Author Topic: I am a terrible solderer (Read 8394 times)

ChadTower · « **on:** December 23, 2004, 02:08:26 pm »

Okay, my soldering station came in... so I immediately took some junk pcbs I have and tried desoldering some components...

I suck at this.

ChadTower · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2004, 02:14:48 pm »

Okay, now some specific questions. Should I be trying to desolder components using the 20 or 40watt setting? 20W didn't seem to be enough and 40W nearly fried everything it came into contact with.

Should I stop trying to do this with the screwdriver tip it came with?

Apollo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2004, 02:31:31 pm »

Are you using a desoldering tool or braid? If you don't know what I am talking about I suggest you look for a soldering tutorial on the net.

ChadTower · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2004, 02:35:13 pm »

I have a solderpult... a one handed vacuum desolderer.

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=64-2098

HaRuMaN · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2004, 02:44:14 pm »

I have found that it is easier to de-solder with braid. You might want to try it.

RayB · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2004, 02:46:50 pm »

I use a standard cheap-ass soldering iron from Radio Shack (the typical "pointy-tipped stick" type), and a "solder sucker".

Two rules I've learned:
1. Be patient and wait for your iron to fully heat up. It should be hot enough that only a couple seconds touching the old solder is all you need to melt it. I used to have some difficulty cuz I'd wait and wait and it would take for ever for the solder to melt, then it would and I'd remove the iron and it would go solid real quickly, etc... Turns out I need a good 5-10 minutes for the thing to reach optimal heat.

2. Use a solder sucker when de-soldering stuff. I first started using a soldering iron in my late teens, but it wasn't until years later that I saw a technician use this thing called a solder sucker. I eventually got one, and you know, it was stupid not to have one from the start. You have to suck off ALL solder when removing components.

ChadTower · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2004, 02:52:39 pm »

As posted above, I do have a solder sucker.

I guess I need to get a magnifier since I don't even SEE the things that well, probably worse than I think too. I let the iron heat up quite a while... I'd apply a bit more solder to the joint so there's more to conduct... I'd try to reheat it, it would melt, I'd suck the solder off, and only half the solder would come off or only the new solder would come off, leaving me exactly where I started. Then the area around the joint would be shiny and look like it was starting to melt so I'd be paranoid I was destroying the pcb.

Apollo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 23, 2004, 03:12:26 pm »

Solder suckers bite ass, you need braid to do a decent job.

JustMichael · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2004, 03:54:44 pm »

ChadTower, first off PRACTICE!!! Sit down and practice soldering and desoldering for 8 hours straight (yes a few breaks are ok) on those old pcb's. You will be tired and a bit sore but your skills will improve remarkably!

Apollo · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2004, 03:59:55 pm »

And if you are going to do that for gods sake do it in a well ventilated area.

MoonDog · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2004, 04:11:21 pm »

solder suckers work well once you get the hang of it, but i certainly wouldn't recommend starting out with one. you need to move very quickly before the solder re-hardens.

get some solder braid like was suggested. lay the copper braid over the solder to be removed and then place the iron tip on top of the braid. as the solder melts it will wick into the braid. be careful to keep the braid away from solder that you do not want removed.

practice will make you a pro.

NoOne=NBA= · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2004, 04:16:57 pm »

I usually use a combo of sucking and braid.
I SUCK the majority of it off, and then use the braid for cleanup.
I've always had a problem getting large amounts of solder off with braid, without heating up the components.
The sucker gets alot of solder off quickly, leaving less to deal with when you come back with the braid.

My technique with the sucker is to actually get it right down WITH the tip of the iron, and then swap the iron tip and sucker tip WHILE hitting the button.
Basically, you almost touch the two tips while swapping.
You also need to make sure you are dead-on to the solder you are sucking.
If you try to suck with the sucker tilted, it won't develop as much vacuum, and will suck LESS solder because of it.

Trimoor · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2004, 04:27:08 pm »

Desoldering is always a pain in the ass. If you're doing it with an iron, you must get every speck of solder off every joint on a component. Suckers and braids just don't work very well.

My technique is to use a propane/butane torch. Melt all of the joints at once, then just pull the component out without removing any solder. It's much faster and easier, but you have to be careful not to burn the board.

MoonDog · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2004, 04:30:38 pm »

Quote from: NoOne=NBA= on December 23, 2004, 04:16:57 pm

... actually get it right down WITH the tip of the iron, and then swap the iron tip and sucker tip WHILE hitting the button.
Basically, you almost touch the two tips while swapping.

I second that motion!

Ken Layton · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2004, 06:23:52 pm »

I use a Soldapult brand solder sucker and a 25 watt iron and I have no problems unsoldering or soldering. OIf course I have been doing it for over 30 years.

oceanman93 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2004, 07:37:49 pm »

The sucker is a consumable. Sometimes it might even melt a little but it gets the job done if you get it right in there. It can always be reshaped/groomed for the next job. Especially convienent when work supplies them limitlessly. I have had good luck with braids as well. Just need that heat! Make sure you have an iron that is capable of producing it. I've melted car radiators with torches!

SirPeale · « **Reply #16 on:** December 23, 2004, 07:39:34 pm »

Quote from: oceanman93 on December 23, 2004, 07:37:49 pm

The sucker is a consumable.

And you can replace the tips, IIRC.

The bad thing is when you unscrew it too many times. I had a sucker for years and years. Then my kid got ahold of it, and completely stripped the threads. I had to buy another one.

Searcher7 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2004, 10:09:12 pm »

My problem is not in desoldering but in soldering. My inability to solder has put me months behind on projects that I really need to get done.

The very first time I had to solder, everything worked out because I had this soldering gun that unspool the solder when the trigger was pressed.

Now I need four hands, for the solder, the soldering gun/pencil, the work, and whatever I'm soldering it to.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

vader · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2004, 10:42:39 pm »

Solder suckers work just fine. I have been using them at work forever working on pagers and cell phones and at home working on satellite dishes, so big or small they work fine once you learn to use them. I use a Weller station at about 750 F to work with, but I'm not sure how that equates to watts. Make sure you are not using the very tip of the iron, you want to use the angled part since this will transfer more heat and make your job much easier. Also remember to heat the solder, not the componet....heat solder, then touch the points you wish to solder the part to. One last bit of advice. If you are having a hard time get a componet off, apply some more solder, makes it easier to working with, you can always heat the points and remove the componet, then suck the holes clean.

Tim

oceanman93 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 23, 2004, 11:14:18 pm »

Speaking of four hands, you also might want to use helpers (I set up all of my projects in a stand with clips (two hands) so that my other two hands can actually be useful. I think I paid like $15 for a clip based stand. It is amazing what you can do with four hands (ask my girlfriend!)

Trimoor · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2004, 11:17:16 pm »

You just beat me to the post oceanman93, but here is a pic of a solder helper:
Very usefull, once you scrap the magnifier. (My eyes are fine!)

fatbasta · « **Reply #21 on:** December 27, 2004, 08:54:56 pm »

Speaking of soldering.... Has anyone tried those new coldheat soldering irons? They use 4 aa and what looks like a ceramic tip. It's supposed to heat instantly and cool instantly. I keep seeing them advertised on TV. I'm always afraid that one of my kids will end-up getting hurt on the the one I'm using now. It takes so long for it to heat and cool down.

versapak · « **Reply #22 on:** December 27, 2004, 08:58:57 pm »

I haven't used one personally, but I have heard opinoins on it.

Most say that it works excellently, except for the fact that it only has a fat tip, so any fine soldering is going to require the tried and true that we are used to.

fatbasta · « **Reply #23 on:** December 27, 2004, 09:47:25 pm »

I just happened on a lengthy discussion on the merits of the Coldheat soldering device.

krick · « **Reply #24 on:** December 28, 2004, 01:35:04 am »

I find it helps immensely to put EXTRA solder on a joint before trying to use the solder sucker.

Searcher7 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 28, 2004, 09:52:56 pm »

I was abou to ask if someone could make a video showing soldering in action, but I think I'll get a "coldheat" solder, because I'm making adaptors that only basically require soldering wires to fingerboards.

I wish there was a local place to get it, because I need it yesterday.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

fatbasta · « **Reply #26 on:** December 28, 2004, 10:45:25 pm »

No Home Depot or Radio Shack near by?

Trimoor · « **Reply #27 on:** December 28, 2004, 11:03:28 pm »

I just got a coldheat today, but I am not very impressed. It was very difficult for it to make an electrical connection and thus produce heat, even when trying to simply tin 18 gauge steel wire. It also seems like the tip material absorbs the flux from the solder, making an electrical connection very difficult.

I only bought it to replace my portable butane iron (the stupid thing leaks), but it may not even be able to do that.

More testing is needed.

ChadTower · « **Reply #28 on:** April 29, 2005, 03:21:54 pm »

Grr... I still suck REALLY BADLY. I let the iron heat up for 15 minutes and still I can only seem to get the solder molten if I actually put the tip to the solder... aren't you supposed to heat up the component leg and touch the solder to the leg?

RandyT · « **Reply #29 on:** April 29, 2005, 04:05:26 pm »

Quote from: ChadTower on April 29, 2005, 03:21:54 pm

Grr... I still suck REALLY BADLY. I let the iron heat up for 15 minutes and still I can only seem to get the solder molten if I actually put the tip to the solder... aren't you supposed to heat up the component leg and touch the solder to the leg?

The textbook answer is that you should heat the pad/leg and put the solder to it. You need to be very careful with IC's though, as excessive heat can damage them internally.

The reason you are probably not doing so well is not enough surface area of the tip is making contact with the part you want to get hot. Tinning and Cleaning the tip with solder and a damp cellulose sponge will help if you aren't already doing this. Tinning puts a thin layer of solder on the tip that will aid in good transfer of heat to the components you are soldering.

Regardless of how you get there, a good solder joint is a good solder joint. The thing that is ultimately important is that there are no "blobs" or "balls" of solder and that the connections are nice and shiny when they cool. If they are "grey" or overly dull, there's a good chance that the joint is "cold" and will cause a problem over time.

RandyT

ChadTower · « **Reply #30 on:** April 29, 2005, 04:19:41 pm »

Hrm... see, the tinning is part of what I am bad at. How exactly does one tin? When I do it, I end up with burned solder on the tip, that eventually just builds up and I have to take an emory board to the tip to get it off... I suspect my biggest problem is that the tips get dirty so fast the way I'm doing it, that they don't conduct heat well anymore.

edwardvci · « **Reply #31 on:** April 29, 2005, 04:57:11 pm »

If your getting solder on the tip of your iron and want to clean it of do it while the iron is on take a damp sponge lay it on a flat surface with protection under it (meat of some sort)and wipe the tip on it. You will darken the sponge this is normal but you will have a nice clean tip.

Avery · « **Reply #32 on:** April 29, 2005, 05:53:23 pm »

Trouble with tinning. Hmmmmmm.....

Also, are you sure you are using the right kind of solder? Solid plumbers solder requires a flux. Electricle solder has a flux core (it's not the same kind of flux, so don't even think it!

If that doesn't help, clean up your parts with some very fine sandpaper (like 800 grit) or a fine needle file. For solder to work it needs a clean surface.

rdagger · « **Reply #33 on:** April 29, 2005, 06:57:39 pm »

I've experienced everything you mention when I learned to solder. You have to take care of your tip. If you can't tin it you might want to get another tip. As a beginner it's easier to solder if the tip is in good shape. I usually clean the tip on a wet sponge after every joint.

Paul Olson · « **Reply #34 on:** April 29, 2005, 08:44:06 pm »

I tried the coldheat from radio shack. I think I am going to return it. It is hard to get a connection, most of the time, I have to exert quite a bit of pressure to get the workpiece hot enough. I'll test it some more, but I don't think it will be a keeper.

As to the topic, it takes a lot of practice! Keep the tip clean. Clean the area to be soldered to make sure there isn't any grease or anything else that could cause a problem.

I've heard a pencil eraser works well for cleaning, but I haven't tried it.

Paul

dabone · « **Reply #35 on:** April 29, 2005, 10:47:06 pm »

I wear old jeans, and wipe off the tip every 2 or 3 joints I make.

(Actually most of my jeans have the stripes on the upper right leg..)

This is a pic of the iron I use, not too expensive, but go ahead and get a small round, not a spade tip like it comes with.

I have used this setup for doing monitors, pcbs, pinball pcbs, xbox 28 pin mods, ps1's, and anything else I can think of.

That iron and a cheap solder sucker from radioshack will get 99% of all soldering needs done.

(Unless of course you need to get into smt..)

p.s. for cleaning the surfaces of what you are working on, very fine sand paper works, or I often use the needle tips of my multimeter to scrape away to the clean metal underneath the corossion.
(These are tips made to puncture through the insulation of a wire, not the standard large tips)

Later,
dabone

MrSaLTy · « **Reply #36 on:** April 29, 2005, 11:00:16 pm »

If you do a google search for solder tutorial you will get a lots of hits... there are some real good tutorials for someone just learning to solder. Try to find the thinest solder you can as it is MUCH easier to work with. I put the tip right into the crack between the pad and the leg of the resistor etc that i am soldering and then push the tip of the solder right between then.... it melts and fills the space. Once you get better at it this will take about 2 seconds. Not long enough to damage anything.... although its still a good idea to use sockets for an IC's you are soldering.

Hoagie_one · « **Reply #37 on:** April 30, 2005, 09:53:34 am »

Quote from: HarumaN on December 23, 2004, 02:44:14 pm

I have found that it is easier to de-solder with braid.

Timstuff · « **Reply #38 on:** April 30, 2005, 06:29:36 pm »

My dad handled all the soldering for my mouse hack. He uses that braided copper material, puts it ontop of one of the soldered connections, and places the solder iron on it so that the solder will melt and be "soaked up" by the braid. I can't remember the specific name of the material, but I'm sure someone has already said it. Also, be very careful about where you touch with the iron! If you aren't careful, you could burn a circuit on the board and cause it to lift, thus making it useless. This happened to us while making the mouse hack on our last circuit, but fortunately we were able to use a multimeter to trace the circuit's source on the PCB and solder it there instead.

My Dad's an engineer so he's quite familiar with soldering stuff. But I'm sure that once you know the techniques you'll be able to get good at it after a little practice.

cholin · « **Reply #39 on:** April 30, 2005, 06:33:09 pm »

Quote

He uses that braided copper material, puts it ontop of one of the soldered connections, and places the solder iron on it so that the solder will melt and be "soaked up" by the braid. I can't remember the specific name of the material, but I'm sure someone has already said it.

Ohh, this one's hard, umm, Desoldering Braid?

You almost said it in your description.


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