PS3 - The Cell Unveiled by Sony, IBM & Toshiba

[GGKoul]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/pcworld/20050207/tc_pcworld/119602

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20050208/ap_on_hi_te/cell_processor 

Can't wait to see the PS3 in 2006.

[GGKoul]

PS3 & Nintendo to be unveiled at this years 2005 E3 convention.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/02/07/news_6118152.html

[Ravant]

Not to start a huge fight, but the cell technology is almost as over-rated as Honda's VTec technology. It's not a bad concept, but it's not as great as everyone says it is. You're better off sandwiching a series of 4 P4, 3.80 GHz processors with Hyperthreading together with 4 plates of copper which link to a heat sink to combine for all of them. Besides, their main processor may blow everything else out of the water, but they're still using the "emotion engine" supposedly.

A friend of mine, who used to work for Acclaim, had the displeasure of working with it. In his words, the PS2's emotion engine and graphics capabilities are so painfully restricting and so rediculously odd to program for that it almost doesn't pay to port a game to the PS2. If the PS3 is using a similar chipset, even if it is upgraded, and if they're using similar code-bases, then the PS3 will be SERIOUSLY bottlenecked by its graphics processors. Both Microsoft and Nintendo are supposedly using 64 bit processing with ATI graphics chipsets. Nintendo is sticking with their solid IBM PowerPC, however a significantly upgraded, 64 bit processor. Personally, if you want my prediction, the next console battle is going to be between Nintendo and Microsoft.

[Crazy Cooter]

Not to start a huge fight, but the cell technology is almost as over-rated as Honda's VTec technology. It's not a bad concept, but it's not as great as everyone says it is.

Interesting reads.  (I haven't owned a console since Nintendo)  Is it safe to say that Nintendo & Microsoft will be limited by their processor muscle while Sony will be limited by the graphics then?  If that's the case, I think Ravant might be right.

My old 233p1 played real nice when I had dual voodoo2 cards in it.  Took some time to load a game, but it played nice.

[GGKoul]

I assume if Sony, with the Cell technology, is allowing the CPU to  perform 10 instruction sequences at once.  They will develop componets to keep up with the processor. 

[Ravant]

Well, that's what I thought when Sony released the emotion engine in the PS2. Sony is lucky they had such a strong 3rd party support with their games, or the PS2 would have sunk them, and sunk them hard. The emotion engine was a serious bottleneck on the PS2. Supposedly, they're beefing it up some and dropping it into the PS3. Here's the issue: ATI cards render 8+ graphical pipelines per pass. If the PS3's graphics processor follows a similar chipset to what they were using, they'll only be able to render a maximum of 4 graphical pipelines simultaneously. The processing capabilities will be cut in half right there. The CPU will have to take on the other half of the work to match the Next-box and the new Nintendo system, so it will HAVE to be twice as fast physically, to do the same work.

The same principle existed between the X-Box and Nintendo Gamecube. The X-Box was on an NVedia chipset that only rendered 4 pipelines at a time, and the Gamecube worked off of an experimental ATI Chipset that had 8 layers drawn simultaneously. The GCN only had a 450 MHz CPU, however still produced games graphically equivalent or graphically superior, in some cases, to the X-Box, which ran a CPU of ~800 MHz.

The issue is, if Sony follows their past, they're also going to annoy some of their strongest 3rd party supporters. Square-Enix is still annoyed at Sony for not licensing Crystal Chronicles, hence why they went back to Nintendo for that game. (If Sony lost the Final Fantasy series, they'd be sunk.) And don't forget how many Sony supporters switched to Nintendo once the Resident Evil series was redone on the 'cube. (Resident Evil 4 is one of the most amazing games I've played... graphically, and gameplay wise.... it's incredible.)

Once again, I'm willing to predict Sony will only be saved by its 3rd party support, cell chip or not, and the true processing powerhouses will be showcased in the NextBox and the new Nintendo system.

Quick Edit: Also - think of what Nintendo and their third parties are capable of doing with such a small ammount of actual processing capabilities available to them. Remember Conker's Bad Fur Day on the Nintendo 64? That game, for what it was, was a technical marvel, not to mention hilarious. Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, Conker's Bad Fur Day and Donkey Kong 64 were all perfect examples of what can be done on such a small ammount of true power. Then look at what was done on the Gamecube, with Rogue Squadron 2 and 3, the Resident Evil series, FF:Crystal Chronicles, and the cell shaded masterpiece, Legend of Zelda: Windwaker.

I've got my bet on Nintendo for this round.... rumors have it they're offering a service like X-Box Live, only for free. They weren't releasing the network capabilities on the 'cube because they were developing and saving for something further down the line. This is still yet an unconfirmed rumor floating around the IGN Message boards, but there has been a lot of posts deleted at the request of Nintendo of America... which seems a little suspicious to me...

[GGKoul]

Great Post...

I guess some of our questions will be answered at the E3 conference in May.

Just wondering if you know who is providing the graphics engine for the Xbox2, Gamecube64 and PS3?

[Daniel270]

All I really can say about this is ...

unless the PS3 can play PS2 games (like the PS2 did with PSOne), I'm most likely not staying in the console market....  Stuff's getting more and more expensive and harder to afford on a limited budget.

[Ravant]

Great Post...

I guess some of our questions will be answered at the E3 conference in May.

Just wondering if you know who is providing the graphics engine for the Xbox2, Gamecube64 and PS3?

Thanks. And yeah, most of our questions should be answered, unless Nintendo decides to remain secretive, as usual, those dirty bums.

The next Nintendo system should be using an ATI GPU. According to their website, they still have strong business ties with ATI. It would be stupid of Nintendo to not take advantage of it and use the new 64-bit pipelining ATI has in testing. Sony is using their own brand of GPU, so no word on how good it's going to be... supposedly equivalent to an NVedia chipset... (Personally don't like NVedia, but that's only an opinion.) and the NextBox is still yet un-announced, though ATI may go bi-partisan an support Microsoft and Nintendo. It's more profitable, I guess?

[DaveMMR]

A friend of mine, who used to work for Acclaim, had the displeasure of working with it. In his words, the PS2's emotion engine and graphics capabilities are so painfully restricting and so rediculously odd to program for that it almost doesn't pay to port a game to the PS2. If the PS3 is using a similar chipset, even if it is upgraded, and if they're using similar code-bases, then the PS3 will be SERIOUSLY bottlenecked by its graphics processors. Both Microsoft and Nintendo are supposedly using 64 bit processing with ATI graphics chipsets. Nintendo is sticking with their solid IBM PowerPC, however a significantly upgraded, 64 bit processor. Personally, if you want my prediction, the next console battle is going to be between Nintendo and Microsoft.

I suppose your friend is out of a job now, huh?  Anyway, yeah the PS2 was the most graphically limited of the three systems - but it has the largest installed based.  But does having a game available to more people (the PS2 owners) more than make up the time and effort involved with dealing with more complicated hardware?  I'd say more than definately.

The unfortuante thing is that Sony can put the weakest next-gen components in there and they'll still sell tons.  The average consumer couldn't care less about the chipset used - they're going to buy the PS3 over the next X-Box and GC simply because of brand recognition, software selection (PS games run a broader spectrum of interests than the others), limited exclusives (Grand Theft Auto) and their earlier release date of the system itself.  And they don't have to worry about programmers griping about how hard it'll be to work with.  It's "get with the program or sell less product". 

VG history has never favored "the most powerful".  The Gameboy was the weakest of the handhelds but outlived all of them.  The NES was weaker than the SMS but knocked it out of the water.  And the original Playstation was the king when the other systems could run circles around it.  So my prediction will be PS3 and X-Box Next (whatever they're calling it).  Nintendo may still be around, but they have to shake that 'kiddie' image, stadt! 

And with no offense to your friend, I take Acclaim's gripes with a grain of salt.  They've botched games of every system.   Uh... yeah... may they rest in peace. 

[Yander]

Nintendo has to shake their kiddie image and not get to focused on "innovation". Nintendo made a few bad moves with the GCN (cellshaded Zelda and lack of lan/online play to name a few) but  if they don't deviate to much from mainstream and they make a system that is cosmetically cool they will do strong. But hey why the hell do I care as long as they still deliver zelda.

[DaveMMR]

It wasn't the Gamecube they made the bad moves with.  It was the N64.  Sticking with cartridges KILLED them.

By the way, I like my GC, XB and PS2 equally, so this is not some fanboy rant.  With that, here's where the GC went wrong in my opinion:

Proprietary discs:  Nope, it won't double as a DVD player or a CD player. 

Oddball controllers:  Yeah, the original X-Box controllers were bad, but at least there was some symmetry.  The GC controller has different shaped buttons, uncomfortable to press shoulders and an almost always overlooked X-Button.

No Mario game at launch: Yeah, that was a bummer.  And Sunshine, when it was finally released, wasn't as an advancement in gameplay as the others were.

No online strategy: They have two games online enabled.

Lack of exclusive 3rd party gems:  Yeah the Nintendo games are top notch.  But the 3rd party ones are done better on other systems.  Yeah, I know there are exceptions (Twin Snakes), but not very many.

Still looks like a toy: That little box is cute but to some guy in his 20's and 30's who's not part of the hardcore, it looks a little silly on the entertainment rack.

Zelda turned cartoonish:  Okay, no hate replies.  Wind Waker is a great game by all means.  But the cartoony cel-shading made it seem... well... childish.  I was hoping for something more lifelike.

Requiring peripherals for full enjoyment of a game: Okay, so I had to buy Metroid for the GBA and a link cable just to enjoy the extra content (original Metroid) on Metroid: Prime.  And Animal Crossing keeps making me feel bad if I don't have that card reader.  Peripherals dug Sega's grave guys - knock it off!

Still, it's a fun little system.  I just hope they address these problems in the next round.

[Ravant]

And with no offense to your friend, I take Acclaim's gripes with a grain of salt.

[shmokes]

Ravant seems pretty confidant, so I'm not so sure, but I was under the distinct impression that ATI was the confirmed developer of the graphics chips for both Microsoft and Nintendo and Nvidia was confirmed for the PS3.

And, yeah.  Nintendo's going to be third, IMO.  It's ALL about 3rd party support and 3rd party support is ALL about userbase.  The average videogamer is an adult and Nintendo is stuck with a kiddie stigma.  If WELL over half of videogame players don't want your system because they feel like it's for kids you're going to have a snowballing effect.  3rd parties won't develop for your system.  The lack of games makes people less likely to pick up the system.  The fact that people aren't picking up the system further deters 3rd parties from developing.  That further deterence further deters people from buying the system, etc. etc. etc.  Companies that have already been burned by the small userbase of N64 and Gamecube will be wary going in.  Nintendo has an uphill battle.

[Ravant]

It may be developed by NVedia, but I was told that it would be so heavily customized of an application that it might as well be branded with a Sony name. As for Nintendo's uphill battle, they've had it since halfway through the N64 years.... however with Square-Enix slowly pulling away from Sony and back to Nintendo, with Capcom trying to make the RE series Microsoft/Nintendo, and other big-name games trying their best to avoid working with the emotion engine to morph any 3d model realistically (example, a moving mouth), I'm not so sure about the PS3's success.

The Cell chip is very impressive, yes, but the software is slowly driving developers insane. I know for a fact that Epic will refuse to port their Unreal 3 engine to work on the PS3 hardware, for the shear fact that it would be too much of a pain in the neck, and would require so many man-hours that it would not be economically feasable.  Other companies are slowly starting on this trend as well. I'm just pointing out a few observations. Again, you're right about the childish stigma that Nintendo has, but I would like to point out, that percentage-wise, Nintendo had the highest percentage of Teen or above rated games out of all three systems. If I knew where the link was on Gamespot, I'd snag it, but I've got a presentation due for BUS-320 tomorrow that I should be practicing.

[GGKoul]

If it wasn't for the success of the Pokeman series during the lean N64 days.  Nintendo would have been dead and be out of the hardware business like Sega. 

[DarkKobold]

I think Nintendo should actually stick to its roots of childish games. They have that market cornered. Now granted, it isn't the biggest market (i.e. males ages 18-34), but it is a large market.

As for consoles, it has never been a hardware game. Look at SegaCD, look at Sega Saturn, Atari Jaguar, etc. All were top hardware in their day. Now, we could argue price point till we are blue in the face, but it would be a pointless argument.

It is all about the games. Just as Pokemon saved nintendo, Master Chief and his Halo are saving the XBOX.

Someone said it earlier. PS3 will win hands down if it plays PS2 games. Easily.

Now can we all get back to hating EA?

[GGKoul]

I think Nintendo should actually stick to its roots of childish games. They have that market cornered. Now granted, it isn't the biggest market (i.e. males ages 18-34), but it is a large market.

As for consoles, it has never been a hardware game. Look at SegaCD, look at Sega Saturn, Atari Jaguar, etc. All were top hardware in their day. Now, we could argue price point till we are blue in the face, but it would be a pointless argument.

It is all about the games. Just as Pokemon saved nintendo, Master Chief and his Halo are saving the XBOX.

Someone said it earlier. PS3 will win hands down if it plays PS2 games. Easily.

Now can we all get back to hating EA?

I'm a big Sega & EA fan, but even though Sega release consoles way ahead of there time.  They undersold because Sega failed to put out together a proper marketing plan and suffered from lack of 3rd party support.

Same thing happened to Nintendo during the lean N64 years.  As the popular N64 games where developed by Nintendo.  Pokeman, Mario Party Series....

[Dexter]

Not to start a huge fight, but the cell technology is almost as over-rated as Honda's VTec technology.

V-tec over rated? 15 million v-tec engine units produced and NOT ONE failing while still under warranty? 240 bhp from a 2 litre normally aspirated engine in the s2000?

Over rated? First time I've ever heard it called that. I owned a del-sol with a 1.6 vtec and it was the best powerplant I ever had out of the 10 cars I have owned. Blistering performance, economical and completely reliable.

How can you over-rate that?

[Ravant]

Not to start a huge fight, but the cell technology is almost as over-rated as Honda's VTec technology.

V-tec over rated? 15 million v-tec engine units produced and NOT ONE failing while still under warranty? 240 bhp from a 2 litre normally aspirated engine in the s2000?

Over rated? First time I've ever heard it called that. I owned a del-sol with a 1.6 vtec and it was the best powerplant I ever had out of the 10 cars I have owned. Blistering performance, economical and completely reliable.

How can you over-rate that?

My apologies in getting off-topic, but it's not V-Tec that creates 240 BHP from a 2.0 liter engine. It's the fact that it's a dual-overhead cam engine that forces 240 horses out of that tiny engine. GM Released a 3.4 liter DOHC engine in the Chevrolet Camaro in 1995 that produced 395 horsepower. It didn't have a variable valve timing system, and a standard SOHC 3.4 liter V6 only produces 235 horsepower. V-Tec is a variable valve timing technology originally developed by General Motors in 1972 for the Nova, but never released it for the sole fact that, at the time, it was far too expensive to impliment, and sold it to Honda. Since then, GM has created their own, better VVT technology. V-Tec is a technology that changes the timing of the engine in the higher band of your RPM range to get more efficient exhaust capabilities at 7000+ RPM's. The issue with the 2 liter V-Tec in the S-2000 is not its horsepower, but its torque. 240 horsepower is nice for giving it a top speed of about 150-something MPH, but its torque rating is barely high enough to make it worth its money in 0-60 times.

As for not ONE failing, I owned a 1996 Honda Accord, V-Tec I4, and at 36,000 miles, the crank-shaft snapped, threw debris into the engine and forced me to get an entire engine replaced. 36,000 miles. It was still under warrantee. Laughable. My Monte Carlo lasted longer than that, and it has a known head-gasket issue. I've had that 3.1 liter V6 for 137,000 miles without a hitch until I swapped it out for a 3.4 liter V6, which I then turbocharged. A Del Sol is still a Honda Civic no matter how many ways you slice it. There is no such thing as 'blistering performance' out of a 1.6 liter I4. I've seen 1.3 liter V-Twins produce more power than the DOHC V-Tec engine in the Del Sol.

If you want true performance and technology that's worth something, look at GM's new 5.3 liter V8 with VVT and DoD... Variable valve timing, just like the over-rated V-Tec... and Displacement on Demand, meaning it shuts down half the engine and runs four cylinders while cruising, then when you floor it, the other four cylinders kick in and produce a massive 323 horsepower and 349 ft-lbs of torque. If you want a good technology that's far from over-rated, look at Displacement on Demand offered by General Motors and MOPAR. Besides, if I wanted an import, I'd prefer an Impreza WRX, preferably an STi.

[Dexter]

As for not ONE failing, I owned a 1996 Honda Accord, V-Tec I4, and at 36,000 miles, the crank-shaft snapped, threw debris into the engine and forced me to get an entire engine replaced. 36,000 miles. It was still under warrantee. Laughable. My Monte Carlo lasted longer than that, and it has a known head-gasket issue. I've had that 3.1 liter V6 for 137,000 miles without a hitch until I swapped it out for a 3.4 liter V6, which I then turbocharged. A Del Sol is still a Honda Civic no matter how many ways you slice it. There is no such thing as 'blistering performance' out of a 1.6 liter I4. I've seen 1.3 liter V-Twins produce more power than the DOHC V-Tec engine in the Del Sol.

!

Honda are using that no fails under waranty blurb to sell cars. You should make some calls!!

In Ireland insurance and tax (not to mention petrol) are so crazy expensive that most people are extremely restricted in the cars they drive. The del-sol, due to its weight, low centre of gravity and power for a 1.6 was a hell of a car for over here. Would love to try a 5 litre but as for owning, it would be well out of my scope affordability wise.

Bad luck on the crank. That was unlucky. Anybody else got horror stories with japanese motors??

[Shape D.]

Quick Edit: Also - think of what Nintendo and their third parties are capable of doing with such a small ammount of actual processing capabilities available to them. Remember Conker's Bad Fur Day on the Nintendo 64? That game, for what it was, was a technical marvel, not to mention hilarious. Perfect Dark, Goldeneye, Conker's Bad Fur Day and Donkey Kong 64 were all perfect examples of what can be done on such a small ammount of true power. Then look at what was done on the Gamecube, with Rogue Squadron 2 and 3, the Resident Evil series, FF:Crystal Chronicles, and the cell shaded masterpiece, Legend of Zelda: Windwaker.

<Personal preferance>
I thought the style of graphics on windwalker sucked.

Zelda turned cartoonish: Okay, no hate replies. Wind Waker is a great game by all means. But the cartoony cel-shading made it seem... well... childish. I was hoping for something more lifelike.

I missed this part of your post. but I agree.

[shmokes]

I think that the art direction in Wind Waker was very likely the most inspired art direction in a game to date.  But I agree that from a marketing standpoint it was probably a questionable move.  I think it did turn off a lot of gamers that would have bought the same game with a more realistic "look".  I'm really glad they went the unconventional route, though.  I bleeping loved that game.

[DaveMMR]

I think that the art direction in Wind Waker was very likely the most inspired art direction in a game to date.  But I agree that from a marketing standpoint it was probably a questionable move.  I think it did turn off a lot of gamers that would have bought the same game with a more realistic "look".  I'm really glad they went the unconventional route, though.  I bleeping loved that game.

It helped gameplay wise in that Link's eyes would shift to something you should check out and also made for some breathtaking animation.  And yup, I love the game as well (just get bored with all the sailing, Christopher Cross).

What they need is some sort of adult Zelda game - though that's entirely a bad move.   I can't help but think of all the kids and parents who played the original Conker on the gameboy and then expected something wholesome on the N64 and, instead, got swearing and toilet humor. 

And to thing, if Nintendo just allowed blood in the original Mortal Kombat for the SNES, this would have been less of an issue. 

[blackzc]

Not to start a huge fight, but the cell technology is almost as over-rated as Honda's VTec technology.

V-tec over rated? 15 million v-tec engine units produced and NOT ONE failing while still under warranty? 240 bhp from a 2 litre normally aspirated engine in the s2000?

Over rated? First time I've ever heard it called that. I owned a del-sol with a 1.6 vtec and it was the best powerplant I ever had out of the 10 cars I have owned. Blistering performance, economical and completely reliable.

How can you over-rate that?

LOL the VTEC can nevar lose!!!1!
See SN, im a huge honda fan.

I think nintendo and MS will be the top 2 also, I see it this way, atari ruled for 8-9 years nintendo ruled for 10 years, sony has been ruling for 10 years.

People get tired of the same thing. That is one of the biggest factors of all.Nintendo saw this and kicked back the round and played it safe. Now is the time for them to go for a comeback.

[blackzc]

Not to start a huge fight, but the cell technology is almost as over-rated as Honda's VTec technology.

If you want true performance and technology that's worth something, look at GM's new 5.3 liter V8 with VVT and DoD... Variable valve timing, just like the over-rated V-Tec... and Displacement on Demand, meaning it shuts down half the engine and runs four cylinders while cruising, then when you floor it, the other four cylinders kick in and produce a massive 323 horsepower and 349 ft-lbs of torque. If you want a good technology that's far from over-rated, look at Displacement on Demand offered by General Motors and MOPAR. Besides, if I wanted an import, I'd prefer an Impreza WRX, preferably an STi.

323hp is nothing to brag about. DoD is a gas saver, nothing else. 349ft/lbs tourqe from a 5.3, no amount of enginering at all, thats alot of moving metal, it will make tourqe by default.

Nobody makes a car like honda. I have a 2000 ford focus BB value 4400$ A 94 civic LX BB? 3500. Thats resale.

[Ravant]

323hp is nothing to brag about. DoD is a gas saver, nothing else. 349ft/lbs tourqe from a 5.3, no amount of enginering at all, thats alot of moving metal, it will make tourqe by default.

Nobody makes a car like honda. I have a 2000 ford focus BB value 4400$ A 94 civic LX BB? 3500. Thats resale.

First things first, Ford sucks. Hands down. They released a 3.8 liter V6 that had less horsepower and less torque than the GM3100, a 3.1 liter V6.
Now let me get started on Honda. Sounds to me, black, like you are getting your information from some seriously biased sources. VTec is merely a variable valve timing system, originally designed by an american company, better known as General Motors. VTec does not add horsepower. At all. It is merely a way to stabilize the motor at higher RPM ranges (7k+) and keep the exhaust gasses flowing at an optimal rate.

[PacManFan]

Just to throw in my 2 cents worth of opinion here.

The Cell processor is probably the most revolutionary invention fo the past 20 years in computing. In short,(after developers get the hang of rpogramming it) it will allow real-time raytracing, real-time computation of dynamic lighting technique, much better AI, and probably a hundred other things.

The architecture of the cell processor is so radically different and parallelized, it can out perform any conventional processor architecture, and even emulate other chips (PowerPC, x86, etc..)  in real-time faster than other chips perform natively.

What does this mean? For the Gamer, Cell processers will be the standard in game consoles, and probably in graphics cards in the near future. It's performance is unmatched.

For the Joe average desktop PC user, a 6- Cell processer equip machine wil be the equivalent of 4x 2.6 p4's

-PMF

[Hoagie_one]

IM MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE POSSIBLILITIES OF THE CELL PROCESSOR IN COMPUTERS....WHEN DO WE GET TO SEE THAT?

[rtuneg35]

I love how this topic got turned to cars and I apologize for keeping it going.

How many late 70's early 80's hondas do you see still running on factory engines then look and see how many gm's in the same era are peoples daily drivers. Case in point. My first car was a an '89 nissan sentra with a 1.6 liter 12v sohc and throttle body injection. I kept it as a daily driver for 10 years racked up over 200k miles. One night the muffler fell off no big deal. well it sounded like a little jap racer. some punk kid in an '01 or newer civic (all dohc v-tecs) started popin and revin his little engine. I blew his doors of until we got to 65mph (thanks to revised gear ratios for higher speed limits) Now why again are you so hopped up on hondas? I rarely ever saw a honda raced out until the fast and furious movies started apearing.

[blackzc]

OK, one more and im done.

toyota has the patent to Variable vavle timing, they got it in 1972.

A dodge neon srt4 has a 2.4 220hp, a honda accord has a 2.4 200hp but the neon does it with 12 psi of boost!

give a honda 12 pounds of boost and what do you have. well on a D15 1.5 SOHC non vtec you get about (220) and that the junk ineficent motor your talking about. Move up to a B16 1.6 DOHC 1.6 VTEC and your looking at over 300hp with way less displacment tha the neon making and its big low reving 2.4

As for the F&F me and my freinds have been fixing up hondas since 95 so i quess the movie was inspired by guys like us.
 
I liked the movie but in hindsight it did more harm than good, now broke kids with no knowledge of cars or being faithful to the cars make the scene look bad.


ill leave you guys with a video clip . its 9meg so 56k may take

[Ravant]

Alright, fine. So the SRT-4 has forced induction. So does the Supra and Skyline, yet, stock-for-stock, the Corvette outperforms them immensely, naturally aspirated. (40 grand for a supra, 40 grand for a Corvette Coupe, corvette coupe wins, performance wise, while still getting 26 highway miles to the gallon on 89 octane gas. Not bad.) And as for the Fast&Furious, it spawned games like NFS:U and NFS:U2 that claimed a cold air intake gave you 20 freakin' horsepower. *sneeze* Sorry, I'm allergic to ---smurf-poo---. They also said a 2004 Hyundai Tiburon GT could outperform a 2004 GTO. Again. *sneeze* Sorry, but F&F as well as the Need For Speed Underground games, among others, spawned a ricer revolution.

Ricer: One who makes useless exterior modifications (rediculously oversized 747 wing on the back of a Civic Si hatchback, or an ugly body kit) and claims they can beat your seriously modded car.

FYI: My 3.4 liter SOHC V6 is currently producing 421 horsepower @ 5200 RPMs on only 9 pounds of boost on mostly stock internals. Hell, the stock transmission is even holding up well, and it's only rated to 300 horses.

Back on topic, finally... for good.

The architecture of the cell processor is so radically different and parallelized, it can out perform any conventional processor architecture, and even emulate other chips (PowerPC, x86, etc..) in real-time faster than other chips perform natively.

What does this mean? For the Gamer, Cell processers will be the standard in game consoles, and probably in graphics cards in the near future. It's performance is unmatched.

For the Joe average desktop PC user, a 6- Cell processer equip machine wil be the equivalent of 4x 2.6 p4's

-PMF

This post is well done. Here's the main issue. Will Sony allow for the emulation you speak of? Probably not. Will Sony make it easy for developers to utilize such advanced technology? Maybe. It depends on how early they release development tools. Will Sony allow for 3rd party graphics engines, such as Unreal 3 or other PC-ported games? Hopefully, for their sake. This technology, in and of itself, is amazing. But in true Sony fashion, judging by their work with the PS2, it'll start off at a rocket-pace, and probably surpass the other two systems at first, but mismanagement will more likely than not sink their boat.

[DaveMMR]

But in true Sony fashion, judging by their work with the PS2, it'll start off at a rocket-pace, and probably surpass the other two systems at first, but mismanagement will more likely than not sink their boat.

Sony's boat sinking?  I highly doubt that.  Your basing your assumptions on the PS2's life but that system is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition in sales.  And once again, it's the people who haven't a clue of what anyone is talking about in this thread who are going to keep Sony on top for the PS3.  They have several stong advantages (I mentioned them in a prior post). 

I'll be honest.  I could be wrong.  Maybe Microsoft will usurp Sony in the next console race.  But it won't be because of "mismanagement" on Sony's part.  If anything, Microsoft may have an ace up their sleeve. 

Here's the thing: if X-Box doesn't put in the backwards compatibility in their follow-up (there were rumors of  that feature being scrapped due to costs) then they don't stand a chance on topping Sony.  And even if they do add it, they'll need to offer more than the PS3 other than "better graphics".   

We will see in a couple of years how this turns out.

[rchadd]

Here's the thing: if X-Box doesn't put in the backwards compatibility in their follow-up (there were rumors of

[tommy]

im not sure where this fits in this convo but i remember when i had gc and a ps2 , i had soul caliber 2 for both i ran the both at the same time  and the gamecube loaded a hell of alot faster then the ps2 and prb looked better  nintendo will be king

[wrxh8r]

ps3 is having the latest gforce tech by nvidia in it according to the ces interview.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/display/ces2005.html  The beyond3d forums have plenty of speculation on these things and up to date info.Cell is capable of quite alot.I like that they are going in a new direction however i wouldnt expect to see them in the pc market anytime soon due to compatability.Im no programer or anything but even if it is new tech and difficult to program for isnt the xbox and nintendo also going a different route with the whole dual cpu theories and what not.Either way developers are going to have to learn to program differently for all the next gen systems.And each company seems to by trying to promote making programing easier on the developers.With all the slack the ps2 gets about how hard it was to program for comparing it to ps3 is harsh.We dont know whatl happen yet and sony have allready tried to change their ways with the psp which is apparently alot better.
As for the hondas.Honda rock and are in no way comparable to that other crap.The cars are so different its not funny and the comparisons that are getting used are so not anything alike.If you comape the 2 cars aimed at the same markets then i think we'll se honda coming out on top.And who the hell compares 5 litre tanks to small sporty jap cars anyway.The power to weight ratio of the japanese cars are in their favour and on top of that they have awsome handling as long as you dont want to drive in excess of 200km/h due to their light weight.Nissan skylines and mazda rx7s have been booted off heaps of race tracks for blitzing the previous records.Whats more with the unfair pricing that the US gets comparing price isnt exactly fair either especially when your talking engine power as a means of price.Im in New Zealand so i havnt driven many ammerican cars and the most expensive and fastest was anew mustang about a year ago.It didnt compare in anyway to a jap car.For your money you get a plain car with a big engine that goes fast and has no traction whatsoever.
Even the hond acords are 140kw now and handle pretty good.Or a type r integra for $31k US which is one of the fastest(handling)  front wheel drives you can get.

[Ravant]

ps3 is having the latest gforce tech by nvidia in it according to the ces interview.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/display/ces2005.html

[wrxh8r]

What i meant by money is it doesnt count.Its going to change depending on where in the world you are.Like here for instance why would i want to get an american car for extreme amounts of money when i can have a japanese one for cheap (that i like better ) 10k for a secondhand wrx or $1500 for an integra aint terible bang for your buck.From there its only another few thousand to pull some decent 1/4 mile times.
And youve got to admit if it aint big and bad and chews lots of gas, outside of the US you probably havnt heard of it.Hence the coments on tanks.Also a person is most likely going to like the styling of the cars they are used to.Same goes for a persons view of car interiors.
As for being riceriffic hell yeah.Jap cars are my fav but then again they are pretty much all i have to choose from except the odd terible import from america (ford Taurus anyone) why arnt they bringing over these nice sounding cars you describe.The odd euro (bmw or merc) and holdens.In fact when it comes to big bulky cars in nz there are 2 options a ford xr8 or a holden hsv.Funilly enough they are 2 of the best sellers in nz.

[megashock5]

As for Nintendo leaving the console business...

They may not sell as many machines as the competition, but make no mistake - they are still making tons of money. I believe they're making more profit in the games business than MS or Sony (I'll have to check that) and apparently have tons of surplus cash.

I think it would take several disasters in a row to knock them out. I'm hoping they stay around for a long time. With Sega gone from the hardware business, I want at least one company whose roots are in games to still be making machines. I miss Sega, they are a shadow of their former selves.

[pointdablame]

What i meant by money is it doesnt count.Its going to change depending on where in the world you are.Like here for instance why would i want to get an american car for extreme amounts of money when i can have a japanese one for cheap (that i like better ) 10k for a secondhand wrx or $1500 for an integra aint terible bang for your buck.From there its only another few thousand to pull some decent 1/4 mile times.
And youve got to admit if it aint big and bad and chews lots of gas, outside of the US you probably havnt heard of it.Hence the coments on tanks.Also a person is most likely going to like the styling of the cars they are used to.Same goes for a persons view of car interiors.
As for being riceriffic hell yeah.Jap cars are my fav but then again they are pretty much all i have to choose from except the odd terible import from america (ford Taurus anyone) why arnt they bringing over these nice sounding cars you describe.The odd euro (bmw or merc) and holdens.In fact when it comes to big bulky cars in nz there are 2 options a ford xr8 or a holden hsv.Funilly enough they are 2 of the best sellers in nz.

you actually just proved that you shouldn't be in this argument.  Your point of view is horribly skewed because, in your own confessions, you don't have a lot to base comparisons on.  You've driven a Mustang... prolly a stock mustang as well which is far from exhilirating.  You don't have the american "tanks" in your country, so you base your ideas on what you know.  If I lived in Germany and only saw Mercedes on teh road (and I know that's not the case in Germany, just run with me here), and everyone was saying how MB is the best and nothign else compares, what opinions do you think I'd have.

My point: you like Jap cars cuz they are available, not necessarily because they are "better"  I won't get into a rice/domestic rant, cuz I love all cars, but your argument seems a bit silly.  There are plenty of jap cars that are light on power and not very interesting, and there are plenty of american "tanks" that can spank most Jap cars.  And vice versa. 

These arguments always make me laugh.  Oh, and as far as "you're only a bit of money away from good 1/4 times" - heh.... ANYTHING is capable of good times with enough money. ANYTHING.  I know what you mean... but that's always been a silly comment in my mind.