Contest - Monitor comparison!

[OSCAR]

I

[1UP]

Here's my guesses:

A-8  B-2  C-1  D-6  E-7  F-5  G-3  H-4

I will give my reasons below, but first, Oscar, if multiple correct answers are given, how do we know that someone didn't just look for the post that seemed to make the most sense (accompanied by the most logical explanations), and copied the matches?  Shouldn't it be determined by the earliest post with the most correct matches?  That way, the one who did the brainwork wouldn't get cheated by losing in the event of a drawing.

Anyway, it's free stuff, and I've already got both a model 1 and a Pro, so I'm not crying if I lose.  Just trying to keep it fun and fair for everyone!  

[OSCAR]

Excellent point.  I was stumbling over wether or not I should allow multiple "winners".  I agree with you, and since there is only a single response so far, I will modify the rules (because I can ) right now that the first "most-correct" response wins.  No drawings will be held.

[mtd]

Great idea Oscar.  I give up already .  However, I think the better contest here is judging which one has the best picture.

Also, since you have all of these available -- I think the community would benefit from a pic in Windows as well.  While I want the most authentic arcade look, I also need to be able to navigate through windows.  Your comparisons might allow me to find the "happy medium".

[OSCAR]

Great idea Oscar.  I give up already .  However, I think the better contest here is judging which one has the best picture.

Also, since you have all of these available -- I think the community would benefit from a pic in Windows as well.  While I want the most authentic arcade look, I also need to be able to navigate through windows.  Your comparisons might allow me to find the "happy medium".

Yes, that will be the natural follow-up to this contest.  I will also provide pictures in Windows where I can, but first I wanted to keep the comparison as even as possible by using all the monitors under a common environment.  I just didn't feel that it would be a "fair" comparison by showing an arcade monitor running under vanilla DOS, and then showing a digital monitor under Windows with lots of tweaks and filters added since I am trying to show just the differences in the monitors themselves.

[1UP]

So here's my case:  (CSI, watch out!   )

Although I don't have access to any of the monitors used (except the Viewsonic), I was able to make certain guesses based on quality and camera angles.  First off, I knew that the sharpest picture HAD to be off a PC monitor, and Viewsonics are no slouch, so F had to be 5.

Next, I knew that to take clear pictures, a tripod would probably have to be used.  And if you're going to take multiple pics of the same monitor, why move the tripod?  So I realized that 3 of the pics seemed to be taken from exactly the same angle.  And there were 2 other pics that seemed to match each other as well (even the moire pattern matched!)  In fact, these pics were so similar, if you overlayed them in photoshop, they matched to within 1/2 a pixel!  Also, I knew that a presentation monitor would probably have the next best picture (given a good connection.)  So I guessed that the NEC accounted for three of the matches (1, 6 and 7 going downward in quality by the type of connection) and the Toshiba TV for the other two (3 and 4.)

By process of elimination, I was down to just the two WG arcade monitors (which should be 2 and 8?)  Just a guess, but the 9100 being the more expensive of the two, I figured it would have the better picture, so it must be 2, while the 19 inch was 8.

Of course, I could be totally off (Oscar's a smart chap after all!   ) Some of the pics that matched in camera angle, varied widely in brightness, and I don't know if using a S-Video connection vs. a composite connection could really account for that.  But that's my guess, and I'm sticking to it!

[JMDickson]

A - 7
B - 6
C - 1
D - 3
E - 2
F - 5
G - 4
H - 8

[rampy]

*rampy goes to register www.ismymonitorhotornot.com*

 

just a thought.. should there be a rule against editing your post? or something... not sure if one could abuse the contest that way... but *Shrug* just a thought...

rampy

[OSCAR]

*rampy goes to register www.ismymonitorhotornot.com*

 

just a thought.. should there be a rule against editing your post? or something... not sure if one could abuse the contest that way... but *Shrug* just a thought...

rampy

I'm copy-n-pasting the guesses as soon as I see them into a text file, so I'll know if the answers have been changed afterwards.  But I guess I'm relying more on the honor system.

[SirPoonga]

Excellent point.  I was stumbling over wether or not I should allow multiple "winners".  I agree with you, and since there is only a single response so far, I will modify the rules (because I can ) right now that the first "most-correct" response wins.  No drawings will be held.

rules should be modified again.  What if someone who comes here every hour gets it correct right away.  No chance for those who come in every couple of day.

You should have a time period when you take votes.  The correct ones will be raffled then.

BTW, I hope I get the viewsonic right, I have th A70, the 17" version of the A90.

[OSCAR]

rules should be modified again.  What if someone who comes here every hour gets it correct right away.  No chance for those who come in every couple of day.

You should have a time period when you take votes.  The correct ones will be raffled then.

BTW, I hope I get the viewsonic right, I have th A70, the 17" version of the A90.

It is very difficult to come up with a set of rules that will fit every situation with a public contest like this.  I guess if someone who comes here every hour ends up with the correct answers, then they win because of their sincere dedication to the BYOAC forums.  

[SirPoonga]

BTW, wow, what a difference.  An A70 on an ATI 128 looks NOTHING like any of those.

[OSCAR]

BTW, wow, what a difference.  An A70 on an ATI 128 looks NOTHING like any of those.

A70 or A70F?  Big difference.

[SirPoonga]

rules should be modified again.  What if someone who comes here every hour gets it correct right away.  No chance for those who come in every couple of day.

You should have a time period when you take votes.  The correct ones will be raffled then.

BTW, I hope I get the viewsonic right, I have th A70, the 17" version of the A90.

It is very difficult to come up with a set of rules that will fit every situation with a public contest like this.  I guess if someone who comes here every hour ends up with the correct answers, then they win because of their sincere dedication to the BYOAC forums.  

What's wrong with my suggestion?  It's the most generic, it makes it fair to everyone.  There are dedicated BYOAC that only come in during the week (while at work).  The only the weekender will see this right now

[1UP]

It is very difficult to come up with a set of rules that will fit every situation with a public contest like this.  I guess if someone who comes here every hour ends up with the correct answers, then they win because of their sincere dedication to the BYOAC forums.  

Yeah, I think this rule, while not perfect, is the most fair, considering that everyone gets to peek at everyone else's answers.  If you wanted to do a raffle, I think a blind system would be more fair, like taking the answers by email.

Also, I think it might not be a bad idea to require that everyone leave their original post unedited (as that could be seen as making multiple guesses.)  If you want to comment, you can make a separate post as I did.  Maybe if you made a mistake in your guesses, you could be required to delete your original post and make another, so you go to the back of the line as a penalty (thus keeping anyone from stealing answers from someone later on, and changing their post to look like they got the right answers first.)

[SirPoonga]

Ok, here's my reply.

A-1
B-5
C-8
D-7
E-4
F-6
G-2
H-3

Explaination.  First, I have na A70, related to the A90.  So I took a pic of my monitor with spyhunter (oscar didn't hardware stretch!)  Note when you look close you "see" the pixels.  There is a pixel, a bit of black, a pixel, a bit of black.   So I looked for the one closest matched mine.  ALSO oscar only used that monitor once, along with each of the wells gardner monitors.  So I just needed to look for the ones that didn't have a pattern like any other shot.  that would be 1,5,and 6.  6 looks the closest to my viewsonic.  The XGA is going to have a fine resolution compared to the other wg.  Go it gets 6 and the other wg gets 1.  Now, he used the NEC 3 times, so 3 pics are going to have a simular pattern.  Looking carefully I see 4, 7, 8 have the same pattern.  They are at different brightnesses, which is interesting.  Any way,   s-video is going to be the higher quality of those, the other two are guesses.  That; leave the toshib and 2 and 3 (which have the same pattern AND look very simular to my toshiba tv).  Same thing, s-video is a better qualtiy so that is how I chose.

Now, I hope my eye for quality is correct.  It'd be funny if the answers were backwards.

[SirPoonga]

Admendment to mine.

Oscar, I can't wait until you post the answers.  I believe I have the monitors right but probably not the connections.

[AlanS17]

F-1
B-5
C-7
H-2
A-4
E-3
D-6
G-8

I'm no expert, but I've got my reasons.  

[SirPoonga]

Oscar, want a pic of spyhunter on a viewsonic A70 17" monitor using an ATI Rage 128 GL?  And a pic of a Toshiba 27" 27A40 TV running a NES hoooked up with the RF modulator and RCA cables running RC Pro AM?  hehe

If so pm me, I'll email the pics, at 2048x1536

BTW, my TV:)
http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/tv/archive/27A40.html

I could also take pics for you of mame on a 20" IBM P200 Trinitron monitor using a crappy computer with onboard video.  hehe, that't my cabinet's system.

[dhansen]

Do you hit pause when you take these pics?  Is there a way to stop mame from dimming the picture when pause is pushed?

Thanks!

Doug

[SirPoonga]

Great idea Oscar.  I give up already .  However, I think the better contest here is judging which one has the best picture.

Also, since you have all of these available -- I think the community would benefit from a pic in Windows as well.  While I want the most authentic arcade look, I also need to be able to navigate through windows.  Your comparisons might allow me to find the "happy medium".

mts, right.  I like pic #7 the best.  The bushes actually look like bushes.

[OSCAR]

Do you hit pause when you take these pics?

No.  MAME's dim-on-pause feature would have screwed up the pics.  That's the other beauty about using Spy Hunter for this:  When the game is started, the counter doesn't start until you hit a control.  This means unlimited time for taking a pic.

Is there a way to stop mame from dimming the picture when pause is pushed?

I imagine it would just require a source code edit.  But I'm not much help there.

[CustomArcade]

OK my HIGHLY SCIENTIFIC guess is:
1F
2H
3A
4B
5E
6C
7G
8D

[dones]

1 - B
2 - A
3 - C
4 - E
5 - F
6 - G
7 - H
8 - D

[Kitbasher]

Here are my guesses:
1 B
2 G
3 C
4 A
5 F
6 D
7 E
8 H
 

[rampy]

5 B
1 F
4 H
2 G
3 D
6 A
7 C
8 E


bah I suck... maybe my oddball choickes will pay off though.l.

rampy

[OSCAR]

bah I suck... maybe my oddball choickes will pay off though.l.

rampy

rampy, the king of SWAG??   Don't be discouraged.  This is not easy, and it's not over until it's over.

[madk]

1-H
2-B
3-D
4-A
5-G
6-F
7-E
8-C

Those are my uneducated assuptions.

[slug54]

A-8
B-4
C-1
D-6
E-7
F-5
G-3
H-2


The free Spinner will make up for the retina damage caused by staring at these pics for an hour.

                                 Slug54

[OSCAR]

1-H
2-B
3-D
4-A
5-G
6-F
7-E
8-C

Those are my uneducated assuptions.

Just so nobody complains about an edited post... I did notice madk's orginal post had a typo and listed both images 1 & 6 as "H", and didn't include an "F".  Your edit only changed image 6 to "F", and the rest were unchanged.  That certainly doesn't count as a DQ in my book.


slug54 - You are making me wonder if I should offer a "Best of Show" award for comedic effort...  

[SNAAAKE]

Well,
It ain't easy as I know nothin about filters or monitors but  guess is always cool .

5-a
1-b
4-c
2-d
3-e
7-f
6-g
8-h

[Dave_K.]

My guess:
1b
2a
3g
4h
5f
6c
7d
8e

[_Iz-]

1-B
2-C
3-D
4-E
5-F
6-A
7-H
8-G

Total Guesses...    

[Lazulitone]

Greets,

My guess seems to be pretty different compared to others.  I'm kind of a newbie though.  Had fun trying! Can't wait to see the actual results.

1. F
2. C
3. D
4. A
5. G
6. B
7. H
8. E

[toilet]

1. F
2. D
3. G
4. H
5. B
6. A
7. C
8. E

[u_rebelscum]

1. B
2. E
3. D
4. H
5. F
6. C
7. G
8. A

[AlanS17]

Looks like I had a couple of guesses in common with some other people. Maybe I'm not that retarded after all. Is this contest going to go until someone wins? Or will we have to wait til it's over before tallying is done?

[u_rebelscum]

My reasoning:
B, and F would have the sharpest, followed by C and possiblely A.
Like others said, C, D, & E should have close pattern, but C would be sharper and different refresh rate.
Again, G and H should be close.
S-video should be better then composite for same monitor + video card combo.  So G better than H but close pattern,
D better than E but close pattern, pattern also simular to C.

1, 5, & 6 are the sharpest images.
To me, 4 & 7 are very close in size and pattern, 7 much better than 4 (thus 4 composite).
To me, 3 & 6 are close if you acount for different refresh rate.  2 has nearly the same pattern, but a way different size.  I assumed oscar moved the camera for the NEC monitor.  2 has more bleed/blend than 3.  (thus 2 is composite and 6 is vga/BNC)
That leaves 5 and 1.  
5 is sharper than 1, and viewsonic has a good rep for sharp images.  
1 is sharp, but is softer than 5.  So 1 gets the XGA.

I'm probably wrong about the NEC monitor, thus messing up 3 other answers, but hey, might as well guess.

Good luck everyone!

[Brax]

A-2
B-5
C-6
D-3
E-4
F-1
G-7
H-8

I just made my best guesses. The sharpest resolutions I guessed were the monitors. Then I tried to guess the others by camera angles and apply the resolutions and quality I guessed that the devices would have. Not exactly rocket science. A throw of the dice more like it.  



And GAWWWWWD could I use a spinner! *crosses fingers*

[vishwats]

This is my answer
A-4
B-5
C-7
D-3
E-8
F-1
G-2
H-6

-Vishwa

[rosco]

My guess

A - 1
B - 7
C - 6
D - 8
E - 4
F - 5
G - 3
H - 2

[The Man]

 

B - 5
F - 1
A - 7
C - 2
D - 8
E - 3
G - 6
H - 4

Now I see why we have some many questions about it!

I do have one unrelated question for you though Oscar.  Do you make an Active High interface for the opti-pac?  All my Trackballs are Active High.

TM

[rgardjr]

A-4
B-6
C-1
D-7
E-8
F-5
G-2
H-3

[CthulhuLuke]

Here's just a guess
A - 6
B - 4
C - 5
D - 7
E - 2
F - 1
G - 8
H - 3

[Lilwolf]

hehe, I don't think it's worth the time... but I was considering making a table of the current answers... and basing my answer on the results...

but I guess I will go make some guesses.

Oscar... do you have an ATI video card?  I hear that they have vastly different output then most of the Geforce cards.  Also, what tvout chipset is on your card (phillips?  is it a ViVo?)

Great idea!

[SirPoonga]

hehe, I don't think it's worth the time... but I was considering making a table of the current answers... and basing my answer on the results...

Free stuff not worth time???  You haven;t gone to college, have you:)

BTW, you're the only FE Dev I can think of that hasn't been to fe.donkeyfly.com.

[OSCAR]

I do have one unrelated question for you though Oscar.  Do you make an Active High interface for the opti-pac?  All my Trackballs are Active High.
TM

Funny you should ask.  Take a look at the news I just posted at www.oscarcontrols.com.

Oscar... do you have an ATI video card?  I hear that they have vastly different output then most of the Geforce cards.  Also, what tvout chipset is on your card (phillips?  is it a ViVo?)

Hey Lilwolf!  Yes, I briefly mentioned in the original post that I tried both an ATI Radeon 7500 & my GeForce4 in DOS.  The difference in tv-out quality under DOS was indistinguishable, I could make either one look better than the other just by adjusting the camera position & settings.  However, the ATI did seem to give slightly better results under Windows.  Maybe the ATI drivers give the output quality a little boost??  I just picked up an ATI 8500 today, so I'm going to give that a try and see if that is any better.  From what I've heard about the 8500's so far, I wouldn't be surprised if it was.  BTW, my GeForce4 does have the ViVo chip.

[Sasquatch!]

A-8
B-2
C-5
D-6
E-7
F-1
G-3
H-4

After spending all that time and writing it down, I looked back to make sure I wasn't duplicating anyone, and sure enough, I had the exact same answers as 1UP.  Dammit.

So I switched C and F around.  If I'm right, in your face, 1UP!!

[Lilwolf]

Not what I ment... With so many answers, I was going to make a table and figure out what hadn't been answered.  It wasn't worth the time to look at the pictures....

but I did anyway..

Free stuff not worth time???  You haven;t gone to college, have you:)

BTW, you're the only FE Dev I can think of that hasn't been to fe.donkeyfly.com.

[Lilwolf]

I have 3 that could go either way...

but my 'official' answer

1. F
2. E
3. H
4. C
5. B
6. A
7. G
8. D

but my worksheet when like this

1. B or F
2. E or H
3. E or H
4. C
5. B or F
6. A
7. D or G
8. D or G

but I don't think that answer counts

[OSCAR]

Not what I ment... With so many answers, I was going to make a table and figure out what hadn't been answered.  It wasn't worth the time to look at the pictures....

but I did anyway..

Well, I'm glad you didn't take the fun out of it.  The point is you're supposed to look at the pics.  

The most interesting statistic at the end will be how many people match up the real arcade monitor, seeing as that is the look a lot of people are trying to recreate with their MAME cabs.  Yes, arcade monitors aren't for everyone because so many BYOAC'ers also run PS/2, DC, etc..., but actually seeing how the alternatives compare against them is well worth the test, IMO.

[rampy]

I'm surprised Howard hasn't weighed in yet... he's pretty good at picking out visual details, and is such an avid fan of the authenticity of arcade monitors...  there's the potential for some irony there.

*shrug*

rampy

[Rocky]

A - 8
B - 4
C - 1
D - 3
E - 6
F - 5
G - 7
H - 2

I'm just guessing here  


Rocky

[Dave_K.]

So I guess nobody has guessed the correct sequence yet??  Or is this just for statistical purposes?  Oscar, do we have a winner?

[SNAAAKE]

or atleast who got the most answers correct?

[RandyT]

Using my (incredibly mediocre) powers of observation, my guess is as follows;

A-7
B-1
C-6
D-3
E-2
F-5
G-8
H-4


RandyT

[OSCAR]

I can't answer those questions just yet.  If I said that nobody has guessed the correct combination, then it could possibly improve the chances of someone guessing later who wouldn't have posted their guesses, thinking that a winner has probably already been selected.  And if I said that the correct combination has been guessed, then nobody else would bother trying.

The correct combination and the winner will be posted shortly after 7:00PM EST on Sunday, 10/27/02.

[rampy]

bah... it's gonna take forever for the weekend to get here now =P i'll never make it.

tic-tock-tic-tock

Besides the chance at a prize, I'm chomping at the bit to see the answers... (ok not totally chomping... but i am curious)

rampy

[Superdude]

My stupid answers:
A-1
B-5
C-7
D-8
E-4
F-6
G-2
H-3

[Frostillicus]

My guesses:

A   -  3
B   -  5
C   -   8
D   -  7
E   -   2
F   -   1
G   -   4
H   -   6

I would just like to state for the record that after reading some of these posts and actually participating in this contest I know now why my friends view me and this hobby as more than a little weird: "Yeah dude, there's a SPINNER up for grabs! What's a spinner, you ask? umm....It's a knob - you can control a game...it's like a mouse.  No. Just one axis.  Look, did you ever have an etch-a-sketch? no?  never? well then nevermind. To win  All i have to do is match up 8 screens with the correct monitor and...-Game screens.  yes, arcade game screens.  Spy Hunter.  Listen the point is... well I don't know what the point is but I submitted my best guesses.   Forget it, I'll talk to you later."
Based on a real phone call.  Thanks Oscarcontrols, for such a cool contest  

[SirPoonga]

Sunday and the final answers are almost here....

[OSCAR]

The contest has ended.  I will tabulate all your answers and post the winner along with the correct answers in about 10 minutes.

[SNAAAKE]

sure man...I know I won

[OSCAR]

The winner is RandyT with a perfect score!!!

1  - B  W-G 9100
2  - E  NEC through composite
3  - D  NEC through s-video
4  - H  Toshiba through composite
5  - F  Viewsonic A90F
6  - C  NEC through RGBS
7  - A  W-G 7901
8  - G  Toshiba through s-video


A few stats...

Correct pair matched most frequently:  5-F  (12 matches)
No surprise there, I guess.  Pretty much everyone has played MAME on a PC monitor.

Correct pair matched least frequently:  A-7  (3 matches)
This did surprise me a bit, I must say.  I would have bet a lot of people would have matched that one first because of the soft, fuzzy, and familiar look to it.

This was not an easy contest, and I'll admit it myself!  Now which monitor is the best solution for a MAME cab?  You be the judge.  

Any comments/questions/complaints/etc... please feel free.  


RandyT - I will PM you to coordinate your prize.  Congrats!

[SNAAAKE]

DOH!

Didn't win...

Oscar,
Who did the worse here?(please not me ).

[Brax]

Well darn.... the only way i was going to get a spinner was to win one. (((

fun contest.

[Sasquatch!]

This contest was a GREAT idea, just to make all of us take a second look at potential monitor choices.  Everybody won as far as I'm concerned.  Thanks, OSCAR.

[SirPoonga]

now I have an actual screnshot I can work with for advance mame.

[Lilwolf]

GREAT IDEA OSCAR!  

fun, I just checked my answers.  The main opps was I expected that the nec presentation monitor would have looked better with svid.  It probably has a svid -> composite circuit added later so they could add the 'feature' but didn't design around it.

Of course, the the best is the arcade monitor.  Then the next I would guess is tosh with tv-out svid myself.    I never realized that it was so close.

I would have loved to see a few more entries (still would for comparisons).

1) The real arcade.  If you know where one is around, I would love to see how close we can get an arcade machine.

2) Scan converters.  There are a few cheap ones out there that some say stink, and others say are great (tview gold I think).    

maybe if you mention how you took the pictures as close as possible, people with those and different solutions could take some of their own pictures and make a library out of it.

btw, CONGRATES RandyT!!!

[OSCAR]

You

[RandyT]

Thanks!

I'd like to thank the academy and all the little people.....er, wait, that's me  

Just wanted to let you folks know that I didn't look at any of the other submissions before coming up with my answers.  Those of you that have been here a while might recall the heated monitor related discussions a year or so ago between Howard and myself.  So some of you probably know that I've researched this stuff to a good extent in the past.

I've been playing with this stuff since I built my Amiga into a Defender cabinet and hooked it up to the RGB arcade monitor that was inside.  Even though I have never seen any of the monitors in the test, I had a pretty good idea what to expect from looking at and evaluating just about every tube I have come across for possible inclusion in a cabinet

Anyway, a big thanks to Oscar for a fun contest, and if anyone is interested as to how I came upon my decisions, let me know and I'll write it up.

RandyT

[1UP]

You

[OSCAR]

I knew it, you tricky bastich!!    What I want to know is, how did so many pics of DIFFERENT monitors end up being at exactly the same angle?

I'm just good, I guess.  

Seriously though, I did take quite a bit of time setting them up to try to make sure the pictures were taken from the same perspective, except for the ones that I intentionally made slightly different.  I took TONS of pictures.  I'm probably being conservative, but I bet I ditched about 150 pics before I ended up with the 8 that I was happy with.  My intent was to keep the car the same size in each of the pics, and that wasn't too easy either when changing between a 27" TV and an 18" monitor.  My camera has a true optical zoom lens, not digital, so it doesn't distort pixels, so that definitely helped.  I didn't rely on the zoom for proper size, just very fine adjustments to tweak it in.  I didn't resize or crop any pics to avoid software interpolation of the actual picture, either.

[1UP]

I see you updated the site with the pics and their hardware setup.  Now I can make a more educated decision on what monitor to use.  Thanks for doing the hard part for me!  

[u_rebelscum]

Great contest Oscar.  I got a lot closer than I thought I would, and now looking at the pictures again (20-20 hindsight), the mistakes I made are pretty obvious.    

Congrats RandyT!

Again, thanks for going through all the work for us.  It will help us looking for monitors way more than most other reviews; "a picture is worth a thousand words." (and you took a lot of pictures)