Trackballs - whats the diff?

[cholin]

I was wonderring what the difference is between a Happ trackball and an Ultimarc trackball.  The Happ one seems VERY pricy, yet the Ultimarc one is rather cheap.  Can someone fill this gap in for me please?

PS: Im sure something like this must have been posted, so if it was, can you give a link.

[RayB]

Happ trackballs are designed for "industrial" uses such as a game machine in a bar or arcade, getting beat on and abused on a daily basis by people who cuold care less about the machine cuz it's not theirs.

Ultimarc's tb is made for the hobbyists. It has plastic rollers and probably wouldn't withstand the abuses of daily public use, but for home use it's more than adequate.

~Ray B.

[cholin]

So that's the only real difference?  That seems more than OK to me to just go with the Ultimarc one then.  Does anyone use the Ultimarc products?  This is what I plan on ordering, is it any good?

2x T-Stik Plus (1x RED, 1x BLUE)
18x Pushbutton (6x RED, 6x BLUE, 1x PLAYERONE, 1x PLAYERTWO, 2x BLACK, 2x YELLOW)
1x iPac2 Interface (PS/2 CABLE)

Does anyone have any experience with these products?  Also, about the Trackball, should I get the Opti-Pac cable?  Also, is there a way to use the trackball without having to connect an Opti-Pac?

[crashwg]

You can connect the trackball with a mouse hack but if I were you I would just order the Mini-Pac with the harness for both digital and optical inputs...

www.ultimarc.com/minipac.html

[Matt Berry]

The guts are the difference. The Ultimarc can't be rebuilt if needed, the rollers and encoder are a single piece and don't come apart very easily, it also makes it impossible to replace the second bearing on the roller (the one on the side of the encoder wheel). Happ trackball has 3 steel rollers the ultimarc has 2 - covered with plastic, it also seems slightly louder then the happ. Buttons are fine they are just a little shorter then the ones provided by happ. I pac is a good choice, I have 2 of them and really enjoy them.

[Silver]

Note that the Ultimarc trackballs are 2 1/4" whereas you can get 3" Happs trackballs. (as well as other sizes)

Also Ultimarc trackballs DO have steel rollers - they just have a plastic steve. They also have 5 ball bearings just like the Happ. I believe that Ultimarc trackballs are made by SUZO - another large Gaming Company which has actually just recently merged with Happ, forming the biggest company of its type in the world or something. So calling them for "Hobbyists" is possibly not quite accurate.

There was a post a while back with some more info:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,21947.0.html

[mahuti]

I have an ultimarc trackball and I love it.

[cholin]

Well I have a spare mouse, so the mouse hack would probably be the best solution for me.  The reason I dont want to go for the extra 3/4" from Happ is because, well, I dont quite have alot of money at the moment, so the cheaper, the better.  Usually people start projects with a cheap theme in mind and get tricked into saying "Well this is better and it ONLY costs $30 more, and this one is even better for an extra $25"  I do not wish to do this.  As long as it works, it will be fine for me.  Now, is it possible to take the Ultimarc trackball and use it with no mounting plate?  I never understood why people used mounting plates, and I figure that if I were to remove the top cover and screw it right into the wood with a spacer, it should be more than OK...anyone tried this?

[Flinkly]

if you look at the trackball on the site (ultimarc), the ball only comes a wee bit out of the casing.

[cholin]

Okay, but here's my issue:

If mounting plates take off another 1/32, then why even put them on?  What do they do is what I'm asking.  Can't I just simply put a few screws in the corners of the trackball case?

[quarterback]

If mounting plates take off another 1/32, then why even put them on?

[quarterback]

Let me follow up here to make sure we're all on the same page:

The trackball is in a thick case.  You can either put that case underneath your wood CP and drill through the wood and down through the case or you could put the case on top of the CP and drill down through the case and into the CP (which is what you seem to be saying)

Most people don't want to do the latter because you'd have the entire trackball case and mechanism sitting on top of your CP.   The problem with the first setup is that the thickness of the CP makes the ball itself sit too low.  If you rout out the bottom of your cp (to make your CP as thin as possible) you run the risk of actually busting through the CP.  So, the most common solution is the mounting plate.   Instead of putting your trackball under the thick wooden CP, you put it under the thin, sturdy mounting plate.

[cholin]

Oh, I think I get it now.  You drill a hole big enough for the whole trackball, which would be a big square.  Then from there you attach it to the plate only.  Thanks alot.  I thought that you had the mounting plate, then wood under it, then the trackball.  Thanks for clearing that up for me.  I planned on doing the second by the way.  Is there any way I could perhaps route the top of the wood by around 1/25 of an inch, a little bigger than the plate, and then insert the plate in there so it is flush with the board?  Im guessing that would work out.

[quarterback]

Is there any way I could perhaps route the top of the wood by around 1/25 of an inch, a little bigger than the plate, and then insert the plate in there so it is flush with the board?

[cholin]

Okay, well here's where I got the idea from:

http://www.willcoxonline.com/mame/controlpanel/controlpanel.htm

If you look under Trackball, you will see that the creator did get ALOT of ball exposed by the way he mounted it.  I remembered seeing this and it's results and thats why I brought this up.  I figure, why spend cash on a mounting plate when I can get it done custom to the height I like for free!  Good idea or no?

[NoOne=NBA=]

I've done both methods, and prefer the trackball plate.
It's alot easier to do, and the results are PERFECT--as opposed to the "pretty good" I got with the plateless method.

[cholin]

But the plates are like $15 US!  Why in the world would I buy a piece of plastic for fifteen dollars plus S+H plus conversion rate.  Wouldnt it just be better for me to get it custom, or even cut my own plate?

[NoOne=NBA=]

If you can go that route, then yes.

I prefer the hidden hardware models from Happ over anything else.
They have a solid plate on the top, that you rout flush with your CP, but bolt through the CP, and mount the trackball from the bottom side.

[cholin]

Got a link to the product?  Happ has so much stuff.  Then I need to see how much it would be and if it would work with an Ultimarc Trackball, which it should.  See if it's worth doing the deal with StarBurst.

[NoOne=NBA=]

THIS style mounting plate.

Not sure if they work with Ultimarc balls, or not, but you could email Andy at Ultimarc, to find out for sure.

They work really great if you rout them in flush to the top, and then go over them with your CP overlay.

[the3eyedblindman]

I bought the white ultimarc trackball cuz it was cheaper, but its real small, if i had to do it over i woulda just payed more for the authentic 3 inch one.

[Quarters]

I have both an Ultimarc and a Happ trackball. both are great. Both can be mounted with or without a mounting plate if you use a little creativity.

with the ultimarc ball you will need an optipac/mouse hack include this in your price breakdown.

If you go the happ route consider ordering from tornadoterrysdot on ebay. He has reasonable shipping rates to Canada. I think his prices are better than you would get from Starburst. If you buy other Happ parts from him (buttons, joysticks etc.) you can combine the shipping for a better rate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13718&item=6153384383&rd=1

I also live in Canada  (Ottawa). Remember also that the taxman will also want a piece of the action after you receive your parts.

[Matt Berry]

Also Ultimarc trackballs DO have steel rollers - they just have a plastic steve. They also have 5 ball bearings just like the Happ. I believe that Ultimarc trackballs are made by SUZO
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,21947.0.html

Yes the center is steel, covered with plastic, it is also made by suzo. I wonder if you've actually taken both apart. The Happ has 6 bearings 3 rollers. The encoder wheel is attatched with a screw, and the case is solid. The Ultimarc has 5 bearings total (1 is the idler) and 2 rollers. The encoder wheels are plastic overmolded on the rollers. The case isn't a solid 2 piece design like happ but is a 4 piece design that isn't quite as strong.

Someone also commented on the mounting plates, Happs mounting plate will fit the ultimarc trackball, both are painted steel not plastic and are very high quality. The happ mounting plate is better quality then the ultimarc one.

[ErikRuud]

Just to throw another option into the mix.

I am very happy with my Betson/Imperial track ball.  They come in 2-1/4 and 3" models, with or without a PS-2  mouse interface, the rollers are thick steel ones.  You can even get them with translucent balls for $80.00.

If you plan it right, they can easily be mounted without a plate.

[cholin]

See that's the kind of stuff I need to know.  Thanks alot!  I need to check out the Beston/Imperial trackballs.  Ive been told that they are pretty much rip-offs of other ones, but I dont care.  Price is my number one concern for the trackball.  I figure, its not NEEDED for the games I play, but it's nice to have as a mouse and for extra control.  BTW, are those lighted buttons in the background of that picture?

[ErikRuud]

Some of the buttons are lighted.

[DreamWeb]

Ok.. How did you manage to mount that without a plate on a wooden CP?

d.

[cholin]

You remove the top half of the trackball casing and just mount it direct, I assume.

http://www.willcoxonline.com/mame/controlpanel/controlpanel.htm

[ErikRuud]

No, No, NO!!!!!

I have mentioned it before, but My CP's are made from two layers of plywood.   The top layer is high quality 1/4" plywood while the bottom layer is 3/4" plywood.

For the joysticks and trackball, the lower layer has cutous that fit arond the controls.  The top layer only has the holes for the sticks and trackball.  This providdes a stronger mounting surface than routing out MDF would.

[Stingray]

Or if you have the tools to work with metal, you could always build a metal control panel and eliminate all this fussing about with mounting plates and routing out wood.

-S