".  I don't think modular is a bad way to go by any means: it's just not for me.

Truly, it would be embarassing to have games on the list with only partial support.  Playing Smash TV with one stick and four buttons per player is downright hackish - but I'll probably do it anyway because that's the compromise I'm making on my initial CP.  As for Blasteroids, though, I'd be embarassed to have that one on my cabinet at all.