Urgent PC Help Required..mini mame in jeopardy! :D

[HeadRusch]

Ok, I'm no slouch around PC's......I've built quite a few systems in my day.

But these ATHLONS are driving me nuts.

To bring everyone up to speed, I bought a FIC Athlon Motherboard and a 1.33ghz chip, some ram, a 300 watt power supply (Brand X generic), a heatsink and fan for the chip, and a Radeon 7500 board....

The system was locking up quite a bit as I was trying to install the OS.....just freeze up.  I figured it was heat related....heat from the athlon chip.
I let it sit once when it locked up, smelled something burning, and FIGURED I'd burned the chip.  Turning on the motherboard resulted in a black screen, I never saw anything come up.  Hmmm.  Test out hte mointor with another PC.

Monitor working fine, we rule that out.

No big deal....$40 chip, live and learn.

I order a cheaper replacement...$35 for a 1Ghz athlon.  I also order a $30 heatsink and fan (good quality) and some silver paste for the chip-to-fan contact.  I know you only need a tiny dab of that stuff, so I dont put too much on.

I get the chip and stuff...get it all installed......plug it in and......nothing.
I check to make sure the chip isn't burning up, the heatsink and fan are on TIGHT and so forth, I dont hear any cracking or whatever, no smell....but no video.  Turn it on, turn it off....nothing...again...nothing.  Nothing comes up on the screen.

"Crap...I must have fried the motherboard somehow.....It shouldn't have happened, but I did!".

I order a new motherboard....a good Biostar one, for about $50 bucks (The fic was only $25 on clearance).....

I put the new stuff in...power it up.

NOTHING.


ok, now I'm pissed cuz I'm $250 in the hole, and now I've actually spent more trying to cobble the system together than I could have BOUGHT one assembled and tested for!


Hahahaha...I LOVE COMPUTERS!!!

So, AThlon builders, I need some advice.

Could it be the 300 watt power supply? Could I have actually botched the chip/heatsink/fan install agan and fried the new chip too?  

FWIW I'm just taking the MB's out and leaving them sitting in their foam, I'm not mounting them in a case (Since I wont do that anyhow)....i DOUBT they're shorting out as I can hold them as they boot and its the same thing.


OH......I decided to hook up a spare PC speaker I had lying around.  I couldn't get the FIC motherboard to make any noise, but the new BIOSTAR just gives out one long beeeeeep.........then a few seconds...then a BEEEEEEEP......more seconds.....BEEEEEP.  Just one long beep.......I can't find a Phoenix Bios code for just 1 beeps.

Help? What to check next!

[rampy]

Oy vey...

Lets try to keepp it simple/basic... and rule out somethings...  Can you try the RAdeon in another box just to rule that out (it most likely isn't the vid card)...

When you do power on the chip (in either motherboard) do the keyboard scroll/num/.caps lock come on and blink or antyhing?

I assume when you are doing barebones, there IS NOT a HD, or floppy etc connected ... a backwards IDE cable will give similiar prob....

uhm... I'm a little burnt, so that's all I got for the moment...   take a deep breath... start from scractch (leave the cpu/thermal grease fan assembled together).... maybe reseat the CPU into the socket/slot
... reseat the ram... if using multiple sticks only use one for terst boot.   it's odd that it won't post at all...

You said it's phoenix bios?  I can't find a 1 - 1 - 1 beep thingie either.

good luck...

rampy

[Dink]

Haven't said anything about the ram yet.  Are the settings correct in the bios? Same type?

SDRAM, PC100, PC133, ECC, Non-ECC

DDR, PC2100, etc.

[rampy]

Haven't said anything about the ram yet.  Are the settings correct in the bios? Same type?

SDRAM, PC100, PC133, ECC, Non-ECC

DDR, PC2100, etc.

although since he's got no video, it will be hard for him to change the timing/type in the bios...  Will a mobo POST to bios without ANY ram installed?
Jest a thought...
rampy

[MrArcade]

As far as  I know, the minimum you need to boot is motherboard, processor, and ram.  That should get you into the bios.  Unplug anything else....you can plug it in later...you just want to find the problem.

Note:  when I have had trouble installing an OS, it was bad ram.  You now have 2 processors and 2 mb's, I would try each processor in each mb, etc...and remove the ram and see if you get the same beeps.

[HeadRusch]

Its not the radeon......the new motherboard I bought has onboard VGA, and that will be enabled by default...since I haven't yet seen a POST screen, I'm guessing the PC isn't even getting that far to initialize the VGA.

With JUST the Chip/Heatsink/Fan and 512meg stick of ram in there, I get the beeps.  
With JUST the CPU in there, I get the beeps.   (no ram)
With no cpu, I get no beeps...   Go figure.

There are no hard drive/floppy lights...I'm not putting this in a case, guys, its just sitting on its motherboard box and antistatic bag rightnow  thats why I said "I doubt its shorting out, nothing conductive is touching the bottom of the MB". I heard the beeps cuz I hooked up a spare speaker I had to see if the motherboard was reporting a problem.

Could be that the OEM 1Ghz chip I got in the mail was a stinker to begin with, and the motherboard error is indicating a bad chip.  The 1.33 I'm pretty sure I fried.  

I'm going to try one more stick of ram, and if thats not it, I'm calling it a learning experience and buying a pre-made system for $150, I figure I can spend another $150 and get what I want built and tested.  At least then I'll have a MB that posts......I can add Ram, the rest on my own.

My big problem now is I don't know if the chips are bad, if the motherboards are bad, or if they're all working fine but something ELSE is the culprit....I need to find someone with an old, working, AMD Duron or something.  

Anyone here have a spare AMD Duron or Tbird they aren't using that they know works?
I just want to see if my motherboards are fried.....or if its just the chips.

I could take the Tbird i have in my working box out and try that, but frankly I dont want to mess anything up with that, so I ain't touchin in. I'd rahter buy a $20 duron than take that puppy apart! I just want to buy a $20 duron that I know is good!

Anyhow:

I have 2 motherboards and 2 AMD chips.  I need to know if the AMD motherboards are good, and if its my chips that are shot.    Any idea on the best way to do that? None of my buddies have AMD systems....anyone out there willing to test these things for me?

Problem is its not really worth it for me to invest any more money in them if I'm just going to keep staring at the blank screen.

1) I know its not the monitor, it works
2) I know its not the videocard, cuz I dont get the other beeps like "keyboard not present" and I dont hear the hard drive or CDROm drive spooling up...they initially start up, but then they stop responding.

Stupid @($*$(@ AMD........market a processor that fails within 10 seconds if you dont have a $30 cooling solution strapped to its ass.

[HeadRusch]

IT LIVES!!!

IIITTT LIIIVVEEEESSS!!!!

it didn't like the SD Ram, its a dual-ram type MB....

I'm going back to it BEFORE IT DIES...<SHUDDER>

[rampy]

Why not borrow the ram from your working box.. or conversly stick the 512  stick from the minimame pc into  the working duron to see if there's issues...

I'd strip it down to just cpu, known good ram, keyboard, and of course monitor... (No HD etc...)

I'd also at least hook up a keyboard when trying to POST... I dunno sounds like a ---smurfette--- to troubleshoot...

I'd be super fustrated by now if I were you...  not sure what else you can try...

ONe random thing to check is to make sure you have the CPU fan on the correct header pins... and make sure you got the right type of fan .. what  I mean is... especially with the AMD chips the mobo will sense if the fan is present and working... if you hooked it up to say "cpu fan 2" by accident it will think the fan failed and power down immediately... just an odd ball theory, since other conventions seem to have failed...

*shrug*

rampy

[HeadRusch]

IT LIVES! AND CONTINUES TO LIVE!! BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Phew.....

Anyhow, I'm going to take the 512 stick and see if it works in my wife's PC upstairs (p3 800)...I wonder if I can use it in my Proliant server at work, you know, I'll bet I can!

I'll check the ram........I think most games on Mame will run with 256megs...but I'm curious:
Do Thunderbird Athlons NOT work with SD Ram??

I thought even an XP chip would work with SD PC-133 ram,  it would just be a limiting factor of overall system performance.

Anyone know for sure?

I'm going to get this system setup..then I'm going to rig up the other possibly blown MB with the possibly blown chip and see if I can bring life to it.  But that 1.33Ghz smoked...I know it was just the grease on the chip that was smoking, but maybe the thermal protection shut it down in time........then again, who the hell am I kidding

a 1Ghz Athlon should definately keep me in all mame games at 100%....
at least..for now...this MB takes XP and up chips so I've got an upgrade path.

[rampy]

ahhh geez... i bet it's the SDRAM.... doh!

please reply or msg with the exact mobo info (both of them)

Some boards support both DDR and SDRAM... others just DDR...  (But you can't use both at the same time... but that's not the issue in your case)

most athlons use ddram

rampy

[HeadRusch]

Well the first motherboard is a FIC-AD11

It has a jumper to support a 100Mhz FSB or a 133MhzFSB.  It has slots for ONLY SDRAM
(no DDR ram here).

The second board, the new functioning one, running the 1Ghz Athlon, is also capable of running SDRAM (pc100, PC133) but also has slots for DDR 184 pins.

Earlier, the 1.0Ghz wouldn't post at all using the 512meg stick of PC133 ram I just bought.
But it booted up fine with a spare 256 megs of DDR 2100 ram I had here!

Do some athlons simply not run with the PC-133 ram?  

On the FIC, I know I'm limited...but I'm not sure if I should pick up a cheap duron and try that with the SDRam slots (I mean, lets face it, I probably didn't damage the FIC board, its just old...a revision 1 board that came out around the same time as the first Socket 7 Athlons (as they phased out the Slot 1 Athlons and durons).

[Kitbasher]

HeadRusch the 1.33 are a 266 FSB chip and the 1 gig are usually 200 FSB.  The older board likely has a VIA KT133 chipset, being 200 FSB only.  The newer board likely KT133A and can accept the slightly newer 266 FSB Athlons.  Check the old board for a jumper setting to change the FSB or put the 1 Gig Athlon in it and it may just work.  
I just re-read one of your earlier posts, check what you have the FSB set for on the jumper and test from there.  You can run PC133 ram if the board is set for the 100 FSB, you change that in the Bios.  The jumper is for the CPU though.  Hope you did not kill your 1.33.  Its usually not heat that kills them right a way, but a damaging the CPU die while installing the heat sink.  
Hope this helps.

[Lilwolf]

A few things.  Athlons take a lot of power and a lot of heat.  Forget about the processor fan for a second.  Do you have a fan to move the air around the processor?  If not, the processor fan is moving hot air.

Next, get it working outside the cabinet.  

Next, it probably wasnt' your processor in the first place.  Did you send the old chip back?

Next, do you have a working computer around that you can swap parts?

Next, make sure to get it working with the minimum settings.  Nothing but a video card.  Then add components until it stops working.

Have you reseated your memory?  

All I can think of at the moment  

[cdbrown]

Do you even know if the new 512 stick actually works.  I've had to return sticks the next day as the new sticks didn't work out of the box.  But my computer was able to boot up and run for a little while before blue screen of death popped up.  I also had other working sticks installed at the same time which maybe why it would run for a little while.

*shrug* I'm just guessing.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Dink]

It just a thought, but does either of those motherboards support 512MB sticks?  Most of the cheap motherboards only support 256MB sticks.

[u_rebelscum]

Depending on how old the cpus are, and how much power the ATI video card uses, 300 watt might not be enough once you add the HD, sound card, and (especially) the CD.  I don't know the power needs of the 7500, but with a gForce 4 ti + old 1 gig (.25 size), 300 watts won't cut it.

[SNAAAKE]

my brother has been trying to built a PC for ages(a newer one) and we got 2 dead board before getting the third.

But from what i know.If you somehow manage to fry the ram slot then everything is fu_ked as thats what happend to my brother.once you got the board.I checked underneth the ram slots and 2 contacts were shorting each other and we ended up frying everything except the power supply.

Now everything works fine(bro's computer) but if you see the fan running but nothing on the screen then its either ram or the cpu itself.

like MR.arcade said.
Unplug everything else and see how things go.

[HeadRusch]

All good suggestions.  The newer motherboard has 2 PC133 slots *168 pin*, and 2 DDR slots *184 pin*.  Since the manual lists 2gb max memory, I'm going to take that as meaning each slot can have a max addressable chip size of 1gb.  Since you cant use the DDR and SDR ram at the same time, its one or the other.  This motherboard would NOT boot with the 512meg PC133 chip, but did boot up (and continues to work fine) with the DDR 2100 ram (256 megs).

I will check the MB manual and make sure it will take 512meg chips..which it *should*.  The ram could be bad, or it just might not like that ram in that slot.  I also have a stick of 256meg PC133 ram that I know works which I will try later.

The older one, I have to read the manual..that one might not like 1/2 a gig chips.    The older motherboard says it supports both a 100Mhz and 133Mhz FSB.  Since that motherboard currently holds (The possibly burned-up) 1.33Ghz Athlon (266 FSB) I was going to throw that jumper from the default 100Mhz to 133Mhz FSB setting.

Only it always gave me grief.  Perhaps at the 133Mhz setting my brand-x ram coudn't keep up.  Anyhow, when that board WAS working, the 1.33Ghz chip showed up in POST as a 1Ghz chip (ie: it was running on the 100Mhz FSB setting, not the 133).


Boy...no wonder we're geeks...



Anyhow I understand that the jumper on the motherboard is for Chip Speed.  200Mhz athlon (100Mhz FSB) versus 266Mhz athlons (133Mhz FSB).

Right now I hvae the 1Ghz chip on a 100Mhz jumpered motherboard, which is what it should be.

Since its working, stable, I'm very happy.  I'm also glad this MB supports up up up.  Right now its currently running its own internal VGA.  I'm going to set up MAME and see how this does.  However for 3D gaming I can forget it, the S3 Savage chip is abyssmal, it barely benchmarks.


If mame plays fine on it, including the higher-end games, then I might just keep the Athlon 7500 for something else.
Like...that 1.33Ghz chip.  If its NOT burned up, then I have yet another box to build

[Donor]

Just to put in my 2 cents, Ive built quite a few athlon pc's and the one thing you can't slouch on is the power supply. We all know it needs to be at least 300 watts but it can't be a cheap 300 watt box. try to get a name brand power supply or go 350 watts or bigger.  

[Tiger-Heli]

Any chance there's a jumper for SDRAM or DDR?  Just a hunch?

[SNAAAKE]

Any chance there's a jumper for SDRAM or DDR?  Just a hunch?

Funny but never heard about such jumper?
Anyone else?

[rampy]

Any chance there's a jumper for SDRAM or DDR?  Just a hunch?

Funny but never heard about such jumper?
Anyone else?

mobo's that support both should autodetect which slot is populated... but it's not out of the realm of possiblilities to have a jumper selectable ram type...  especially on a el cheapo mobo

rampy

[Dink]

Funny but never heard about such jumper?
Anyone else?

Funny, how you have to comment even when you don't know?

http://www.amptron.com/html/P4VXASD.html

[HeadRusch]

The only jumper I can see pertains to a jumper where you can manually set the voltage on your RAM.



Anyhow, like I said, its a moot point.......I'm not really worried, since the system is alive and happy...

[SNAAAKE]

Funny but never heard about such jumper?
Anyone else?

Funny, how you have to comment even when you don't know?

http://www.amptron.com/html/P4VXASD.html

MA bad
Had no clue,they do exist.No ones perfect

[MameFan]

Rule 1:

Before you set up a new system, assume the RAM is bad.


Rule 2:

Assuming your ram is bad, prove it isn't in a KNOWN system.


Rule 3:

Use this utility to THOROUGHLY test your stick of ram in a known, good system before putting it in the new system. Then RETEST in the new system.

www.memtest86.com


I picked up some 512 Meg PC133 ram at Office Max last spring. $79.99 deal, sounded good.  K-Byte was the name (prior to this I always stuck with Crucial, Micron, TI, etc..)

Tried to use it on a new system... Windows XP setup crashed randomly in the setup program. Spent 12 hours blaming everything else, including weak power supply.

Loaded up Memtest86, and though it wonderfully passed the "simple" tests #1-4 (basically, read cell, write cell, read cell, move next) when it got to the advanced tests, like test #5, it failed MISSABLY.   ANother stick failed the same way.   Tried all my other memory in the house, passed with flying colors. (And this was even after telling BIOS that it was PC100 even though it was rated PC133)


The test is slow.. about 1 hour for the thorough ( but not dexlue) tests for 512 meg of memory on a 1 GHZ system. But it will help identify bad ram.  

The problem with most BAD ram isn't that a single address can't keep it's value, rather there are matrixing problems that cause the ram to overwrite a value somewhere else in memory when another one no where near it is written to.  BIOS and simple memory checkers wont find this corruption. MEMTEST86 will.

Think of it as using your remote to change your TV in the living room to channel 55, and somehow, the TV downstairs gets a very faint remote signal bouncing off the walls and changes to channel 52 at the same time.  That's how ram can interact between addresses if it's poor quality.



Then, after you're sure it's not RAM, and it's an AMD chip... CHeck the power supply. Ensure it's rated to work with your chip.

[SNAAAKE]

I picked up some 512 Meg PC133 ram at Office Max last spring. $79.99 deal, sounded good.  K-Byte was the name (prior to this I always stuck with Crucial, Micron, TI, etc..)

REALLY?

Well I dont know about you but you paid $70 for 1 single chip?

I paid $26 for 1 piece(512mb).

and I have 3 of them in my reguler computer and 2 in my cabinet.Never ever had any problem.

[Dink]

I picked up some 512 Meg PC133 ram at Office Max last spring. $79.99 deal, sounded good.  K-Byte was the name (prior to this I always stuck with Crucial, Micron, TI, etc..)

REALLY?

Well I dont know about you but you paid $70 for 1 single chip?

I paid $26 for 1 piece(512mb).

and I have 3 of them in my reguler computer and 2 in my cabinet.Never ever had any problem.

WOW SNAKE!  You are awesome and you win!!!!!  

Seriously, if you were reading he said "last spring", thats when you could barely find 256mb for that price.  I think he got a good deal.

[SNAAAKE]

yeah but last year I got 512mb chips for $43 each.so thats still cheaper.They are probley lower grade but 3 of them would make it up right?

[rampy]

yeah but last year I got 512mb chips for $43 each.so thats still cheaper.They are probley lower grade but 3 of them would make it up right?

Is it the right time in this thread to start waxing nostalgic about, "paying 250 bucks for a 16 meg stick of 72 pin ram back in the day..." ?  

which is the cue for someone who paid 500 dollars for a 512K upgrade to his apple IIe that ran his BBS running renegade or whatever...  

which will prompt someone else to reply he do you remember your FIDOnet number... or I remember staying up to get first moves on LOTR or planets or whatever....

er.... well maybe that's just how it goes on slashdot.

rampy