Keyboard Or Gamepad Hack?

[bcard74]

I am doing a simple bartop machine with an 8way stick with restrictor plate, 3 game buttons, and probably 4 extra buttons for Start and ESC/Tab etc ...

I am not the most handy guy in the world, so which of these hacks would be easier?  Which one would work best for a smaller setup like the one above?

Thanks in advance!

PS - I LOVE Track and Field and Hyper Sports, I have heard that a keyboard hack sometimes can suck for these games ...  Comments?

[gnateye]

a gravis pad hack would do you perfectly and you can find them pretty cheaply on ebay, there are a few peeps (me included) selling prehacked pads as well,  just look in the buy/sell board


gnateye
http://www.cosmicbreaks.com/images/arcade_stick/padhack/

[m3talslug]

That is a kewl looking pad hack you have there!

A few questions.  Why did you choose the Gravis Pad USB <-- my understanding was that it doesn't have a common ground which caused me a bit of grief when I was switching guts(for other platforms)

[bcard74]

a gravis pad hack would do you perfectly and you can find them pretty cheaply on ebay, there are a few peeps (me included) selling prehacked pads as well,  just look in the buy/sell board


gnateye
http://www.cosmicbreaks.com/images/arcade_stick/padhack/

Your stuff looks great.  Do you do any Gravis pads that aren't USB?  I am just using an older Pentium with no USB support.  DOS too, so that takes care of that ...

[bcard74]

One other thing ...  Is this description of how you would have to hook up a gamepad hack accurate?

It of course would plug into the port and then you would go into each ROM and change the inputs from LEFTCTRL to Joy1 etc ...

Sorry, dumb question, but I haven't had to deal with this yet ...

[Lilwolf]

I've hacked a keyboard... to many problems (ghosting, multi-keys ignored, different chip on the same model of keyboard so if you get it working, don't expect to repeat it, ect).  Some people have got theirs to work well and done it multiple times... but expect a timewast.

Then I hacked a joystick.  MUCH better.  All the troubles I had with the keyboard was gone.  They expect all the buttons to be pressed at once... They are fast... ect... But some emulators can't run off joysticks...

Then I bought a real encoder when I wanted to clean everything up.

Each level was a HUGE step forward in my mind.  If you have the money, just get an encoder.  You will NEVER be disappointed.

[m3talslug]

The best trick I found was the use Playstation guts.

A CHEAP playstation controller should run you no more than $10.  It's built with 10 buttons + 2 axis.

You can get adaptors that will allow your PSX to work on ANY system i.e. PC, DC, Xbox, GC, etc.  http://www.levelsix.com

Playstation guts I use have a single common ground and do NOT have ANY ghosting issues.  If emulators do not support gamepads, I use Joy2Key.

[neuromancer]

I am not the most handy guy in the world, so which of these hacks would be easier?  Which one would work best for a smaller setup like the one above?

I've done three keyboard hacks, one gamepad hack, and I built a panel with resistors that works like a gamepad.

That last one is really cheap, but it doesn't work the way the plans are drawn. Real time waster getting it going and then it doesn't work well.

Each of the keyboards has taken about 2 hours between decoding the matrix and hooking up the wires. The gamepad hack took about the same because I got a couple wires in the wrong spaces and debugging is a ---smurfette---.

It probably doesn't matter one way or the other which way you go. If you do the keyboard hack, then you can wire up some of the extra buttons for credits and start, which you can't do with a gamepad, unless it's a usb one with extra buttons.

PS/2 keyboards are standard and will be for a couple years I'd guess. USB will be standard for a lot longer. Gameport is pretty obsolete. None of that matters if you never upgrade the system.

If you do the keyboard hack, check www.mameworld.net under emuadvice for the absolute best keyboard hack information.

Check out the photos of my gnarley keyboard hack: http://members.trivergent.net/~bob/arcade/
and open the .pdf file (There's also a much nicer version of my dog).

Bob






http://

[rampy]

may I suggest a sidewinder gameport hack as a low cost, lowish level of skill (common ground, premarked/drilled pcb points, etc)... that is if you don't want to go the ipac route.

You could do the keyboard hack as well...

If you're using MAME, in DOS that should work great if you're on a budget and are a little intimidated by the keyboard hack...

*shrug* ymmv but for my intermediate step while I save for a ipac, etc down the road, I can't complain about the gameport sidewinder hack...

The only thing that is annoying, is I'm having a hard time finding a c64 emulator that isn't $$$ that supports a pc joystick... if I had used a keyboard encoder I wouldn't be having that issue.

The sidewinder should have plenty of inputs that could be mapped for the design you laid out in your original post.

That's my opinion of course, but if you need any clarification or have a specific question concern lemme know.

rmapy

[bcard74]

Thanks for all the replies!

One clarification please ...  Neuro made it sound like a gamepad hack would not allow me to set up start buttons, ESC, Tab, etc ...  Rampy made it sound like this was possible with a Sidewinder hack ...

Which would it be?  Of course I am quite possibly interpreting the posts incorrectly, so bear with me ...

Thanks again guys.

[rampy]

In MAME you can assign "quit", "coinup",."player start" (paraphrased names btw).... to any key including joystick buttons... since you only want  8 way stick (which electronically is just 4 directions) and 3 buttons you'd still have quite a few left over to have assigned MAME functions.

So, no you can't easily (that I know of) make a sidewinder button = and ESC press on a keyboard... but you can make it so that the buttons map in MAME to get the same functionality.

Does that make sense/clarify?

rampy

[gnateye]

to answer a few questions directed at me...

>>Your stuff looks great.

[bcard74]

Makes perfect sense.  I may just include a keyboard hidden under the CP then for when I need to anything beyond just playing the games via the sidewinder hack ...  Thanks.

[gnateye]

hidden keyboard and mouse is a huge help if you have the room.

[Lilwolf]

If you need the keyboard and mouse only every so often, go spend 30 bucks and get a RF wireless keyboard and mouse (make sure it's radio frequency and not IR).  

These are great!  just sit them someplace close and out of the way... bring it over and use it... then put it back... no plugs!

[neuromancer]

Thanks for all the replies!

One clarification please ...  Neuro made it sound like a gamepad hack would not allow me to set up
Thanks again guys.

I was thinking specifically of a *gameport* gamepad hack. A gameport can only have 4 buttons... (Unless you use two and remap the other directionals as buttons). A USB gamepad can have  more buttons, so you could do it with one of those.

Sorry for the confusion.

Bob

[hyiu]

sorry to bump in ....

I'm using gameport sidewinder hack and I'm satisfy with the result.  But... (yeah... somehow.. there's always a "BUT"...)

I'm using Mame32 on Windows ME... how can I map the "quit" function in Mame32 to a button (instead of "Esc" or in addition to "Esc"...) I tried the "TAB" menu, it has mapping for most functions... but I don't see quit or exit somehow.... any help is appreciated...      

also, I couldn't get VisualPinball to map to joystick...
so, I tried Joy2Key.... seems like it doesn't work....
anyone has any experience in this ??

Thanks,

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm using Mame32 on Windows ME... how can I map the "quit" function in Mame32 to a button (instead of "Esc" or in addition to "Esc"...) I tried the "TAB" menu, it has mapping for most functions... but I don't see quit or exit somehow.... any help is appreciated...      

quit is "UI CANCEL"  Remap this to your joystick button.

[creatine28]

Have you tried using the key mapping that is inlcuded in the Sidewinder software?   When I want to run game in windows that don't take a joystick, I just set up a keyboard profile for my sidewinders.  Works  great for C-64 emulator.

sorry to bump in ....

I'm using gameport sidewinder hack and I'm satisfy with the result.  But... (yeah... somehow.. there's always a "BUT"...)

I'm using Mame32 on Windows ME... how can I map the "quit" function in Mame32 to a button (instead of "Esc" or in addition to "Esc"...) I tried the "TAB" menu, it has mapping for most functions... but I don't see quit or exit somehow.... any help is appreciated...      

also, I couldn't get VisualPinball to map to joystick...
so, I tried Joy2Key.... seems like it doesn't work....
anyone has any experience in this ??

Thanks,

[bcard74]

Thanks for all the replies!

One clarification please ...  Neuro made it sound like a gamepad hack would not allow me to set up
Thanks again guys.

I was thinking specifically of a *gameport* gamepad hack. A gameport can only have 4 buttons... (Unless you use two and remap the other directionals as buttons). A USB gamepad can have  more buttons, so you could do it with one of those.

Sorry for the confusion.

Bob

My connection WILL be via a gameport as this in an old P166 in DOS, so there will be no USB support.  Therefore, am I to assume that only 4 connections can be made in total?  If so this could get more difficult ...  Thanks.

[eightbit]

I know you want to get buy on the cheap but spend the money on an IPAC interface, you will never regret it. It will solve all your problems.   With its built in shift mode you don't need any extra buttons for coin slots or exiting games or whatever. It makes your install cleaner and easier no problems with ghosting and it should work with every emulator without having to custom program the buttons for every game and or load additional drivers. It's only $50, skip a couple meals and you'll have it paid for. After all isn't this more important than eating?

[rampy]

Thanks for all the replies!

One clarification please ...  Neuro made it sound like a gamepad hack would not allow me to set up
Thanks again guys.

I was thinking specifically of a *gameport* gamepad hack. A gameport can only have 4 buttons... (Unless you use two and remap the other directionals as buttons). A USB gamepad can have  more buttons, so you could do it with one of those.

Sorry for the confusion.

Bob

My connection WILL be via a gameport as this in an old P166 in DOS, so there will be no USB support.  Therefore, am I to assume that only 4 connections can be made in total?  If so this could get more difficult ...  Thanks.

I think the threading of the discussion is mixed up here... different people responding to different comments and it's getting confusing ...and a slight semantic error along the way...

A normal gameport controller would be like 4 buttons and the 4 directional inputs or whatever... which if you did a hardwire hack from your happ sticks to your gameport, or a generic gameport gamepad that's what you'd be stuck with...  

The sidewinder gameport plugs into your gameport, but uses it in a different way (more akin to a custom MIDI instrument driver) to communicate with your PC.  That's why you have like 8-10  buttons plus directional pad on a sidewinder AND you can daisy chain up to 4 sidewinders for a multitude of inputs ( i'm currently using 2 sidewinders in DOS for ubercade using MAME/ADVMAME without an issue... your emulator needs to support sidewinders natively in DOS though, or you can use one of the TSR's for sidewinder DOS drivers someone custom wrote)

If you have the bread, yes go with the IPAC its the BEST solution... but if you're in DOS, cheap/broke... the sidewinder will do ya nicely for now...

So yeah.. as long as your EMU supports it directly (which MAME, ADVMAME, nesticle. callus, and i'm sure others do) you can use a sidewinder in DOS with 4 directionals, and like 9 other buttons which you can map however you'd like for MAME purposes....   the other consideration is if your DOS FE accepts joystick input, including the sidewinder natively... Gamelauncher does, and is what I use.  If your favorite DOS front end doesn't let you scroll using a sidewinder that could be a potential snag...

So if you have 5 bucks plus shipping, a soldering iron, some wire, and a dream... for the application you described initially you can use a sidewinder gameport version while only making minimal compromises...

again, if you need any specific help/questions I'd be happy to help best I can...
Rampy

[bcard74]

Thanks for the clarification, I completely understand now.  That is what I am going to try and do, will let you know how it goes ...  Thanks again for the help all.