New Product: GP-Wiz - 32-input Fast USB Controls Interface

[Tiger-Heli]

Cool link.  But I think making a box to support several of them would be a more efficient use for the GP-Wiz.

More efficient, agreed, but there's just something cool about being able to take what looks like an original NES controller and plug it into any computer's USB port.

That was thrown out as something you could do iif you wanted to, but it would have to be one of the larger retro controls like the NES arcade stick (which I already used an Eco with for a friend)

That would be cool.

I will take a look at the Joy2Key software to see how well it performs.

I don't know either, but it's been out for a long time and a lot of people have mentioned it.

Heh.  I only meant that if you have 5 sub-panels, there's a lot of work involved figuring all that out regardless of the interface used.  But once you have it set the way you want it, no problems.

Okay, that makes sense.  Of course I thrive on figuring out all the details and whatnot like that (it's a curse).

True, but MAME games like afterbuner need it, as will Nintendo 64 or Playstation or Dreamcast (I think) emulation.
 
Understandable, but these will most likely still work with digital controls.

Actually, not very well. . . it's the other way around - As you know, I spent years playing MAME with a PC flightstick and only recently with digital joysticks.  1942 and Pac-Man are playable in MAME on a Flightstick (except for the sloppiness and long throw), but it's near impossible to play Paperboy or Star Wars with a digital joystick.

And until someone starts selling an arcade quality analog stick for a price comparable to the digital ones the majority of us use now,  a conventional PC stick with it's own interface might be the best choice.

Agreed, or for that matter, you buy an arcade stick on E-bay, gut a $15 USB PC stick and off you go!

[SirPoonga]

Note:

[SteveJ34]

For $23 + shipping for one with header this might just be the answer to my woes for the redoctane xbox based hacked fighter CPs with PCBs gone bad.....

[RandyT]

Note:  Some gamepads are clunky in the implementation of their buttons and would never work as directional controls. 

So this would be good for DDR

Absolutely.   So long as you can select any button to equal your arrows in the controller set-up.

Interesting related note:  No directional device can be in opposite directions at the same time, so any application which uses arrows (like a dance pad) and where opposing directions of those arrows are to be actuated at the same time, must use something other than a directional control. I.e.  Buttons

It's programmable like everything else, right?  The labels on the board are just defaults/mame setup.

Not this time around. There were several reasons for this decision:

-Due to the whole directional thing above, a joystick control should stay a joystick control.

-Unlike a keyboard control, where specific keys can be expected to perform specific functions with the computer in a general sense, there is very little distinction between button 2 and button 20 on a gamepad.

-It's a simple matter for programmers to allow controls to be re-defined by the software and since button layouts vary wildly on game controls, this ability is standard fare on almost all games.


Programmability adds an unnecessary level of complexity to the device and would just duplicate the above.   One only needs to pick a configuration they are comfortable with and set up the application(s) appropriately.

Or, if you're lazy, you can hook up the joystick inputs as required and then just make sure the buttons are hooked to any of the button inputs.  All you have to do then is run the configuration editor for the game/application one time, click on the action and then hit the button on the panel you want it to be equated to.  No thinking necessary!

Have a pic of it next to a quarter or something else for size comparison.  Even though I know how big a 40 pin header is.

Think KeyWiz Eco2.  It's the same size.

RandyT

[OSCAR]

But since then, I have sold at least as many KeyWiz's as Oscar has sold spinners, to very satisfied customers, I am proud to add.

Hmmm, curious that you would have the information to make such an assessment.  There is only one person that would know how many spinners I have sold, and she might even share that info with me since I brought her paczki today.   

If you would prefer to make an informed statement like that rather than just speculate, please email me and we can discuss.


BTW, nice little USB board.  I think I have a future project that can make use of such an interface! 

Later,


Kelsey

[Jakobud]

I have to say, this is a cool product!  It's so funny, I was just thinking like 2 weeks ago about how nice it would be to have someone develop a kit like this for gamepads! 

RandyT, one question, when you plug this guy in, what is the name that shows up in the Windows Control Panel Gaming Devices?  What happens when you have multiple ones plugged in?  Is there a way to distinguish which ones are which?  I am just wondering so that perhaps if you are in a game and you are wanting to set up your controls and it lists the gamepad devices that are attached, if they are both the same name.. do yo just have to rememeber that the first one in the list is the first one you plugged in?

[RandyT]

But since then, I have sold at least as many KeyWiz's as Oscar has sold spinners, to very satisfied customers, I am proud to add.

Hmmm, curious that you would have the information to make such an assessment.  There is only one person that would know how many spinners I have sold, and she might even share that info with me since I brought her paczki today.   

If you would prefer to make an informed statement like that rather than just speculate, please email me and we can discuss.

]

Hehe.  You made a public announcement a while back regarding  quantities and I extrapolated the rest .

But yes, it was speculation....guilty as charged 

BTW, nice little USB board.  I think I have a future project that can make use of such an interface! 

Thanks!  That new spinner is pretty kickin' as well

RandyT

[OSCAR]

Hehe.  You made a public announcement a while back regarding  quantities and I extrapolated the rest .

But yes, it was speculation....guilty as charged 

Understood, no harm no foul.  Just the problem with extrapolating data such as that is that is doesn't take into consideration any new contracts or deals I have made since then...     As "people in the know", we both know how the MAME cab business has exploded more than most of those that read these boards realize.

Thanks!  That new spinner is pretty kickin' as well

RandyT

And thank you as well!!

Later, Randy.


Kelsey

[RandyT]

RandyT, one question, when you plug this guy in, what is the name that shows up in the Windows Control Panel Gaming Devices?

At the moment  you see a "GP-Wiz" for every one connected, but this is about to change.

  What happens when you have multiple ones plugged in?  Is there a way to distinguish which ones are which?  I am just wondering so that perhaps if you are in a game and you are wanting to set up your controls and it lists the gamepad devices that are attached, if they are both the same name.. do yo just have to rememeber that the first one in the list is the first one you plugged in?

I will be giving them individual names and device numbers so  that they appear to be completely different devices to Windows.  I.e. GP-Wiz, GP-Wiz-2, GP-Wiz-3, etc...  This just means a little more effort on my end to keep them straight, but I'm more than willing to go that route if it's preferred and keeps things simpler for the users.

I had some other questions on here, but they have become moot.  Unless there are objections to the above, this is the route I will take.

If anyone has any comments or suggestions related to the above, please chime in.

Thanks,
RandyT

[SteveJ34]

Watchin' for these to be posted for sale online.....where be them USB cables?

I assume they are still in transit and item will be posted any day now.

I have 2 of 4 xbox pad based CPs with USB convertors given as gifts last year with PCBs gone bad, this looks like just the ticket to "fix and forget".

I've got a 6 and 7 year old buggin' me every day to get their "arcades" workin again.

[RandyT]

Watchin' for these to be posted for sale online.....where be them USB cables?

I assume they are still in transit and item will be posted any day now.

I have 2 of 4 xbox pad based CPs with USB convertors given as gifts last year with PCBs gone bad, this looks like just the ticket to "fix and forget".

I've got a 6 and 7 year old buggin' me every day to get their "arcades" workin again.

Sorry Steve,

USB Cables = Sunny West Coast,  Me = Freeze Yer butt off  NorthEast 

Unfortunately that comes out to an 8 day  ride for them.   However, if you have your own USB A-B cables kicking around, check out the site sometime after 12am  tonight 

RandyT

[RandyT]

If you have your own cable, the GP-Wiz is now available at :

The GroovyGameGear.com Web Store

Please let me know if anyone has any questions.  I will let everyone know when the cables arrive.

Thanks,
RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

At the moment  you see a "GP-Wiz" for every one connected, but this is about to change.

This is bad - Okay for standalone controllers where it will follow a first-in first-out scheme, but bad for cabinets where the GP-Wiz is permanently plugged in and the device will be randomly (on some systems) as Mouse1 or Mouse3,etc. on boot-up.

  What happens when you have multiple ones plugged in?  Is there a way to distinguish which ones are which?  I am just wondering so that perhaps if you are in a game and you are wanting to set up your controls and it lists the gamepad devices that are attached, if they are both the same name.. do yo just have to rememeber that the first one in the list is the first one you plugged in?

Assuming that it works like gamepads currently would (of the same brand), in which case, first in gets the lowest number, however, for standalone, it's not really a big deal, unless you REALLY want to use Ctlr.cfg files.  Otherwise, just plug it in, go to Input this game and press the button and MAME will match the settings.  Worst case, you might have to swap controllers if you forgot the order you plugged them in.

I will be giving them individual names and device numbers so  that they appear to be completely different devices to Windows.  I.e. GP-Wiz, GP-Wiz-2, GP-Wiz-3, etc...  This just means a little more effort on my end to keep them straight, but I'm more than willing to go that route if it's preferred and keeps things simpler for the users.

This will be a big improvement, IMHO. . .

By the way, USB A-B cables are less than $10 at Micro Center (I bought a bunch when they were on sale for about $2.99, but haven't seen that in a while (if there's one near you) and really cheap on-line, for anyone that needs them.

[AndyWarne]

No analog inputs?

[Tiger-Heli]

No analog inputs?  Why?  It's the one thing that nobody has... a non-hacked, cheap, analog interface solution. 

But then I shelved the whole thing. The reason was I found that apps, including MAME don't seem to perform well when there is an analog gamepad device present. I did not do much research on the cause of this problem, whether it was Windows or the app itself. The problem is, so few games use analog that having a performance hit on the vast majority that don't use it, was unacceptable. I get quite a few emails from people complaining about button sticking or mouse (trackball) stuttering and the solution is usually "turn off joystick support".
I might do some more investigation into this at some point.

I can verify this (somewhat) as well.  When I had a PC joystick for MAME, I had to disable it in the mouse games.  However, this was a PC gameport joystick and not USB and I always assumed it was just poor calibration of the gameport under Win98.

<Tiger-Heli makes mental note to verify joystick support is set to 0 in mame.ini file>

[Silver]

So this performance is issue is both Mame32 and Mame? I had hoped it was just Mame....

In the games where you would enable analogue joystick support is there a performance hit as well as the games where it is not used?

Also does disabling the input within Mame thourhg the Tab-menus solve this? If so surely its a matter of changing the default controller setup to always have this disabled?

No doubt I'm missing something obvious....

[Tiger-Heli]

This is based on my experience rather than what Andy is describing (not sure whether they are the same thing or not)

So this performance is issue is both Mame32 and Mame? I had hoped it was just Mame....

I would assume so.  To me, it's not a performance issue as much as a control issue.  - The cursor would start drifting when it shouldn't because the joystick lost calibration and was feeding inputs to MAME when it shouldn't have been.

In the games where you would enable analogue joystick support is there a performance hit as well as the games where it is not used?

Well, yes, I guess, b/c MAME has to poll the joystick port, but you can't play those games with a digital stick (very well, see above), so you take the performance hit if you want to play the games.  I didn't notice it in these games, though.

Also does disabling the input within Mame thourhg the Tab-menus solve this?

Yes

If so surely its a matter of changing the default controller setup to always have this disabled?

It's a little simpler than that.  In MAME it's a matter of setting joystick 0 in the MAME.ini and then joystick 1 in the analogjoystickgamename.ini.  In MAME32 it's a matter of setting Inputs Controllers to Joystick unchecked and then the individual game settings to enable it.

No doubt I'm missing something obvious....

Don't think so.

[tetsujin]

  What happens when you have multiple ones plugged in?  Is there a way to distinguish which ones are which?  I am just wondering so that perhaps if you are in a game and you are wanting to set up your controls and it lists the gamepad devices that are attached, if they are both the same name.. do yo just have to rememeber that the first one in the list is the first one you plugged in?

I will be giving them individual names and device numbers so  that they appear to be completely different devices to Windows.  I.e. GP-Wiz, GP-Wiz-2, GP-Wiz-3, etc...  This just means a little more effort on my end to keep them straight, but I'm more than willing to go that route if it's preferred and keeps things simpler for the users.

I had some other questions on here, but they have become moot.  Unless there are objections to the above, this is the route I will take.

If anyone has any comments or suggestions related to the above, please chime in.

Does this mean you've observed the "game devices switch around at startup" effect?  Did you have to do anything odd to make it happen or did it just happen?

[RandyT]

  What happens when you have multiple ones plugged in?  Is there a way to distinguish which ones are which?  I am just wondering so that perhaps if you are in a game and you are wanting to set up your controls and it lists the gamepad devices that are attached, if they are both the same name.. do yo just have to rememeber that the first one in the list is the first one you plugged in?

I will be giving them individual names and device numbers so  that they appear to be completely different devices to Windows.  I.e. GP-Wiz, GP-Wiz-2, GP-Wiz-3, etc...  This just means a little more effort on my end to keep them straight, but I'm more than willing to go that route if it's preferred and keeps things simpler for the users.

I had some other questions on here, but they have become moot.  Unless there are objections to the above, this is the route I will take.

If anyone has any comments or suggestions related to the above, please chime in.

Does this mean you've observed the "game devices switch around at startup" effect?  Did you have to do anything odd to make it happen or did it just happen?

Actually just the opposite.  I couldn't make it happen, regardless of what I did.  I only tested with 98SE, Win2K and WinXP.

But, after Jakobud mentioned selecting cotrollers in the "Gaming Devices"  dialog, it spawned a vague memory of some older games allowing one to use that dialog to select the control from.  I decided that for "ease of use" reasons, the additional units should have  a different name and product ID code, rather than plain serialization, which I understand the HID drivers for the Mac OS mostly ignore (from what I have read.)

RandyT

[Tiger-Heli]

Does this mean you've observed the "game devices switch around at startup" effect?  Did you have to do anything odd to make it happen or did it just happen?

I may be jumping the gun here.  The problem occurs if the devices have the same identifier to Windows (in addition to the same name in the Windows Display Panel).

I haven't seen it but all my trackballs/mouse/gamepad stuff is standalone and normally unplugged so unlikely that I would.

PaigeOliver has mentioned it numerous times before.  As I understand it, it just happens.  Most often it is seen when you use the same model of mouse hack for two different trackballs, spinners, etc.

For example, if you have a Kensington Mouse and a Microsoft Mouse - Windows will reserve a slot number for it and they will never swap order, even if you unplug and replug them in (they will move up MAME's food chain, though).  But if they are both Kensington Mice, Windows may swap them on reboot.

MAME has since upped the total to I believe 8 rather than 4 gamepads, but more info is available here  (linked question and the following three questions) and here.

I also know that DaveB allows you to specify a different identifier for each AKI (up to nine, I believe) to avoid this problem.

[Jakobud]

Thanks for answering the questions, RandyT.  I think what you said about automatically assigning GP-Wiz names/id's when multiple are plugged in is just fine.

Now, I have one idea for you that perhaps you should consider...  How about offering a version of the GP-Wiz that doesn't have the USB connection on it? 

This reason I am thinking about this is so it would pretty much cut the heighth of the device in half, allowing one to imbed a GP-Wiz inside a control pad (like a NES, SNES, Genesis, TG16, etc).  All the user would do is solder the 4 USB wires in.

On a side note, this would make the device slightly cheaper and it would be less work for you.

Would be nice to have that option to create a real hard-wired device like this.  I'd probably end up just removing the USB connection on my own anyways if I tried this, but I'd thought I'd just throw out that suggestion to you.

[Tiger-Heli]

Now, I have one idea for you that perhaps you should consider...  How about offering a version of the GP-Wiz that doesn't have the USB connection on it? 

Just my 0.02, I see your point but I think there would be a VERY limited market for this.  And - anyone that would want to mount this in a controller and solder wires to it, will have the technical ability to desolder the connector as well.

[tetsujin]

You're still going to have the combined height of the circuit board and the microcontroller, though...  I think you'd have a hard time fitting that into a console controller without cutting out part of the original board to make space.  (Especially for small ones like NES).  Counting the height of the chip above and the chip's pins below the board, it's probably going to be around 6mm in height.

What would really be useful for that kind of conversion would be a similar encoder made with surface-mount components.  Between the surface-mount and reducing the number of inputs to save space, one could probably come up with an encoder board small enough to fit in almost any standard controller housing without removing the original board.

[RandyT]

Thanks for the suggestions/observations.

It could very well be 6mm, but I'll take a measurement of the height of the unit without a connector this evening and edit this post with the info.

Tiger-Heli is right in that the market for this would probably be pretty limited, but I don't mind special versions for those who need them in a certain configuration. 

Which brings me to another point.  If there's a product we manufacture and you want a small change like this, please feel free to discuss it with me in an email.  If it's just a matter of us doing something a little differently, or as in this case not doing something at all,  we won't have any problem accomodating your wishes.  It may spare you the cost of the part and some work on your end.

If there are sufficient quantities involved, custom chip labels and device names in the Gaming Controls dialogue are also no problem. 

We aim to please

RandyT

[Hoagie_one]

speaking of special orders...

where's our 4way\8way\49way\q-bert\analog\digital switchable with a machanical \ optical switchable rotary control and multiple button topfire with a thumb accesable trackball on the handle with adjustable throw and spring tension balltop?

[RandyT]

speaking of special orders...

where's our 4way\8way\49way\q-bert\analog\digital switchable with a machanical \ optical switchable rotary control and multiple button topfire with a thumb accesable trackball on the handle with adjustable throw and spring tension balltop?

I had a working device like that designed last year, but I decided not to market it because Pr0nMAME skipped a few frames when you twisted the ball-top and rubbed it's tummy too fast.

RandyT

[tetsujin]

where's our 4way\8way\49way\q-bert\analog\digital switchable with a machanical \ optical switchable rotary control and multiple button topfire with a thumb accesable trackball on the handle with adjustable throw and spring tension balltop?

I had a working device like that designed last year, but I decided not to market it because Pr0nMAME skipped a few frames when you twisted the ball-top and rubbed its tummy too fast.

Could the rotary double as a spinner?  What kind of spin times did you get from it?

[Hoagie_one]

ADDENDUM:  NEED A CLUTCH SWITCH TO DISENGAGE THE ROTARY AND MAKE IT A SPINNER

sorry about the caps

[RandyT]

No analog inputs?  Why?  It's the one thing that nobody has... a non-hacked, cheap, analog interface solution. 

I can offer a reason for this. I designed an analog gamepad USB device with a shedload of buttons last year. The Mini-PAC board has the hardware capability of analog but it's not used by the firmware. But then I shelved the whole thing. The reason was I found that apps, including MAME don't seem to perform well when there is an analog gamepad device present. I did not do much research on the cause of this problem, whether it was Windows or the app itself.

Andy, I believe the context that this question was asked in was why  the GP-Wiz didn't have analog inputs, and I assure you that it has nothing to do with what you just mentioned.  I could go through a long tirade about how there is very little difference between digital and analog operation on the USB (ie. output)  side of the device, but that's a long winded and technical discussion best suited for a different thread. 

No offense, but it sounds as though your difficulties might have been related to your specific implementation of the device, as I have not experienced  what you are describing.  I have experimented with many such devices and have never found the need to turn off joystick support in any app to get something to work properly.

I might do some more investigation into this at some point.

Good for you.  But this is a new GroovyGameGear product announcement thread.   As a direct competitor, please have the decency not to  "muddy the waters"  by  attempting to create a fictional and undeserved aura of uncertainty around the product being announced.

Thank You,
RandyT

[RetroJames]

Randy,

The encoder is hot-swappable via the USB, but I am curious if it would be via the inputs.

[RandyT]

Randy,

The encoder is hot-swappable via the USB, but I am curious if it would be via the inputs.  Meaning if I have the iput poles wired to a rs232 connector or somthing similar and put the encoder in the cab, can I then wire up a cp with an rs232 connector and swap the panels that way?

          O
  ------|------
|     CP        |-------[male rs232][female rs232]--------{GP-WIZ}-----USB--------->PC
  -------------

Absolutely.  In essence, this arrangement does nothing more than extend the wires connected to the already open circuits. 

As long as the wires aren't longer than 10 or 12 ft,  it should work just fine.

RandyT

[RetroJames]

Sweet

[NoOne=NBA=]

Sweet

You're HAPPY about this?

Didn't you hear him when he just told you that you're going to have to SHORTEN your 15' deep CP?

Think of all the work that will cause you.
Not to mention the anxiety of trying to figure out where to put 26 sq. ft. worth of controls.

[DvMxDv]

After reading through all this, I have a question about this product:

If I use the GP-Wiz to control my 2 player panel with a street fighter setup plus the normal MAME buttons, will it cause my mouse-hacked trackball to behave strangely?

Thanks for the help!

Dave

[RandyT]

After reading through all this, I have a question about this product:

If I use the GP-Wiz to control my 2 player panel with a street fighter setup plus the normal MAME buttons, will it cause my mouse-hacked trackball to behave strangely?

I ran test after test for an hour last night and another half hour today.  Absolutely no problems.

If you aren't thrilled with the performance of this unit,  I'll accept the return and happily give you back the price of the product....But  somehow I don't think it will come to that 

RandyT

[JoyMonkey]

Think of all the work that will cause you.
Not to mention the anxiety of trying to figure out where to put 26 sq. ft. worth of controls.

Sounds like a franken-panel laden wet dream!

[Tiger-Heli]

Just wanted to make a quick post, to say that in MAME at least, if you are using J1B28, you can set up shift functions like UI Enalble = TAB or J1B28+J1B10, and get very similar results to the shift functionality of a KeyWiz or I-PAC.

[RandyT]

Ok, the USB cables are here and are now shipping with the GP-Wiz.


The store has been updated and a "MAX" version is also now available.

Pictures of that one will be up shortly.

Thanks for your patience,
RandyT

*edit*
Fixed link....

[Tiger-Heli]

Store link above isn't working.  Find the GP-Wiz's at this link.

The MAX has screw terminals for those that are wondering.

RandyT, thanks for making this option available.

[RandyT]

Store link above isn't working.  Find the GP-Wiz's at this link.

The MAX has screw terminals for those that are wondering.

Thanks for pointing out the link....fixed.

The MAX version also comes with a little standoff kit for mounting the board. 

RandyT