Which controls on which CP? - Multiple CP's.

[Silver]

I'm planning a multi-control panel cab. I'm trying to design what controls to put on which cp to maximise amount of games to play but minimise costs and hassle (ie I don't really want to buy lots of 1 control type just to have it repeated on different cp's....but we shall see!)

I realised there may be some games that need a certain combo of controls - eg a trackball and a joystick? - and I want to be prepared.

I was thinking:

CP A)

2x 8-ways, 6 buttons each.  1x 4-way. (possibly 4x 8-ways for SmashTv, depends on space)

CP B)

Dual trackballs and dual spinners. (how many buttons needed here?)

CP C)

Driving panel. (360wheel)


Some comments I've had include:

1) not having the spinners available with the wheel means that they can't be used for players 2 and 3 in driving games.

2) Having a trackball and/or spinner on the CP with joysticks would reduce the amount of panel swapping... But I think dual trackballs would need WAY too much space (These are 3" Happs).

3) Some games need a spinner and joystick (tron) - are there many?

Also I was wondering about an analogue joystick. Any suggestions for which panel?

Any feedback/thoughts appreciated.

[Hoagie_one]

I've planned on doing the same thing, but i have a fairly small CP space.

CP1) Street fighter 6 button with start buttons (t-stick plus's for 4 way)

CP2) dual stick 2 player for smash tv style games.

CP3) top fire (or trigger stick), trackball, spinner, a few buttons for tron and all 1 player trackball\spinner games

CP4) 270 degree wheel, stick shift (and maybe also a 360 wheel)

[Percipio]

Have you checked out Doc's Modular Mame?  http://www.beersmith.com/mame/index.htm

I'm modelling my modular concept after his.

[NoOne=NBA=]

A modular system solves ALL of the problems presented here.

It cuts down the amount of CP space needed.
It limits the amount of controls that need to be bought.
It allows game-by-game configuration of the controls used.
It also allows YOU to pick which controls YOU think should be used on a game, not just the ones that are available on the current panel.
(A good example of this would be Moon Patrol, which I still think should have used two buttons for Fast/Slow, rather than the Joust/Defender stick that it DID use in the arcade).
It requires less storage space for the same number of controls.
It allows for "future" additions to be used with existing controls.
And, given enough modules, allows you to play EVERY game.

Modular is truly a "no compromise" solution to this.
The ONLY downside I have found to a modular system is that it does require you to change modules to swap from Game A, to Game B, if the controls are not the same.
That is a very small price to pay for complete control over everything, in my book.

Having done swappable CP's for awhile, I wouldn't switch BACK to them for ANYTHING.

[Silver]

Thanks for all the good feedback.

I had forgotton about top-fire joysticks  . I've already hacked 2 jsticks to be rotary on CP A though. Although I could re-do it with t-sticks....

I've seen Docs modular mame (I've been researching this a LONG time!) and it nearly single-handedly converted me to modular. Unfortunately, I think that

it does require you to change modules to swap from Game A, to Game B

is a big issue for me, and I'm aiming for 2/3 panels I can swap quite easily to cover most bases.

[tetsujin]

Personally I wouldn't bother with spinners for driving games.  Get multiple steering wheels or don't. 

The modular solution is very interesting.  A bit fiddly for my taste but otherwise there's not a lot of compromise.  If you want a particular layout for a particular game, the bottom line is you can do it with modular.  It's great how Doc's panels still fit within the compact, closed design, too...

Personally, though, my philosophy is to not try to support everything in one cabinet.  The different controls are just too diverse.  Every time I try to plan out two or three control panels that won't bust the budget but that will play a good selection of games there's one more on the horizon that I find myself wanting to support.  Like my six-button fighter layout expanded to eight because I wanted Neo-Geo to have its row of four and I didn't want the two rows mismatched.    Smash TV is tempting as well (I may support that on my four-player panel), as are two-player Marble Madness and dual-spinner games - but I have to draw the line somewhere.  If you go with swappable panels there's always going to be something you can almost support.

Personally, I'm going to stick to swappable panels for now.  I like that each swappable control panel will be "whole" and seamless, and they're going to have panel art and plexi, and a few other special features...  modularity makes that harder.  I think the modular panels will look better.  And I prefer to treat control panel changes as strictly a "special occasion" thing - not something I'll be doing all the time.

If you want more flexibility than that, I think modularity could be a great way to go.  Otherwise you're still in the same boat as me: constantly trying to draw the line between supported and unsupported games. 

Of course, you could always combine the two approaches, too: have one of your swappable control panels be modular, or have a modular panel with some full-panel modules.    Whichever way you go you can potentially get all the advantages of the other.

[Silver]

Of course, you could always combine the two approaches, too: have one of your swappable control panels be modular, or have a modular panel with some full-panel modules.    Whichever way you go you can potentially get all the advantages of the other.

That is a *really* nice idea. Advantages of both worlds.... Howver, I think I'm with you on the "special occaision only" for CP changes. My original plan was just to have 1 main CP, and then a driving one.... But then I saw how crowded a CP gets with 4 joystick, a trackball etc..etc...
Good points though.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I think that

it does require you to change modules to swap from Game A, to Game B

is a big issue for me, and I'm aiming for 2/3 panels I can swap quite easily to cover most bases.

I think you are reading too much into my statement there.

You don't have to swap controls any MORE with a modular system than a swappable system.
The modular system just lets you swap LESS of the control panel--if you want to.
A Stick/7-button/Stick/7-button module set will cover EXACTLY as many games as a swappable panel of the same configuration.

What the modular system lets you do is swap out those two button panels for sticks for SmashTV.
A swappable system would require you to swap out the entire panel, but would also require you to buy SIX sticks, instead of FOUR.

THAT's what sold me on modular.

[Doc-]

I have to agree with NoONE=NBA=:

If you design your modular system correctly, you only rarely have to change panels and usually only one or two panels at a time.  Further, using the CAT5 modular plugs/USB system along with a "tools free" modular setup, changing panels often takes no more time than finding the game you want to play on the menu!

About 85% I run with dual joysticks, 7 buttons each and only swap the center panel to get a spinner, 4 way joystick or other special joystick (analog, topfire for tanks, etc..).  Worst case I might swap the two center panels for a trackball.  Perhaps 10% of the time I will install a larger panel such as a steering wheel/pedals.  Only very rarely do I need to reconfigure the whole panel - usually for two player specialty games such as a "dual tank" configuration, or maybe to play Tron.  Even in these cases, most can be done by swapping a handful of panels.

I think if you went to a 28" panel size, you could do even better since you could have the trackball in the center (or two 4" center panels) and swap most anything you need (steering wheel for example) into those two center slots.

The key is that having individual controls mounted on smaller panels provides great flexibility and results in less cost since you need not have more than one type of control per player.  Also, you can create layouts not possible with larger block modules.

Doc-

[NoOne=NBA=]

That leaves artwork as the only other sticking point.

My workaround for "consistent artwork", if I ever GET to it amongst all my other projects, is going to be something along the lines of the Nintendo vs. Artwork, where each bank of controls has it's own outline on the module.
That will let me swap them around freely, while maintaining a more finished look than the unpainted wood I currently have.

[telengard]

That leaves artwork as the only other sticking point.

My workaround for "consistent artwork", if I ever GET to it amongst all my other projects, is going to be something along the lines of the Nintendo vs. Artwork, where each bank of controls has it's own outline on the module.
That will let me swap them around freely, while maintaining a more finished look than the unpainted wood I currently have.

Yeah this is one of the downsides to a modular panel.  Someone sent me some very nice generic "interlocking" graphics that resemble Defender's CP which goes w/ my Defender motif. 

I first had a swappable panel and after a year or two decided to go modular.  It's the best decision I've made with my cab.  Being able to play any game with the original controls in their original positions (within reason) is awesome.  Swapping an entire panel was actually more of a pain in the you know what than the modules.  For one, the big panels are harder to store.

[Paul Olson]

Wow! Right after I hit Post on a new topic about modular panels, this thread showed right underneath it.  I didn't realize this many people had done modulars.  I have decided that modular is the best option for me, but am not set on a design yet.  Any help from those who have done would be great.

Thanks, Paul

[Silver]

Hmmm I see I may have to go back to the design board (again...).

Thanks for all the suggestions. I would have to ditch the artwork I've got, but thats ok. I may go for a hybrid where instead of having each control on a module, have a control and some buttons. I've tried a few things out and I'm reasonably happy not being able to rebuild exact button positions for games.

I like the point about whole panels being hard to store change - that would certainly be true (especially a driving panel - NOT light to lift....)

More Hmmmmm.