basic button numbering/encoder help

[IreM72]

Can someone explain what is meant by numbering and what exactly does

[LordDamo]

The numbering correspondes to the button number on the encoder, and helps illistrate button layout.

The 1 means player X button 1, ect.

For my layout, im using the standard streetfighter 2 layout, good for most games:

    456
 J  123       (J is the joystick)

For button 1, wire it to the player 1 button on the encoder. For 2, wire it to the player 1 button 2, ect.
Just look at the documentation that came with your Ipac (I use a keywiz, so I cant help you there). Or go to the Ultimarc site. im sure Andys got all the info on there.

Hope this helps you out.

[IreM72]

Thanks for reply,

It's helpful

[LordDamo]

456
123

 is for street fighter games <b>not</b>

123
456

its like this cause it was like this in the arcade, the top row for kick and the bottom row for punch. soft, medium and hard go from left to right. This is good for most games, as most have a max of 1, 2 or 3 buttoms for the game.

Its easer to put the most used buttoms on the bottom row so that your not having to reach over anything to pound fire in your fav shoot-em-up.

Hope this helps.

[crashwg]

The numbering is a MAME thing realy.  If you go into the config of MAME in the game Street Fighter the default setup is:
button 1 - Low Punch
button 2 - Med Punch
button 3 - High Punch
button 4 - Low Kick
button 5 - Med Kick
button 6 - High Kick

In the arcade the buttons were set up punches on bottom kicks on top going low to high - left to right

Therefore if you want your controls to be arcade acurate you will want to set up your controls:

456
123

Does that clear things up a bit?

[Tiger-Heli]

The numbering is a MAME thing realy.  If you go into the config of MAME in the game Street Fighter the default setup is:
button 1 - Low Punch
button 2 - Med Punch
button 3 - High Punch
button 4 - Low Kick
button 5 - Med Kick
button 6 - High Kick

In the arcade the buttons were set up punches on bottom kicks on top going low to high - left to right

Therefore if you want your controls to be arcade acurate you will want to set up your controls:

456
123

Does that clear things up a bit?

Erm - Crashwg, actually, you got it completely backwards and confused the issue:

Looking in the CP packs for SF, Punches are on top and Kicks are on the bottom (logical, actually, Upper body - Up, lower body - bottom).

Looking in Controls.ini,

[sf2]
gamename=Street Fighter II - The World Warrior
numPlayers=2
alternating=0
mirrored=1
tilt=0
cocktail=0
usesService=0
miscDetails=
P1NumButtons=6
P1Controls=8-way Joystick+joy8way
P1_BUTTON1=Light Punch
P1_BUTTON2=Middle Punch
P1_BUTTON3=Heavy Punch
P1_BUTTON4=Light Kick
P1_BUTTON5=Middle Kick
P1_BUTTON6=Heavy Kick
P1_JOYSTICK_UP=Jump
P1_JOYSTICK_DOWN=Crouch
P1_JOYSTICK_LEFT=Left
P1_JOYSTICK_RIGHT=Right

So MAME is properly set up for SF2 with

1 2 3
4 5 6

But this is awkward for say 1942, because you have to reach over the lower row of buttons.

[Tiger-Heli]

I seem to be in disagreement with the rest of the board, FWIW, but.

Can someone explain what is meant by numbering and what exactly does                             
                                      1 2 3      mean?     
                                      4 5 6   

Using a Capcom style layout (2 rows of three buttons), the top left button is set as button 1

What is the difference between the above layout and

                                       4 5 6
                                       1 2 3

Using a Capcom style layout (2 rows of three buttons), the bottom left button is set as button 1

Why are certain layouts better for certain games? eg, fighters and classics?

The
4 5 6
1 2 3
layout is better for classics b/c you don't have to reach over the lower row of butttons, the
1 2 3
4 5 6
is better for SF b/c that's the way the arcade was set-up.

In reality, depending on whether you play more fighters or classics, you will pick one layout and re-program MAME to match.

e.g. For 7 button layouts what is the difference between:

         4 5 6             and         4 5 6   
         1 2 3                           1 2 3
      7                                  6

First off, the thumb button is really only used for NeoGeo 4-button games, the layout on the left ensures no duplicate inputs, but uses two more inputs on your encoder.  The layout on the right frees up two more inputs for admin functions, but there is a possibility of accidentally throwing a punch if you hit the thumb button by mistake.

How does the numbering correspond to the inputs on an encoder?

In general, the numbering relates to MAME inputs, and not to an encoder.

For example,
1 2 3
4 5 6
means I want the top button to be "Button 1"

By default, MAME sets P1Button1 to "L Ctrl" and by default, the I-PAC sets 1SW1 to "L Ctrl" so you would normally (for the above layout) wire the top button to 1SW1 on the I-PAC.

Not to confuse you, but this isn't a requirement.  For example, I could go into MAME and set P1Button1 to "U", re-program the I-PAC so the Coin1 terminal sent "U", and wire the upper left button to Coin1 on the I-PAC and it would work fine, but why?

[Tiger-Heli]

What arcade's have Lord Damo and Crashwg been hanging out in.

Top row is punch, bottom row is kick:

[LordDamo]

It was an arcade that was setup on the side of a service station that was also a video hire store. I played masses of street fighter 2 after school over a two year period. The machine that I played on was set out as I described above.

No bull, straight up.

It didnt have an overlay as you've included above though. It had only two different coloured buttons, red for punch and blue for kick.

No bull, straight up.

Being that im in Australia, might have been setup different here, dunno.

Thanks for posting though Tiger, and the pic helped clear it up.

[Tiger-Heli]

It was an arcade that was setup on the side of a service station that was also a video hire store. I played masses of street fighter 2 after school over a two year period. The machine that I played on was set out as I described above.

No bull, straight up.

My guess would be that the machine was originally set up for the classics and then modified for SF.  Could also be that there were two configurations.

I also know that there was a lot of talk years ago on the www.mame.net forums about MAME having the SF controls backwards, which would support what you are saying, and I never understood before.

[crashwg]

In my defense I am not a Street Fighter fan and was merlely trying to reiterate what Lord Damo was saying in a way that was more congruent with where we actually get the button #s from. 

Arcade buttons aren't numbered, MAME numbers them.

[LordDamo]

Cool

I also know that there was a lot of talk years ago on the www.mame.net forums about MAME having the SF controls backwards, which would support what you are saying, and I never understood before.

Thats the thing about this place, you learn something new everyday. Its good to be aware of such differences

In my defense I am not a Street Fighter fan and was merlely trying to reiterate what Lord Damo was saying in a way that was more congruent with where we actually get the button #s from.

Arcade buttons aren't numbered, MAME numbers them.

Thats it, got it in one. Since getting into mame, I dont play too much street fighter that much any more. Im discovering so many new games that I never got the chance to play "back in the day".

 Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

 Hope you understand what the go is now Vanthaelen, we explaned it ok in our own special way

[u_rebelscum]

Arcade buttons aren't numbered, MAME numbers them.

Just to throw my wrench into the mix...

There many different levels of button "numbers"

• Game number {sometimes, but usually "throw" or "shoot", or "A" (neogeo)}
• Jamma number {if it's jamma, that is}
   or other hardware number {most had some type of hardware numbering}
• Mame number {usually follows JAMMA or other hardware numbering, if any, can vary off sometimes}
• Encoder number {usually matches mame "number", but not always, especially if either are remapped}
• Keyboard key {ie: what the keyboard encoders actually send to the computer}
• PC gamepad/joystick number
• Location of button on the arcade control panel

The thing is people think they're all the same thing.  They are not, especially since you can remap mame, and most encoders, to whatever you want. 

Examples:

Game "button 4" might not be wired to JAMMA "button 4" (err, AFAIK, no Game button 4 were wired to JAMMA button 4 even though JAMMA includes a button 4).

Mame's default has "pedal 1" and "button 1" mapped with the same keyboard input, so some drivers don't have a "button 1", but start with "button 2" as the game's first button just to avoid default conflicts (which can be removed by remapping instead).

Some sequels had the same button layout (coughdoubledragoncough) but had them wired differently to the JAMMA buttons (triangle 132 and 123 in one case coughdoubledragoncough IIRC).

One control panel might have it's "player 1 button 1" wired to the encoder's "P2B6", which is mapped to output "S" (which defaults as mame's "player 2 button 2"); However in this case "S" is mapped as mame's default "player 1 button 1", except for certain games where "S" is mapped to "player 1 button 2".


OTOH, usually it's okay to ignore all the steps in between and assume "button 1" is the CP's, mame's, encoder's, and game's "button 1".  But many, if not most, "buttoning" questions arise because of this assumption.  [shrug]

[IreM72]

Thanks for the responses guys, you've been very helpful,

this is a great forum, formidable and friendly