Shift button. On with a key.

[Bones]

I have been thinking and reading about the associated problems of the shift button being accessible on the control panel. Even hiding this button only seems like a temp solution until somebody finds it, or you have to fix your cab for some reason in front of others.

My thoughts are to have a dedicated shift button on the CP, but then wired through a second key operated switch that can only complete the circuit when the key is in and turned on.

During parties or when shifted buttons need to be disabled you just take out the key and the button on the CP doesn

[Bones]

Something like these.

[quarterback]

There was a thread a while back about barrel lock start/power switche that you might find interesting.

I can't remember how the thread started, but I think there was some auction on ebay and it went from there.  If you find the thread, I think there are some links to inexpensive sites to buy them.   The goal was different but the concept is the same.  Use a keyed lock to enable/disable something on the cab

[Bones]

Cool, thanks-will do some more searching.

[Bones]

Outstanding!

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,28097.0.html

I would have never looked in Buy/Sell/Trade.

Thanks for your help,
BB

[NoOne=NBA=]

The actual shift button you are planning to use is redundant.
If the keyswitch is ON, everything is shifted.
If the keyswitch is OFF, everything is UNshifted.

[Bones]

No it's not. If key is and turned, AND you press a dedicated shift button then shift functions work. If the key is not turned then shift button will sit in idle mode regardless if it's pressed which is ideal for parties.

But I understand what you are saying. To leave the key on and have admin buttons you would need a considerable out of spare inputs to not interfere with game play. Otherwise you have to turn the key each time you want admin without affecting the controls.

Then yes, this achieves nothing.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I think you may have missed part of what I was getting at.

The shift function on the encoder WILL affect gameplay, regardless of how it is activated.
It doesn't matter if it gets activated by the keyswitch, the button, or two wires hangin out that you twist together when you want admin.

You can actually bypass the effects of this to some extent, if you map all of player two's shifted inputs to be the same as the unshifted ones.
This will let you put the admin functions on player one's controls, and perform admin stuff without the other player interfering with it.

That would make the keyswitch work perfectly.
Turn it on, do your admin stuff, turn it off.

[crashwg]

I may be wrong but it seems as though you are not understanding what BrokenBones is trying to do.  The key will be wired in series with the admin button as to prevent the admin button from doing anything when the key is not turned and therefore not creating a complete loop.

[IMMark]

I may be wrong but it seems as though you are not understanding what BrokenBones is trying to do. The key will be wired in series with the admin button as to prevent the admin button from doing anything when the key is not turned and therefore not creating a complete loop.

I agree, at least I think this is what BrokenBones is saying,
But I guess I wonder why go that route, isn't the key switch in affect the same as a button switch, so why have the key activate the button, just use it ...on when you need to do admin, off when you are done???   Maybe I am missing something?

[quarterback]

The actual shift button you are planning to use is redundant.
If the keyswitch is ON, everything is shifted.
If the keyswitch is OFF, everything is UNshifted.

I can only assume that BrokenBones1 is going to hook it up like this:
This green line irepresents the shift button.  It's normally open, but when pressed, makes a connection

___/   ______

____________     


By adding the keyed-lock-switch (in red), what you get is something like this:

___/   ______________/     _______

_____________________________

The first _/ _ is the shift button and the second  _/ _ is the keyed-lock-switch.  If the keyed-lock-switch has not been turned "on", then pressing the button will do nothing.  On the other hand, if the keyed-lock-switch IS turned on, then pressing the button WILL do something, but just having the keyed-lock-switch turned on doesn't inherently complete the circuit

So, when the key is in the lock and turned, you get this:

___/   _______________________

_____________________________

And when the key is in the lock and turned AND the shift button is pressed, you get this and your circuit is complete:

____________________________

_____________________________

[IMMark]

The actual shift button you are planning to use is redundant.
If the keyswitch is ON, everything is shifted.
If the keyswitch is OFF, everything is UNshifted.

I can only assume that BrokenBones1 is going to hook it up like this:
This green line irepresents the shift button. It's normally open, but when pressed, makes a connection

___/ ______

____________


By adding the keyed-lock-switch (in red), what you get is something like this:

___/ ______________/ _______

_____________________________

The first _/ _ is the shift button and the second _/ _ is the keyed-lock-switch. If the keyed-lock-switch has not been turned "on", then pressing the button will do nothing. On the other hand, if the keyed-lock-switch IS turned on, then pressing the button WILL do something, but just having the keyed-lock-switch turned on doesn't inherently complete the circuit

So, when the key is in the lock and turned, you get this:

___/ _______________________

_____________________________

And when the key is in the lock and turned AND the shift button is pressed, you get this and your circuit is complete:

____________________________

_____________________________

Yes, I think that is exactly what he is proposing... I just don't get why.  If his goal is to have an admin button (switch, key, whatever), but doesn't want it available to just anyone, then just using a key switch would accomplish this...why the extra button?  When he wants admin, put in key and turn.
 

[quarterback]

Yes, I think that is exactly what he is proposing... I just don't get why.

[IMMark]

Yea, I not putting words in his mouth either.
...really wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy about it working my way.  I guess I really in visioned a spring loaded key switch, it returns to the NO position on its own.  But you may be right, maybe he doesn't want a key on the CP.  And right too that it would not be always available.  I'm on the same page now...and over all I like the idea of being able to lock out people of admin functions.

[thrash242]

I'm going to have shift keys discreetly mounted on the sides of the panel(but not really hidden), but there's nothing I've assigned as a shift function that is dangerous for non-me people to use.  All the shift buttons access in MAME is coin up and exit game.  All other admin functions willbe inside the cabinet, accessible through the coin door.  Maybe even a wired remote box.  I find myself very rarely using any admin functions once things are set up.

But then, I have no non-arcade-original buttons on mine, so I have to have a shift key to be able to exit games and to insert coins until I get my coin door.

I guess having a key enable the shift button would work fine if that's what you want to do.  I'd just go about it in a different way.

[crashwg]

To answer you question of do I think it's worth it...  Heck yea, why the fark not?  I may just steal that idea and run with it a little bit.

The way I have my CP set up is I'm going to have a pause button on it (I know, I know, not exactly authentic but I didn't have a phone to answer or a baby to take care of in the arcade either...) I plan on having the pause button be the shift button but now you've got me thinking.  Maybe I'll but in a key lock which in the off position would have the input send only the P key but if the key is in the on position it would be P when released and shift if used in combination with another button.  It would be easy enough to do, just set up two inputs on the I-Pac to be P but have only one be set up as the shift key then have the key connect either one of the inputs to the button depending on which way the key was turned!

Did ya follow all that? 

[edit]
Oh yea, forgot to mention that the lock would be best if it were posible to remove the key in both positions...
[/edit]

[Bones]

The actual shift button you are planning to use is redundant.
If the keyswitch is ON, everything is shifted.
If the keyswitch is OFF, everything is UNshifted.

I can only assume that BrokenBones1 is going to hook it up like this:
This green line irepresents the shift button.

[danny_galaga]

regardless of wiring/logic probs, if you have a coin door you can fit a microswitch to the door lock. that way nothing looks out of place. myself im going to just use the reject button. no one touches it. the default as player 1 button on the ipac i thought would have been sufficient but occasionally someones knee presses it causing all sorts of havoc 

[Bones]

regardless of wiring/logic probs, if you have a coin door you can fit a microswitch to the door lock. that way nothing looks out of place.

That is a great idea! I had all but decided to put the key switch somewhere discreet but this now gives me something else to think about.

I have all but decided that the key system will suit me well and hopefully prevent some of the problems read here http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,29252.0.html

[NoOne=NBA=]

That is a great idea! I had all but decided to put the key switch somewhere discreet

That's the part that doesn't make sense.
If you're going to pay EXTRA money for a keyswitch button, why would you HIDE it?

If you're going to HIDE it, why not just use a simple, and CHEAPER, on/off switch inside the coin door?

If the keyswitch is going to be VISIBLE, why not just use IT as the shift button?

When the key isn't IN, the switch doesn't work, and you can't access the shifted functions.
When the key is IN, but NOT on, you have normal functions.
When the key is IN, AND the key is ON, you have shifted functions.

This does EXACTLY what you wanted the system to do, but eliminates the REDUNDANT button on the CP.
If you put the keyswitch somewhere accessible, but hidden (bottom of the CP overhang, for example), YOU can do all the admin you want, but nobody ELSE will even know it's there when the key is removed.
If returning to off (like the shift button you are planning to use) is an issue, use a MOMENTARY keyswitch.

The ROOT problem here isn't really the accessibility of the shift button anyway.
The ROOT problem is that the built-in code on the I-pac uses P-1 START as the shift key, and nobody thinks to change that.
That creates a condition where player 1 HAS to hit the shift button to continue a game, and can't do so without activating ALL the shifted functions.

I got around that by using my PAUSE key as shift.
If you hit the button, and HOLD it, you get shifted functions.
If you hit the button, and RELEASE it, the game pauses.

I've had kids from 3-15 play my cabinet for years now--without EVER locking it up.

[Bones]

That is a great idea! I had all but decided to put the key switch somewhere discreet

That's the part that doesn't make sense.
If you're going to pay EXTRA money for a keyswitch button, why would you HIDE it?

For aesthetic reasons, it would look obnoxious on the CP (in my opinion).

If you're going to HIDE it, why not just use a simple, and CHEAPER, on/off switch inside the coin door?

I could do that as well, hence me replying to DG with:

That is a great idea! I had all but decided to put the key switch somewhere discreet

Although...... The small extra cost doesn't bother me, I am not building my cab on a tight budget. Some of the joystick balls will be gold plated in 19 carrot gold. Seriously, cost is not an issue with anything to do with my cab.

If the keyswitch is going to be VISIBLE, why not just use IT as the shift button?

It won't be visible. That's not the plan.

When the key isn't IN, the switch doesn't work, and you can't access the shifted functions.
When the key is IN, but NOT on, you have normal functions.
When the key is IN, AND the key is ON, you have shifted functions.

Yes, this is correct.

The ROOT problem here isn't really the accessibility of the shift button anyway.
The ROOT problem is that the built-in code on the I-pac uses P-1 START as the shift key, and nobody thinks to change that.
That creates a condition where player 1 HAS to hit the shift button to continue a game, and can't do so without activating ALL the shifted functions.

I got around that by using my PAUSE key as shift.
If you hit the button, and HOLD it, you get shifted functions.
If you hit the button, and RELEASE it, the game pauses.

I've had kids from 3-15 play my cabinet for years now--without EVER locking it up.

Cool, glad you have no problems! (Although it does surprise me that nobody has accidentally tripped a shifted admin button while pressing pause......)


However, if your setup allows shifted keys to be accessed via the CP-then this does not suit my requirements. My goal here is to find a way to quickly, reliably and undeniably prevent a shift key from being accessed.

As also stated earlier, hiding the shift key solves all problems-until it's discovered. Again, this is only my opinion.

Thanks for your input.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I wasn't saying that YOU don't need a shift button lockout.
I was saying that everybody ELSE needs to reprogram their shift buttons.

You need to understand that information given out in any thread you put up here is not directed SOLELY at you, but at the entire userbase here.
There are probably ALOT of people reading this thread that DON'T need a lockout, but DO need to reprogram their shift button.

With the I-pac programmed right, it's almost impossible to hit an admin function by accident.
The key is to not HAVE any admin functions mapped to the player inputs.
This doesn't prevent INTENTIONAL access to admin, but will prevent the ACCIDENTAL problems that were in that thread.

[Bones]

Thanks again.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Have you considered wiring it so that the disconnect is inside the coin door, AND the reject button is the shift button?
That would eliminate the shift button from the CP entirely, rather than giving you a dead button during parties that people will keep asking "Hey, what's this button do?".

[Bones]

Have you considered wiring it so that the disconnect is inside the coin door, AND the reject button is the shift button?

Yeah I can see that working well but I picked up some backlit coin face plates that I intend on using. They are without mechanism and I was going to bolt them onto the cab for appearance only. There won't be any switching going on around that area with my current plan.

But nothing is in concrete yet and I still have lots of options at this stage so not dimissing anything just yet.

[Grasshopper]

The lock switch is a good idea but I don't think you need a dedicated shift button as well.

Also the shift key facility is already built into MAME.

What I would do is simply connect one of the inputs to the lock switch and assign it to an unused keycode. For example let's say that turning the key is the equivalent of pressing 'J' on the keyboard.

Now you could say that pressing both start buttons simultaneously when the lock is on exits the current game. So you would edit default.ini to tell MAME that pressing '1' and '2' and 'J' simultaneously is the equivalent of pressing escape.

Now if the lock is not activated pressing the two start buttons on their own will not exit the game.

You could also have three simultaneous key presses (obviously including 'J') assigned for other admin functions like tab, pause etc.

[LordDamo]

What I reckon this project needs is a three position lock and a button wired in series, that can toggle between three different settings:

1. Off
2.  On (When button depressed, turns comouter on)
3. Shift (when button pushed, activates shift function of encoder)

Something like this : http://www.jintay.com.tw/s202z.htm (Down the bottom of page, the S202ZC).

Does anyone think this would work?

[Bones]

Ohhh yeah!

That's pretty sexy... 

Thanks!

[Kremmit]

Or, for cheap ---daisies---, (read: not you, Mr. Gold Plated Joystick  ) old PC cases often have simple keylock switches on them.  Of course, you've gotta find a key that will turn them if the original's not hanging out of the lock when you find the case, but my experience is that a lot of them could be turned with anything that would fit in the slot.

[brandon]

why not use a spring loaded safety interlock switch like the kind that are usually on the coin doors already?

[Trimoor]

I already have one of those.  His name is Pete.  He lives inside my monitor and draws the video on the glass with a crayon.