Wiring and disconnects

[cdbrown]

Hi all,

Went to the local hardware store on the weekend and had a look at the various things I will probably need to purchase in the near future (flouro, casters etc) and came across the small electrical section which contained quick disconnects or female spades.  I checked quite a few of them to see which was the best fit on the microswitch until after trying a couple of them realised the sizing on the packet referred only to the thickness of the wire it will be crimped to.  I remember many people recommending 0.187" (5mm) which I take is the width of the spade and not the wire.  Is this the case?  Also they had plastic sleaves on the end is that necessary?  As if I can find them without I'm sure they woul be cheaper.  If I use these it will probably cost me about AU$40 (~US$24) just for the 200 connectors.  Does this sound about right about US$0.10 per disconnect.

Also which size wire do you recommend - I see alot of people have either got 22 or 28AWG wire.  I will be using stranded wire as I don't seem to work well with solid core.  They will be connected to DB25 connectors so what is the recommended size for the connector?  Also what is the size of these wires in mm as that's the sizing on the packets.

1 more question - I have seen people use terminal barriers in their panels, is it recommended to do this and where would they go - between the microswitches and the DB25 or between the DB25 and the encoders.  Just thinking about it would seem I don't need it as it is something that could cause a problem in the link.

All suggestions welcome.  Thanks in advance.  I'm going to a small electronics store at lunch to see if they have anything that fits better.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Tiger-Heli]

I don't have AU price sources, so some of this might not apply.

I remember many people recommending 0.187" (5mm) which I take is the width of the spade and not the wire.  Is this the case?

Yes!

Also they had plastic sleaves on the end is that necessary?  As if I can find them without I'm sure they woul be cheaper.

That's insulation.  They come usually insulated (sleeves over the crimp) or fully insulated (sleeves all the way over the spade as well, more expensive, as you say).  I haven't seen completely uninsulated.  IMHO, the insulation would not be required for a project like this.

 If I use these it will probably cost me about AU$40 (~US$24) just for the 200 connectors.  Does this sound about right about US$0.10 per disconnect.

Interesting, I need 200 connectors also.

Radio Shack wants $7.59 per 100 for fully insulated terminals.
Digi-key wants $8.15 for insulated teminals.
http://www.allelectronics.com/ has them partially insulated for $4.50 per 100, which is the best price I have found.

Also which size wire do you recommend - I see alot of people have either got 22 or 28AWG wire.  I will be using stranded wire as I don't seem to work well with solid core.  They will be connected to DB25 connectors so what is the recommended size for the connector?  Also what is the size of these wires in mm as that's the sizing on the packets.

Rather than DB25 connectors, I recommend buying DB25 cables and cutting them in two.  Cheaper and you already have wires running to the pins and don't have to solder/crimp to the pin terminals.  Cables usually use 28 gauge for the internal wire.  Otherwise, 22 gauge is easy to use to crimp the terminal ends to.  I prefer stranded wire also.

1 more question - I have seen people use terminal barriers in their panels, is it recommended to do this and where would they go - between the microswitches and the DB25 or between the DB25 and the encoders.  Just thinking about it would seem I don't need it as it is something that could cause a problem in the link.

Definitely recommended.  If you have an I-PAC, it comes with screw terminals so you don't need them there.  Run from the DB25 cable to the TB, then run 22 GA from the TB to the switch.

Advantages - simpler or more secure than soldering or using butt connectors between the wires.  Also, If you build your panel and then decide that your 4 player panel would work better as 3 1 2 4 instead of 1 2 3 4, or vice versa, you just loosen the screws and move the wires around.

[cdbrown]

Thanks for the help Tiger-Heli, it's just what I needed.

Went to the local electronics shop (well a couple anyway but only one had them) and found 4.8mm quick-connects.  These were quite hard to push on so I guess that's what I need.  It has the red insulation on the wire end.  Unfortunately not any where near as cheap as your best price about AU$11 for 50.  Now I know the right size I can search a little further on the net for local retailers.

Rather than DB25 connectors, I recommend buying DB25 cables and cutting them in two.  Cheaper and you already have wires running to the pins and don't have to solder/crimp to the pin terminals.  Cables usually use 28 gauge for the internal wire.  Otherwise, 22 gauge is easy to use to crimp the terminal ends to

While looking in the shop at the connectors I realised I didn't want to have to spend the time to solder all those bits so I will be using the cable.  

Does the DB25 actually have 25 pins so 24 and 1 ground?
I will need 2 of these cables for the 4-player, do both of the cables need to run a ground wire hence having 48 inputs and 2 grounds?
I'm still sticking with the 8 buttons for 1P and 2P which will leave me with 4 for 3P and 4P (I am having 1 credit and 1 start for each player)?

Come to think of it I probably will take the credit buttons off the CP which will free up 4 inputs or 2 extra for 3P and 4P.  Maybe I should get myself a coin door.  I remember that some of the 4 player games actually required each player to put their money into the corresponding coin slot - hence having 4 slots.  
Does mame also need this as they have allowed 5,6,7,8 as coins?  Might have to mount the buttons between the screen and panel.

Looks like I have more thinking and planning to do  

Cheers
-cbdrown

[Tiger-Heli]

Does the DB25 actually have 25 pins so 24 and 1 ground?

See my FAQ at http://www.fraggersxtreme.com/arcadepanels/faq.htm, You need to be careful to buy fully populated DB25 cables.  Some of them (like joystick cables) will have 25 pins but only 10 or 12 wires connected    A fully populated should have at least 24 wires in it.  Sometimes the ground wire is just a shielded braid that wraps around the other wires, but I think this is still usable.  I haven't actually cut one yet, so not speaking from experience here, but I definitely need all 25 wires for my panels so I sure hope I'm right .

I will need 2 of these cables for the 4-player, do both of the cables need to run a ground wire hence having 48 inputs and 2 grounds?

Ermmm . . .  need to, no, you can run all your grounds through cable 1 for 49 inputs and 1 ground.  OTOH, if you can do it, it's probably cleaner to run each group of buttons and their ground through the same cable (easier for troubleshooting, etc.)

Come to think of it I probably will take the credit buttons off the CP which will free up 4 inputs or 2 extra for 3P and 4P.  Maybe I should get myself a coin door.  I remember that some of the 4 player games actually required each player to put their money into the corresponding coin slot - hence having 4 slots.  
Does mame also need this as they have allowed 5,6,7,8 as coins?  Might have to mount the buttons between the screen and panel.

Agreed about taking the credit buttons off the CP, in fact, you will probably want the start and function buttons available for all games, so I would mount these on the cab, not the removable CP as well.

As far as coins, doesn't matter whether it's a coin door or just buttons on the CP, MAME sees them the same way.  I thought you had individual coin buttons.  If you want to remove them, see the "Do I need a Coin 2 Input" question.  You can use the same input for coin and start.  Then when you press Start, it adds a coin and starts.  Not arcade accurate, but it works.

[Chris]

You need to be careful to buy fully populated DB25 cables.  Some of them (like joystick cables) will have 25 pins but only 10 or 12 wires connected  

You should be able to tell just from the thickness and weight of the cable.  Get the thickest 25-pin cable you can, as the individual wires inside will be a heavier gauge.  If you get an "extension" cable, as opposed to a serial or printer cable, it'll likely have all 25 pins.  Go to a used computer parts shop, if there is one around you; they'll usually have a bucket o'cables cheap, and since they'll be out of the box, you can quickly check them out with your multimeter if necessary to determine all the wires are there.  

My control panel is connected via 2 25-pin cables, each cut in half.  One was white and one was gray, so I can easily tell which ones connect together.  I used 24 wires in each cable, and I have one leftover wire in each cable that's just coiled up waiting to be used.  There was a foil wrap around the cables that may have connected to the metal connector hood to act as ground.  An extension cable isn't going to have any wires explicitly reserved for ground.

As far as coins, doesn't matter whether it's a coin door or just buttons on the CP, MAME sees them the same way.  I thought you had individual coin buttons.  If you want to remove them, see the "Do I need a Coin 2 Input" question.  You can use the same input for coin and start.  Then when you press Start, it adds a coin and starts.  Not arcade accurate, but it works.

If you are not putting in a coin door, get two or four (depending on your virtual coin needs) rectangular illuminated pushbuttons (preferably red), like this:


(From http://www.happcontrols.com/pushbuttons/5400045x.htm)

These take 14V lamps, so run a line from the 12V wies of a spare hard drive power connecter from the PC and you'll be fine...

Now, mount them where the coin rejects would be on a real machine, and print out inserts to go in them that look like inserts on coin doors, like one of these:



Now you'll have the look of illuminated coin slots on the front, and you'll instinctively reach for the correct spot when "coining up", all without extra buttons on your CP!

--Chris

[cdbrown]

Thanks for the tips Tiger-Heli and Chris.

I do plan on having independant coin and start buttons for each player.  I will have the function buttons on the cab with player 1 and 2 coin and start.  I think I will leave player 3 and 4 coin and start on the panel.  Player 1 and 2 is common in all panels so it makes sense to have it cab mounted.

Chris I like the idea of the illuminated pushbutton, I will check these out.

So at the moment the 4-player panel will have 4 joysticks (16 inputs), 3P and 4P coin and start (4 inputs), 1P and 2P 8 buttons (16 inputs), 3P and 4P 6 buttons (12 inputs) creating 48 inputs.  1P and 2P with ground on 1st DB25, 3P and 4P with ground on 2nd DB25.

I have seen people using flat cables instead of round allowing you to trace the wire easier, can you get the extension cable in flat version?  From the sound of Chris talking about getting the thickest cable it would seem not?  Just want to know what I should look for when I go and chat with the IT guys for some spare cables.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Chris]

Who needs to trace them?  You cut the cable in half, connect the connectors together, and the wires hanging out each end are already color-coded and matched up red with white stripe on one side goes to red with white stripe on the other....

--Chris

[cdbrown]

Thanks.  I didn't know what was inderneath the cable cover, but if it's that easy then great - all the better.

Cheers
-cdbrown

[cdbrown]

So to make it clear for myself and any other interested parties, the 4-player cab will be wired like this.

P1 joystick and player buttons creates 12 inputs which are wired to a 12 input barrier strip.  P2 will be the same.  I will run a ground starting somewhere on P1 running through P2 to a ground terminal strip.  The other side of these three strips will be the first half of the DB25 extension cable - 24 inputs 1 ground.  The second half of the cable will be connected to the ipac.

P3 and P4 have joysticks, 6 player buttons and start/credit - so again each player has 12 inputs.  Same as before run a ground giving the last input for the db25 cable.

So for the wires to the IPAC4 - 4x12 input barrier strips and 1x2 input barrier strip (grounds).

Same thing will apply for hooking up the opticals from P1 and P2 for the optipac but with the appropriate sized cable to accommodate the wires (I think there are 5 or 6 for each but not sure).

So there you have it for the 4-player panel.  The other 2 panels will only require to connect to the 1st DB25 and the optipac.

P1 and P2 credit and start will be mounted on the cab as well as the function buttons and wired straight to the ipac.  Probably share the 1st ipac ground terminal.

Thanks to everyone for their help - it has made it very clear with what I need to do with the wiring.  Questions will follow regarding wiring the rest of the cab I'm sure .

Cheers
-cdbrown

[Tiger-Heli]

Same thing will apply for hooking up the opticals from P1 and P2 for the optipac but with the appropriate sized cable to accommodate the wires (I think there are 5 or 6 for each but not sure).

Should be four each - +5V, Gnd, X1, and X2.

BTW, I don't know if anyone else has done this, but you should be able to do the same thing for the opti-pac that you did with the I-PAC, only using DB9 extension cables this time.

Remember you can use the same +5v and Gnd terminals for both joysticks.  So your connections become:

Pin 1 - +5V to opti-pac and both rotary joysticks, trackballs
Pin 2 - GND to opti-pac and both rotary joysticks, trackballs
Pin 3 - X1 to opti-pac and rotary joystick 1, trackball x1
Pin 4 - X2 to opti-pac and rotary joystick 1, trackball x2
Pin 5 - Y1 to opti-pac and rotary joystick 2, trackball y1
Pin 6 - Y2 to opti-pac and rotary joystick 2, trackball y2

Pins 7-9 three options -

Option 1 - not used

Option 2 - Trackball 1 button 1, Trackball 1 button 2, Trackball 2 button 1

Option 3 - Run a connector (a cut cd-rom audio cable should work) from the A-Lo/A-Hi connector on the opti-pac to Pins 7 and 8.  Then on the device side you can either short 7 and 8 or leave them open to switch between Active HI and Active Lo.

Note:  Happ optic boards automatically detect and switch between A-HI and A-Lo, so this would only be required if you had some weird config like your t-ball was A-Lo and your spinner was A-Hi.

[cdbrown]

Thanks Tiger-Heli - you've been a great help with this wiring stuff.

Not too sure about this Lo Hi stuff.  Have the oscar Model 2 spinners to suit the optipac, will be getting the happs optical rotaries and the trackballs are serials just like 1UP's.  I may hack the trackball to the optipac to utilise the existing cables but not until someone else has done it as I have no idea what so ever.

Thanks again.

Cheers
-cdbrown