MAME Movie Maker released

[donnyj]

After making 50 or so movies, I have decided that manually is DEFINATELY not the way to go 

Even if you ignore the time and frustration of doing it manually, there is the much bigger concern that I have that running the same game from different versions is going to create a slightly different loop.  I believe the best way to go would be to improve the loop detection and possibly adding some kind of hinting system.

For example, rather than absolute frames, if a correct loop could be detected by changing the min and max settings, etc. then record those...

I am definatly looking forward to the .91 update 

Also, there HAS to be a way to create much smaller .AVI files without sacrificing quality???   Some codec that takes into account limited colors being used or something?  How much affect does using cartoon mode on XVid, etc. ?

[Silver]

After making 50 or so movies, I have decided that manually is DEFINATELY not the way to go 

Even if you ignore the time and frustration of doing it manually, there is the much bigger concern that I have that running the same game from different versions is going to create a slightly different loop.  I believe the best way to go would be to improve the loop detection and possibly adding some kind of hinting system.

For example, rather than absolute frames, if a correct loop could be detected by changing the min and max settings, etc. then record those...

Seems like to be the consensus - it also seems that the loop detection currently does rather well. We can build a database automatically from this, then as people work through them make changes manually. Once 1 person has done it, everyone can then do it first time....

Also, there HAS to be a way to create much smaller .AVI files without sacrificing quality???   Some codec that takes into account limited colors being used or something?  How much affect does using cartoon mode on XVid, etc. ?

Havn't thought about this for a while. Forgot about it once it was all up and working.... Because of the annoying way that virtualdub sends config data to the encoder, settings have to be hard coded (ie Buddabing can't just add an option to let you set any bitrate).

Currently Xvid is configured to do a "quality based" encode. That means that it alters the bitrate as required to keep to the quality at a certain level. This is the best way of encoding a bunch of very different videos - eg if we had a fixed bitrate it would probably be hopelessy over-the-top for something lo-res like missle command, but make really ugly videos for something complex and hi-res like coolboarders.

The current "quality level" is generous and it  makes (IMHO) high quality videos (You can play them back full-screen, and they look good).  Its possible to alter the setting, or perhaps add "options" like  low/medium/high quality but it would mean more work and some ugly copying/pasting for Buddabing. Not sure what he feels - if he agrees then I can try out a few settings and post him the changes.

However, if you wish as a workaround you can compress them however you want: set the movievideo option to 0 (no compression) and then you can use Virtualdub to recompress this using whatever video codec you like. Note the uncompressed videos will be *massive* until you compress them.

NB you could also try using the DivX (movievideo=1)  or cinepak (movievideo=2) options. I do not know what settings the divx is set to. I would suggest that the cinepak is of a much lower quality, and therefore maybe smaller.

Also - is it the overall size of so many videos that is too big, or are there particular files that are much bigger? Could you list them if so?

[donnyj]

overall the movies are too big, IMHO.

The way virual dub does the codec settings is a major limitation.

I am hoping to use the AVI's as an "animated gif with sound"....  Picture a mame FE that has tabs for titleshot, marquee..., attract avi....

The quality-based is the best way to go because of changing resolutions also...

Is the MP3 encoding quality-based as well?  Is there an easier way to add the new codec string to the source without manually breaking the lines and adding quotes?

[Silver]

I forgot to add that obviously you can just alter the source and include any settings you like - this may be your best solution. (Just make a 'job' with the settings you want in Vdub, and replace the equivalent lines in the Source where it builds the job file.)

If you after something really small like an animated gif this may be your best bet. You could add resize filters to chop the image size right down too.

MP3 - no this is just a constant bitrate. Can't remember what bitrate it is, but its not that high (and doesn't need to be). I don't believe you will gain much size improvement by changing the sound compression, its relatively irrelevant compared to the video.

To add a new codec I would choose one you don't want - eg divx - and just place your own vdb file settings over that so you can use your own.

I will look to see if there are other ways of configuring encoders (such as a config file).

[2600]

I guess I'm in the minority in thinking that Budda has already done a damn fine job.  I just hate to see his time wasted with more and more options, although it really is up to him. 

Even with this database setup with all the hints or exact frames people are still going to complain because they have to do a little work.  Those people are only going to be happy when we can provide a torrent with everything already done for them (Of course they will complain about size, but they are many programs that can recompress them better for us to maintain the Higher Quality for those that appreciate it).  So maybe after we get everything set up a bit more, we could provide a torrent, possibly a DAT.


Silver, SSF comment was targeted more generally for those that didn't know what SSF was and was wondering why there may be differences from the SSF.txt file I posted and what they see from the loop detection.

[Lilwolf]

Ok, I haven't been able to look after the start/end frame post... but it looks like some real great progress..

Question...

Will it ignore roms if you already have an attract movie for it?  So you can rerun an updated batch file that has additions... and only do the new ones?  (ie, make it just exit right away if one exists)?

Would it be worth distributing a single batch file with both autos and start / end  in file.  It seems like it would be pretty cool to have all the games that the auto works fine.  So in the end the start/end is only used for the problem cases.

I really wish I had some more time at home to play with this! 

Thanks for all the work!

[2600]

lilwolf,
Budda has updated the first post with instructions, in it he list's a sample batch.bat that checks for existing avi's and doesn't make an attract movie if it exists.

[Popcorrin]

I guess I'm in the minority in thinking that Budda has already done a damn fine job.

[Buddabing]

Ok, I haven't been able to look after the start/end frame post... but it looks like some real great progress..

Question...

Will it ignore roms if you already have an attract movie for it?

[Silver]

I guess I'm in the minority in thinking that Budda has already done a damn fine job.  I just hate to see his time wasted with more and more options, although it really is up to him.

Great point. I agree strongly.

Even with this database setup with all the hints or exact frames people are still going to complain because they have to do a little work.  Those people are only going to be happy when we can provide a torrent with everything already done for them (Of course they will complain about size, but they are many programs that can recompress them better for us to maintain the Higher Quality for those that appreciate it).  So maybe after we get everything set up a bit more, we could provide a torrent, possibly a DAT.

Agreed again. I'm realising that any stuff not to do with detecting loops and and such is pretty much bug-free, and is now down to personal preferences.

Silver, SSF comment was targeted more generally for those that didn't know what SSF was and was wondering why there may be differences from the SSF.txt file I posted and what they see from the loop detection.

Aha excellent....!

[Silver]

I am changing ListGen to read the "ssf" file (which needs to have the end frame on it) and generate a new makemovies.bat with the -moviestartframe and -movieendframe. The games with no entry in the ssf file will generate movies with normal loop detection.

Excellent work Buddabing - again...

I agree that the start and end frame should be used first for the problem movies.

I would prefer not adding a new video codec, since a highly compressed or reduced AVI can be produced by changing the -resolution parameter or by using external software. But I would not be totally opposed to it.

With a little extra work, people can make avi's of any type to suit there preference. So maybe best to not overdo it for now?

The only other option I would suggest is to import an external txt file for people to use their own settings. This may be more hassle than its worth as you still have to incorporate the work-around filters, but you could make a generic external settings file and remove all the movieaudio/movievideo options from your mame.

[Buddabing]

The only other option I would suggest is to import an external txt file for people to use their own settings. This may be more hassle than its worth as you still have to incorporate the work-around filters, but you could make a generic external settings file and remove all the movieaudio/movievideo options from your mame.

Good idea. -movievideo 4 can be "roll your own". Instead of preset or hard-coded SetCompression and SetCompData, it will read a file and copy the file contents into the .vdb file. That way, people can put in whatever codec they want. If they want to change something in the .vdb file other than the video compression, they can run a sed script on the vdb file before virtualdub is run.

[Buddabing]

Okay,

My latest version of ListGen is ready. Get it here.

This version implements preliminary support for Dragon King game lists. Use -frontend dk to create a game list. Final support will have to wait until the final version of DK is released.

Another new feature is support for a new way of generating MAME movies. If you have a comma-delimited file named "ssf.txt" in the same directory as ListGen, it will try to parse it into rom name, start frame, and end frame. Then it will pass the parameters into each call to batch.bat.

You'll need to modify your batch.bat to add -movieloops %3 -moviestartframe %4 -movieendframe %5 to your call to MAME in batch.bat. I updated the first page of this thread to reflect thus.

There are a few new filter fields. Most notably, you can do a select * from gamedata where movieloops='2'; which will generate a makemovies.bat to only create movies that have entries in the ssf.txt. See filter.sql for documentation.

I am now shifting my attention to porting "BuddaMAME" over to version 0.91 of MAME.

[Buddabing]

Hello,

I have made a small change. I've implemented -movievideo 4 as discussed above.

When -movievideo 4 is set, the program looks for a file named codec.dat in the current directory. It copies the contents of the file, verbatim, into the active .vdb file. All you need to have in the codec.dat is the Video.SetCompression and the Video.SetCompData lines that are to go into the .vdb file.

EDIT: The file needs to be named vcodec.dat.

It should be fairly easy for an experienced VirtualDub user to create a .jobs file and pull the relevant parts out to put into the codec.dat file.

Donny: if you can't get your animated-gif size movies to work, let me know. Also, I can make a custom -movieaudio similar to this custom -movievideo if need be.

Regards,
Buddabing

[donnyj]

Thank you for mode 4!!!!!

[Buddabing]

Thank you for mode 4!!!!!  I must have mis-represented myself (no surprise, I do it often).  I meant "like an animated .gif"  Is it possible to do an actual animated gif that big (long)?

I was trying to say that I want a screenshot-sized avi.  I have no desire to play them full-screen etc.

There has gotta be a better codec that takes into account the fact that there is a very limited color count compared to an actual movie.  I believe that AVI is the right container though!  I don't understand how many of the AVIs are bigger than the actual .PNG files???  Shouldn't it just be encoding the changes and a keyframe every so often?

I don't know. Silver may be able to answer that.

Keep up the great work!!!!   As for me, yes I would love the availability of external audio codec info...  No need for a 2 minute clip to contain 1/2 meg of audio when the audio is blank...  OGG Vorbis is nice but it doesn't work well in an AVI format...  Although external audio files would work nicely with FE's that play sound clips too.......   I digress....

Adding -movieaudio 2 should be trivial. I'll do that asap.

I'll probably regret asking, but what FE's work well with the AVIs?

Attract videos are currently supported by 3d Arcade, Mamewah, Dragon King, Kymaera and Ultrastyle. I'm writing my own front end (creatively titled QFront) which will also support the attract videos.

[Silver]

There has gotta be a better codec that takes into account the fact that there is a very limited color count compared to an actual movie.  I believe that AVI is the right container though!  I don't understand how many of the AVIs are bigger than the actual .PNG files???  Shouldn't it just be encoding the changes and a keyframe every so often?

Hi,

Well first thing to remember is that the png's themseleves are all individually compressed. And a lot of older games - with lots of 'black' on the sceen, happen to compress quite well as pngs.

The avis are encoded as a keyframe + changes (IPB frames) and to be honest are designed for more complex media ie films. You will find that some of the more complex hi-res games have larger pngs than avis. (And don't forget the audio too. In almost all cases pngs+wav is bigger than the avi).

Also, you could compress the avis a lot more and they will look fine. Which you can now do with option 4.....

[Silver]

@Buddabing

This may be irrelevant now you have already introduced an option to load the video/audio compression externally.... But just in case:

The newest version of Vdub (1.6.3 - not sure about 1.6.2) can pass some paramaters from the command line into the script. So for example, if you included the line:

VirtualDub.audio.SetSource(VirtualDub.params[0]);

in the script, you can pass the audio filename from the command line:

vdub /i "settings_with_audio.vcf" <audio.wav> /p <in> <out> /r /x

where <in> can be the first png in the sequence and <out> is the avi.

Obviously this does not solve the other issues that require script adjustment, so you are probably best off leaving it as you are now...

The author of Vdub, Avery Lee, kindly informed me of the above.

[Buddabing]

@Buddabing

This may be irrelevant now you have already introduced an option to load the video/audio compression externally.... But just in case:

The newest version of Vdub (1.6.3 - not sure about 1.6.2) can pass some paramaters from the command line into the script. So for example, if you included the line:

VirtualDub.audio.SetSource(VirtualDub.params[0]);

in the script, you can pass the audio filename from the command line:

vdub /i "settings_with_audio.vcf" <audio.wav> /p <in> <out> /r /x

where <in> can be the first png in the sequence and <out> is the avi.

Obviously this does not solve the other issues that require script adjustment, so you are probably best off leaving it as you are now...

The author of Vdub, Avery Lee, kindly informed me of the above.

Hi Silver,

Does he know about the crash when the sequence of uncompressed pngs is used? Was it fixed in 1.6.3?

Some users may want to use uncompressed pngs via -moviecompression 0 -movievideo 0 to generate the highest quality video possible, then compress it themselves later on. As of version 1.6.2, Vdub crashes when this is selected.

[donnyj]

Thank you Silver and Buddabing for explaining the technical sides to me!!!

[Silver]

Hi Silver,

Does he know about the crash when the sequence of uncompressed pngs is used? Was it fixed in 1.6.3?

Some users may want to use uncompressed pngs via -moviecompression 0 -movievideo 0 to generate the highest quality video possible, then compress it themselves later on. As of version 1.6.2, Vdub crashes when this is selected.

Hi,

1.6.3 still crashes with uncompressed pngs. I've emailed him explaining the error, as well as sending a compressed/uncompressed sample.

Interestingly uncompressing crashtests MNG's to uncompressed pngs (which is an option in advmng.exe advancetool) and using those png's does not cause Vdub to crash).

[Buddabing]

Okay, I have implemented the -movieaudio 2 change (custom) and uploaded a new binary.

To use -movieaudio 2, you need a file called acodec.dat. Put the SetConversion and SetCompression statements in there and have fun. I included the SetConversion because IIRC we were having a bit of trouble getting that to work so Silver hacked that parameter. This way he can experiment with changing the MP3 encoding.

I've also changed -movievideo 4 to use a file named vcodec.dat instead of just codec.dat.

After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, I've finally gotten the basic 0.91 MAME to compile. All I need to do is make sure all my changed code compiles.

Regards,
Buddabing

[Silver]

Incidentally, if anyone is wondering how to setup these dat files correctly, here's how:

Open Virtualdub manually, open any movie file or png/wav combo (doesn't matter what).

Then make sure you select "Full processing" mode for both audio and video in the menus, then select "Compression" for both. This will pop up a menu  where you can select which codec you want to use, and you will also be able to configure this codec in its own menus exactly how you want it.

Once ready, select "Save avi" from the File menu, and make sure you tick the box "Save this as a job to run later" (or similar). Instead of processing, Virtualdub will save a file called "Virtualdub.jobs" in its home folder. Open this with notepad or similar, and then copy out just the lines that Buddabing mentioned:

VirtualDub.video.SetCompression...
VirtualDub.video.SetCompData...

and paste these into a blank txt file and save it as "codec.dat" and place it in you BuddaMame directory. Exactly the same for the audio, except copy out the lines:

VirtualDub.audio.SetConversion...
VirtualDub.audio.SetCompression...

and save them in acodec.dat.


Hope that helps.

[donnyj]

How's the update to .91 going?  Anything I can do to help?

[Howard_Casto]

Just something I wanted to suggest....

I've noticed that even with compression the bitrate is suprisingly high.  You would be suprised how low you can knock down the bitrate and still have identical picture quality.  Even my near lossless captures I did for the old 3darcade videos had 1/3 the bitrate of the vids the mm makes with any of the compressors.  The reason I mention it is the bitrate acounts for a lot of the file size.  It may be possible to make these vids much smaller without any noticable difference. 

[donnyj]

Just something I wanted to suggest....

I've noticed that even with compression the bitrate is suprisingly high.

[Silver]

Just something I wanted to suggest....

I've noticed that even with compression the bitrate is suprisingly high.  You would be suprised how low you can knock down the bitrate and still have identical picture quality.  Even my near lossless captures I did for the old 3darcade videos had 1/3 the bitrate of the vids the mm makes with any of the compressors.  The reason I mention it is the bitrate acounts for a lot of the file size.  It may be possible to make these vids much smaller without any noticable difference. 

Its a good point. This is especially true of some of the older, simpler games in mame.... As mentioned, the default settings are generous... but now you can "mix your own" everyone should be happy

[Silver]

Any ideas on what quantifiers you used?

I've found that comparing quantizer numbers across different codecs doesn't always match up... but you never know.

The default in mm for Xvid is around 4 (ie high quality high bitrate) and you could make the Target Quantizer a lot higher and have good results, as Howard suggests....

[Silver]

Hi Silver,

Does he know about the crash when the sequence of uncompressed pngs is used? Was it fixed in 1.6.3?

Some users may want to use uncompressed pngs via -moviecompression 0 -movievideo 0 to generate the highest quality video possible, then compress it themselves later on. As of version 1.6.2, Vdub crashes when this is selected.

Avery Lee (author of Vdub) has confirmed that he is found and resolved the crash caused by uncompressed pngs, and the fix will be included in 1.6.4 - the next release...

[Buddabing]

Just something I wanted to suggest....

I've noticed that even with compression the bitrate is suprisingly high.  You would be suprised how low you can knock down the bitrate and still have identical picture quality.  Even my near lossless captures I did for the old 3darcade videos had 1/3 the bitrate of the vids the mm makes with any of the compressors.  The reason I mention it is the bitrate acounts for a lot of the file size.  It may be possible to make these vids much smaller without any noticable difference. 

If you guys want to play around with the settings for Xvid via -movievideo 4, and you think you get settings that would be useful as the default, I'll change the defaults. I just put the code in, Silver did the encoding part of this project.

It would be definitely worth decreasing the bitrate if the playback is better on lower-spec machines with no perceptible loss of image quality.

Look for "BuddaMAME" version 0.91 on Monday.

[Howard_Casto]

yeah... i think we just need to play around with it a bit more and see the results.

[papaschtroumpf]

Look for "BuddaMAME" version 0.91 on Monday.

Cool!

[rerstad]

I've been running the program, plugging along, cranking out the movies--they're a great addition to the FE. 

However, last night, I kept getting a Virtual Dub Crash Error--"An out-of-bounds memory access (access violation) ocurred in module 'Virtual Dub'".  It appears to have just happened with one rom. 

[Silver]

Hmm, there is a simliar error when using uncompressed pngs. Assuming its only 1 rom, its not your settings.... what rom causes it?

[rerstad]

I happened with two roms in the last day--"sprint8" and "subs"--neither is too important, but what I've liked is that the app just keeps plugging away without stopping.  These roms, unfortunately, have stopped it.  Once I exit VirtualDub all appears to run fine again.   These are the only two I've stumbled across (so far) going alphabetical through the roms, so hopefully it will be done in the next few days. . .

[donnyj]

Not sure why, but the new 91 (with u1 patch) and information (Thanks buddabing!!!!) is available here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,31699.0.html

[donnyj]

am I the only one compiling from source from buddabing?

I believe there is an error...


I get:

Compiling src/usrintrf.c...
src/usrintrf.c: In function `handle_user_interface':
src/usrintrf.c:4074: warning: implicit declaration of function `save_movie_snapshot'
make: *** [obj/mamep4/usrintrf.o] Error 1

and it aborts back to the prompt....


When I modify usrintrf.o to say:

#include "ui_text.h"
#include "state.h"
#include "common.h"   /* DonnyJ added this line */

#ifdef MESS
  #include "mess.h"

worked until linking, then caused A LOT of problems!!!  Didn't work =[

so I modified common.h (REALLY have no idea what I'm doing here!)

/* generic NVRAM handler */
extern size_t generic_nvram_size;
extern data8_t *generic_nvram;
extern data16_t *generic_nvram16;
extern data32_t *generic_nvram32;
extern void nvram_handler_generic_0fill(mame_file *file, int read_or_write);
extern void nvram_handler_generic_1fill(mame_file *file, int read_or_write);

/* DonnyJ */
extern int save_movie_snapshot(struct mame_bitmap *bitmap);

/* bitmap allocation */
struct mame_bitmap *bitmap_alloc(int width,int height);
struct mame_bitmap *bitmap_alloc_depth(int width,int height,int depth);
void bitmap_free(struct mame_bitmap *bitmap);

and it "APPEARS" to work....

what's the real solution?

The only change I made to the makefile, is commenting CPMAKER=1 line (never could get cpmaker to compile)

[Buddabing]

am I the only one compiling from source from buddabing?

I believe there is an error...


I get:

Compiling src/usrintrf.c...
src/usrintrf.c: In function `handle_user_interface':
src/usrintrf.c:4074: warning: implicit declaration of function `save_movie_snapshot'
make: *** [obj/mamep4/usrintrf.o] Error 1

and it aborts back to the prompt....


When I modify usrintrf.o to say:

#include "ui_text.h"
#include "state.h"
#include "common.h"

[papaschtroumpf]

am I the only one compiling from source from buddabing?

Nope!, I am too (Iike to enable the optimizations for my target CPU, plus it's interesting to look at Budda's code)). I was missingas few pieces that I just got in the other thread, so I should be building this latest version later today.

[Silver]

I'm compiling mine too, although I spent a while sorting out the compiling tools on Hazes site a couple of releases back - and now its changed again.

Think I will start off again from 0.92....