Rotary Joysticks and initial design Q's

[Pac Threat]

Hello all!  Im new to the seen and cant wait to apply my skills into a new MAME cab.

Im kicking off my upright MAME cab project and am only deep into the design and research of all the options.

I have a few immediate questions that I can't seem to find any definite answers to.  I want to place my order for my CP parts soon.

1)  Happ Rotary joysticks.  Can I just spend the extra money and put in one or two rotary joysticks in my 4 player panel.  They look like they are based on the Super's design, do they perform the same or does it have negatives to use a rotery for regular non-rotary play?

My main reason to include rotarys is to play Ikari Warriors, did that game have two rotary's, cant seem to remember.  Whats the best situation, no cost concerns.

2)  HighBall 3" trackball or regular 3" trackball?  Which is best?  Barring the extra layout space a highball takes, is there any games that doesnt work well for a highball?

Prethanks.

[Lilwolf]

1) Ikari warriors didn't use optical rotary joysticks (like most of the happs ones).  This is closer to a spinner on a joystick then the original 12way ikari warriors joysticks.  

but don't worry..

a) If you go the happs optical rotary, the joystick works well.  So if you can play a game with a mouse using one axis, this will work.  You will need an optipac to convert it to a mouse, and then you will want to use analog mame so that you can use x and a y from the same mouse.

or

b) Buy a snk joystick or 2.  They are 15 bucks at www.videoconnect.com.  But then you will have to know how to connect it to your computer.  Go search (don't have ip address) for druids snk converter board.  It will convert the 12 way into a single 'l' or 'r'

btw, I don't have a highball trackball, but I hear their better.  But consider going imperial or benson.  MUCH cheaper!  (you can get 2  2 1/4 benson trackballs for the price of a single 3" happs... and you can replace the balls with pool balls (8ball looks sweet).   Plus there are companies that sell custom pool balls (if you want a white one with a mame logo or something)

[u_rebelscum]

1)  Happ Rotary joysticks.  Can I just spend the extra money and put in one or two rotary joysticks in my 4 player panel.  They look like they are based on the Super's design, do they perform the same or does it have negatives to use a rotery for regular non-rotary play?

My main reason to include rotarys is to play Ikari Warriors, did that game have two rotary's, cant seem to remember.  Whats the best situation, no cost concerns.

(I don't have a happs rotary but I think:)
You might notice three differences with either happs rotary from the normal super.  
1) The handle will spin.  duh!  Even the supers spin a little, but I imagine the rotaries will spin easier.  So depends if you don't like the feel of a "loose" (ie easy to spin) joystick handle....
2) You might notice the extra weight on the bottom of the rotary joysticks.  Very little difference in speed (actually, inertia), but some people will notice.
3) You need the control panel to be a little deeper to fit the extra stuff on the bottom of the rotaries.

2)  HighBall 3" trackball or regular 3" trackball?  Which is best?  Barring the extra layout space a highball takes, is there any games that doesnt work well for a highball?

Prethanks.

I also don't have a high ball (I have the high lip).
Highball is probably better, but if depends on how you use the trackball.  If you like coming from a low angle and hitting the ball low, and carrying your hand onto and over the ball, the original might be your cup of tea.  If start with your hand on the ball, or only hit the top of the ball, or come from a higher angle (~45 degrees), the high ball probably is better.

Like Lilwolf said, though, betson and wico also sell TBs for cheaper. (Unless Happs' is on sell, then they are about the same).  Also, I got my happs high lip when it was on sale, so you might want to see if it still is on sale.  It is a little different than the original happs 3".

[MKL]

Happ does sell a rotary switch joystick beside the optical one. I have both.

The rotary switch type is basically the same as SNK old LS30 (the one pointed out by Lilwolf), only it's much better (and more expensive too), since it has a newer design (the LS30 has leaf switches), it's sturdier and suitable for other games as well whereas the LS30 with it's odd knob is practically unusable for non-rotary games.

I prefer the switch type over the optical, it's a matter of feel...anyway the spinning of the optical is basically the same as that of a super, no real difference.

The url to druin's site is:
http://members.rogers.com/druins22/ls30/

[Lilwolf]

Good point.  The SNK rotaries are only good for games that use them.  You would rather use a keyboard then a SNK30 for a fighting game for instance.

but their cheap and if you have space you can add both a SNK30 and another joystick for fighting games.

-OR-

Look at hotswappable control panels.  So you can make one control panel with two snk30's and a few buttons later... And have a more generic Control Panel for the other games

[Pac Threat]

I meant the mechanical rotary that happs sell, sorry if I wasnt clear on that.  I know the optical isnt what I want.   I know I need to get the druin encoder for it also.
Thanks for the tips,  sounds like I will get two mechanical rotary from happs just to make the most complete panel possible, and it looks like they will play just like supers for regular non rotary games.
I will publish my CP with exact visio layout and bill of materials someday.  I really appreciate some of the sites out there with detailed info, hope to return the favor for future addicts.
My setup is basically:
Ipac 4
Opti pac
druin rotary interface
two happs mechanical rotaries
two happs super
Ultimate buttons
3" highball trackball
Oscar Pro spinner
on 5/8" mdf and 1/8" lexan
plus some great graphics and a keyboard drawer.

My goal is to use the best components without too much concern for cost and design it well.  If you take the cost and spread it out over its lifetime (and I can also reuse them, if I rebuild), the cost in the difference is negligible.

I don't really care for the width of a 4 player panel, may have 'add on wings' for the sides for the uncommon times I will use players 3 and 4.  OR  Im toying with the idea of using a plug in game pad or controller for someone to join in for players three and four (wouldnt be arcade controls, but might fit my needs).   Will decide soon.  Leaning towards swing up or detachable wings tho.

The cab will be sized to support up to a 27" TV monitor (with min 1024x768 capability), but will probably start off with a cheap 21" monitor.  I've decided to stay away from arcade monitors and the 'realistic look'.  I want pc functionality and high res graphics full time for any other applications I need.

Thanks for your ear all.   I welcome any other tips, comments or opinions.

[anoon]

I'm using Happ's optical rotarys. I know they aren't true to the Ikari feel, but I want to use the smooth rotary action on a few other games where it is more suitable.

Personally, I think the optical rotary spins LESS than a typical super!

[Darkstalker]

I meant the mechanical rotary that happs sell, sorry if I wasnt clear on that.  I know the optical isnt what I want.   I know I need to get the druin encoder for it also.
Thanks for the tips,  sounds like I will get two mechanical rotary from happs just to make the most complete panel possible, and it looks like they will play just like supers for regular non rotary games.

I went through the exact same debate and I decided to order the opticals, since I will be playing a few head to head fighters as well.  I went with the opticals simply because it would be a little odd to feel the joystick clicking if you rotate it on accident when doing circle motions (IE fireball, 360s).  I think it's 12 positional so it's only 30 degrees to get it to click; nice for games that need it, bad for everything else.  If I was going to just play Ikari and Heavy Barrel, I would have gone with the mechanical since it's a bit more "true to form", and the LS30s were too short IMO.

[Pac Threat]

btw, what games are the main reasons to get an optical?

Any others that are worthwile for mechanical besides  Ikari, ikari III, victory road, downtown?

[Lilwolf]

Arkanoid and spinner games mainly.

Also, there is a cps2 games (evo fighter?) that has a joystick and a optical rotary.

I bet theres a few others that would work also

[Psyklops]

btw, what games are the main reasons to get an optical?

Any others that are worthwile for mechanical besides  Ikari, ikari III, victory road, downtown?

Guerilla War is one of my favorites.

[Darkstalker]

Arkanoid and spinner games mainly.

Also, there is a cps2 games (evo fighter?) that has a joystick and a optical rotary.

I bet theres a few others that would work also

Yes, but if you are using Druid's interface, you can't use the rotary for an analog input anymore...You'd have to either get a new set of joysticks set aside for that purpose, or a switching mechanism that toggles the 15 (?) pin output on the optical joystick between an analog input device, and Druid's board.  Much easier to install a spinner IMO...

[Tiger-Heli]

btw, what games are the main reasons to get an optical?

Any others that are worthwile for mechanical besides  Ikari, ikari III, victory road, downtown?

Heavy Barrel and Time Soldiers.  Calber .50 is set up for optical, but it should work.

Also maybe MERCS and Smash TV, but I could be wrong about these.

lots of others too, but these are the ones I remember now.

[MKL]

Any others that are worthwile for mechanical besides  Ikari, ikari III, victory road, downtown?

Midnight Resistance is one of my favourite rotary games (and one of the few with a horizontal screen).
Also worth are SAR ("Ikari meets Aliens") and Bermuda Triangle. Neither Mercs nor Smash TV belong here.
Eco-Fighters (mentioned by Lilwolf) wasn't originally a rotary game, it used buttons for cw and ccw movements so it was like playing a rotary game with mame default keys (i.e. total sh#t) but now that we have druin's interface you can add it to the list.
Forgotten Worlds (great!) can also be played with either a mechanical or an optical rotary stick of course but a spinner would be much better, like the arcade version. Actually the spinner in the arcade version could also be pressed to act as a fire button. Since this special spinner is very hard to come by I see two (good?) alternatives to replace it:
1) joystick with top button + spinner
2) normal joystick + spinner + mouse button used as pedal