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Author Topic: controller for quadriplegic  (Read 73929 times)

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Stingray

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #200 on: January 03, 2005, 01:48:14 pm »
I've been off work, and offline for the last two weeks for xmas vacation. I'm very happy to see that enthusiasm for this project has not died down any. At this point I don't know that there's anything I can offer other than encouragement at this point, but please feel free to ask if there's anyting I can do. I'll continue watching this thread and if any needed parts that I have pop up I'll be happy to donate. In the meantime, kudos to you guys who are doing the actual design and building.

-S
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #201 on: January 04, 2005, 11:56:11 am »
I first want to say that I really appreciate what you all are doing to help this guy and all the other disabled people that happen to find this thread, myself included. I am in a similar situation to Seanwheels and have been trying to think of a way to build a controller that would allow me to play any console game.

I have been using an x-arcade controller for about a year now and I've been able to play most of the games that do not require the use of both analog sticks at the same time. The three games that I am playing now are KOTOR2 (Xbox), MGS3 and GTA:SA (PS2). The major limitations I have found while playing these games are:

- Lack of analog joystick
- Not enough controls (buttons, joysticks) for games that require the use of both analog joysticks
- switching between left/right analog and d-pad requires pushing a button that affects game play
- Lack of L3 and R3 buttons
- Lack of ability to remap the button layout

I believe that the lack of ability to remap the button layout is a major flaw in the design that you have proposed for seanwheels. I guarantee that there are games out there that use button combinations that would be impossible to execute with this controller. One of the problems I have while playing MGS3 is being able to aim and shoot my weapon. To do this I have to press two buttons (R1 and square) with the side of my hand and I always accidentally hit other buttons in the process. The button layout you have proposed would probably eliminate accidentally hitting other buttons, but if you don't allow the user to remap the buttons for different games it will not work in certain situations.

What hardware/software would you need to be able to remap the buttons like this? I know that the x-arcade controller has the ability to re-map the joystick to emulate left/right analog or d-pad controls. What would be needed to remap all the buttons on the controller?

I was also wondering why they have decided to rip out the analog sticks from the pelican arcade controllers instead of using something like the 49-way joystick from Happ Controls http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/a219391.htm I understand the price differences, but are there any technical reasons for this decision?

I was thinking that in order to solve all of these limitations I would have to create some custom hardware/software. Something like a custom version of the I-PAC http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html or a custom version of the hardware in the x-arcade. That way I could add as many buttons as I'd like and be able to remap the buttons. Is this the case? Programming a custom microcontroller seems like a daunting task, and isn't something I really want to do.

Justin

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #202 on: January 04, 2005, 05:25:48 pm »
dunno if this is any help for you lot but i found this on ebay see if its any good! its ps2 compatible too...


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11319&item=8158715493&rd=1

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #203 on: January 05, 2005, 03:26:26 pm »
I have one of those. The analog sticks don't work in PS2 games, they work fine on PS1 though.

-S
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2005, 05:54:20 pm »
dang! ah well it was worth a try

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #205 on: January 06, 2005, 05:32:25 pm »
I got the revised diag from Sea Monkey today, haven't heard from Sean lately though, hope all is well.  I will have some new drawings up asap.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #206 on: January 06, 2005, 09:58:09 pm »
I sent you mail to the acct that you have posted on the board.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #207 on: January 07, 2005, 08:28:38 am »
I'll make another trip out there Saturday, and check up on Sean.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #208 on: January 07, 2005, 10:00:46 am »
Re-checking my email he sent me a note 12/25/04 saying his P3 with the voice recognition sw crashed.  The note was typed and brief.  That may be why he is not posting too much.  Also, he replied that a trackball may be a good thing too.


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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #209 on: January 07, 2005, 10:43:59 am »
I first want to say that I really appreciate what you all are doing to help this guy and all the other disabled people that happen to find this thread, myself included. I am in a similar situation to Seanwheels and have been trying to think of a way to build a controller that would allow me to play any console game.

I have been using an x-arcade controller for about a year now and I've been able to play most of the games that do not require the use of both analog sticks at the same time. The three games that I am playing now are KOTOR2 (Xbox), MGS3 and GTA:SA (PS2). The major limitations I have found while playing these games are:

- Lack of analog joystick
- Not enough controls (buttons, joysticks) for games that require the use of both analog joysticks
- switching between left/right analog and d-pad requires pushing a button that affects game play
- Lack of L3 and R3 buttons
- Lack of ability to remap the button layout

I believe that the lack of ability to remap the button layout is a major flaw in the design that you have proposed for seanwheels. I guarantee that there are games out there that use button combinations that would be impossible to execute with this controller. One of the problems I have while playing MGS3 is being able to aim and shoot my weapon. To do this I have to press two buttons (R1 and square) with the side of my hand and I always accidentally hit other buttons in the process. The button layout you have proposed would probably eliminate accidentally hitting other buttons, but if you don't allow the user to remap the buttons for different games it will not work in certain situations.

What hardware/software would you need to be able to remap the buttons like this? I know that the x-arcade controller has the ability to re-map the joystick to emulate left/right analog or d-pad controls. What would be needed to remap all the buttons on the controller?

I was also wondering why they have decided to rip out the analog sticks from the pelican arcade controllers instead of using something like the 49-way joystick from Happ Controls http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/a219391.htm I understand the price differences, but are there any technical reasons for this decision?

I was thinking that in order to solve all of these limitations I would have to create some custom hardware/software. Something like a custom version of the I-PAC http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html or a custom version of the hardware in the x-arcade. That way I could add as many buttons as I'd like and be able to remap the buttons. Is this the case? Programming a custom microcontroller seems like a daunting task, and isn't something I really want to do.

Justin


Justin,

Hello and I'm glad you found the thread.  I hope you stick around!  On the remapping, we are looking at that issue and also discussing the need for input jacks that would allow Sean to add any additional input devices as needed.  that suggestion came from Barrie at OneSwitch.org.  Great site, you should check it out as it addresses many of the issues you discussed.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #210 on: January 09, 2005, 08:47:24 pm »
Any more developments on the controller for Sean?

Saint, how much of the funds have been used so far and how much is left?

It looks like Sean has been down a little while. Hope everything is OK with him...
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #211 on: January 09, 2005, 10:33:06 pm »
I should have the designs done by tommorow based on the info from Sean and Sea Monkey.  Lotsa family distractions this weekend. 

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Re: controller for quadriplegic - New Design Sketch
« Reply #212 on: January 10, 2005, 10:05:54 am »
Small update,

Here is the preliminary sketch of the new design. I did this from Sea Monkey's template to get the dimensions down.  If I remember correctly he said that this will be on a slope, the front of the cp (farthest from Sean) at 5" height and the closest at 4" height.  Sea Monkey please confirm.  Also, I wasn't sure from the template if the wheel idea was still wanted (the wheels that assist in switching from one joy to another).  Let me know. 

Better plans to follow soon.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #213 on: January 10, 2005, 03:05:12 pm »
The back (farthest from Sean) side of the controller should be 5" high including beanbag, and the other end should be 4" high, to accomodate him in bed.

Sean says that pillows can work if that is too much trouble.


Help me out...what is this wheel?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #214 on: January 10, 2005, 03:47:53 pm »
The back (farthest from Sean) side of the controller should be 5" high including beanbag, and the other end should be 4" high, to accomodate him in bed.

Sean says that pillows can work if that is too much trouble.


Help me out...what is this wheel?


Re: Wheel - Check out my second post on this page, you can see the wheel there - http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php/topic,28718.120.html


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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #215 on: January 10, 2005, 05:13:14 pm »
I am not sure what that is for. LOL

Sean never mentioned it. Is this a switch activating one joystick or the other, or does it just facilitate movement?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #216 on: January 10, 2005, 05:18:32 pm »
You guys are truly awesome. Such a nice thing you guys are doing!
"Computer games don't affect kids, I mean if Pac Man
affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in
darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to
repetitive music." -- Marcus Brigstocke

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #217 on: January 10, 2005, 09:44:03 pm »
Ok, just a fast sanity check - here is the overall footprint, I have set it on a slope from front to back, 5" high at the front, 4" high at the back (the end of the arm wrests). Just wanted to make sure the 4" height is at the end of the arm wrests and not the portion that is just in font of Sean's torso -


On the wheels, the ide was he could use them to transition from one joystick to another without having to lifft his hand.  Maye we can put the wheel on one side of the prototype and Sean can try it out.

Check out the picks and let me know what you think.  BTW: Did you see Sean this weekend?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #218 on: January 11, 2005, 07:45:07 am »
No, my wife and I went out there but he wasn't there.

Sean just sent me a PM that he has moved, so I am going to check out the new address this weekend. I am not sure if he has the same phone number or not, but I am going to try that too.

Yeah the idea was that the shorter end is at the end of the arm rests.


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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #219 on: January 13, 2005, 12:30:23 pm »
Hope all is well with Sean.

-S
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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #220 on: January 13, 2005, 01:20:28 pm »
All, here is a quick update -

Hiub1 did some testing with the pelican stick.  It does not appear to be a true analog joystick and it is apparently a bit chincy.  Hiub1 did some preliminary testing with the gamepad analog joystick and it appears we can use a true analog joystick fom  Happs. ( http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50287600.htm )  We can then use two of the analog sticks and two ultimate 4 ways from Happs.

He is speaking with a happs rep on a related issue and we should know more today or tommorow.  I have yet to open the pelican or gamepad I recieved, which is good as we may be returning those items, certainly the pelican is going back.

I still need to finish the revised plans and mockup, and have a three day weekend comming up so that should give me the time needed to reach those milestones.

It looks like the offer for the account at Happs is going to pay off big as those analog sticks are not cheap.  They  will however be very durable and should serve the purpose well for a long time.

Sean if your out there drop one of us a line so we know all is well and Sea Monkey if you are able to visit, let us know.  Arcadiac reminded me that when someone with disabilites moves it can take a good deal longer to get settled in so I am assumming Sean is busy getting situated.

Also, right now we are planning to purchase the following from Happs -

4 pushbuttons
2 ultimate 4 way sticks
2 ultimate analog sticks

That will leave us with about $75-$100 on account (minus shipping fees) so if there is anything else anyone sees we may need from happs, please chime in before we order.

Thanks!


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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #221 on: January 13, 2005, 02:15:45 pm »
wow everybody is doing a fantastic job.  I just have one question about the 4 ways.  Why not get the 4-8 ways you know the one you can change back and fourth.  Im sure you guys have this all figured out I was just asking for myself.

Once again great job on getting all this togther. You guys rock
"A true warrior enters the arena with all his powers at the ready." ~ Gouki

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #222 on: January 13, 2005, 02:55:29 pm »
You know, now that I think about it, it will probably be a better idea to use an 8way for the d-pad movement since some games do require you to move diagonally. I think the competition stick is also a bit better quality than the ultimates. I will look further into this, and I have sent an email to the Happs rep and I should be getting an answer tonight or tomorrow morning.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #223 on: January 13, 2005, 05:06:09 pm »
We might also consider the Universal stick to allow switching back and forth - http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/50604800.htm

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #224 on: January 14, 2005, 12:48:13 am »
isnt there a stick that has a little lever on the top of the mounting plate that lets you move it to a 4 or 8 way?


"A true warrior enters the arena with all his powers at the ready." ~ Gouki

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #225 on: January 14, 2005, 03:37:46 pm »
Hey everyone, I am new to this board and I know I'm the millionth person to say something like this, but what you are all doing is awesome.  I am also a quadriplegic looking for a video game controller so I have just a few questions that you might have answered in some of the previous pages.  Are you making just a one-time controller or are you making a design that you plan to duplicate?  And if you are duplicating it do you have any idea how much it will cost for materials or construction fee or whatever the heck you decide to charge?  I'll be keeping up on here!  Good luck

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #226 on: January 14, 2005, 03:44:15 pm »
Hey everyone, I am new to this board and I know I'm the millionth person to say something like this, but what you are all doing is awesome.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #227 on: January 15, 2005, 05:53:10 am »
Very exciting news!

I'd be happy to mirror and promote your finished plans permanantly on my Public Domain "D.I.Y. assistive technology" pages, with your agreement:

http://www.oneswitch.org.uk/4/DIY/index.htm

Best wishes with it, and good on you all,

Barrie

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #228 on: January 15, 2005, 06:51:15 am »
Thought you may all be interested in the following links:

www.atariage.com/magazines/magazine_page.html?MagazineID=54&CurrentPage=6
The article is from the UK Atari owner's club, featuring a guy with Muscular Dystrophy playing games with an adapted Atari controller in 1982.

And this from 1981: www.quadcontrol.com/about.htm

Good old Atari...

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #229 on: January 16, 2005, 03:26:06 pm »
1hookedspacecadet,

How do you plan on interfacing the Happ analog stick with the Platstation?

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #230 on: January 16, 2005, 10:39:53 pm »
You guys are truly awesome. Such a nice thing you guys are doing!

Yeah that really is, I think it shows a lot about the people on this forum. :D

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #231 on: January 17, 2005, 12:04:51 am »
 i watched this thread from early on and im finding it hard to tell whats happened so far. can someone summerise the basics?


ROUGHING UP THE SUSPECT SINCE 1981

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #232 on: January 17, 2005, 12:13:08 am »
1hookedspacecadet,

How do you plan on interfacing the Happ analog stick with the Platstation?

Hiub1 has been spearheading the happ analog to ps2 interface.  We will be sure to post notes as we go.

Danny, right now we are about to place an order with happs for the analog and other sticks.  I am finishing up the cabinet design so we can make a mockup for sean to put his hands on then the final build.  Hope that helps.

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #233 on: January 18, 2005, 11:14:38 pm »
sure does (",)


ROUGHING UP THE SUSPECT SINCE 1981

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #234 on: January 20, 2005, 07:16:36 am »
Update;

1. I am working on the mockup now, Hiub1 was going to do it but I found that I needed to in order to work through a few issues with the design.  The final plans will depend on Sean's final input based on the mockup.  This portion is going a bit slow, but this is the price of fatherhood especially during "teething season."  I am shooting to have something complete by end of the weekend, but as always I can only do my best.

2. Regarding the Pelican sticks. The one used for testing (i.e. the one used to determine it would not work in true analog mode) will be kept for parts if needed as will the two gamepads purchased to date.  The second Pelican (unopened) is being resold to Arcadiac for the cost + shipping that was paid from the Sean CP account.  Arcadiac will be depositing these funds into the account posted by Saint. **Saint, please let me know when it is posted***  I will cover shipping to send it along to him.  When the dust settles, if we have leftover parts (i.e. the first pelican and the spare gamepad, we can sell or ebay those to recoever the funds for Sean's account).

3. We have heard from Happs regarding the analog sticks, we needed the ultimate handle sticks with the 100k pot option only currently offered for the analog sticks with the "regular" handle.  They needed to internally create a new part number etc to do this.  They will do so but the sticks will be non-returnable.  We believe we need them and that they will work so we would like to order them as well as a pair of Universal (4-way/8-way) sticks, 4 buttons, and some carriage bolts from Happs.  I may add a couple of cherry switches with armatures (like the ones used for coin mechs) to that order for the  pressure switches we talked about near the wrist to emulated the ps2 switches activatedby pressing down on the analog sticks of the gamepad)  I will compile the part numbers, prices, etc for Saint to order through the company that is donating the Happs parts.

4. Currently Sean is MIA. I have sent a couple of emails and pms with no response.  After posting this I will be sending a note to Sea Monkey to see if he has had any luck contacting Sean to see whats up.

5. PS2/Mame - The current plan is to "double-wire" the cp for both MAME and PS2.  The CP will basically be used on the platform to which it is plugged in at any given time.

6. CPO - When we finalize the layout, I would like to put a nice CPO on the CP. If anyone is willing to whip up a cool design when we get there, please let me know.


My biggest concern right now is that Sean is not checking in.  Arcadiac reminded me that it takes longer for folks in Sean's situation to get settled in to new digs, but it has been a while and I will feel better when I get some word that he is ok etc.


SeaMonkey

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #235 on: January 20, 2005, 11:06:50 pm »
Yes Sean is alive and well. He has moved to the east side, so he is quite a drive from me.

I have been working 12 hour days, due to the season of the industry I am in, but things should settle soon.

I had Christmas and New Years open for him because they are Holidays. Other than that, when I go see him, I am taking a day off, so it won't be weekly for a while.

RetroJames

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #236 on: January 21, 2005, 12:05:08 am »
Shopping...


http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/universal_joy.htm!

Price = 2 for $31.40 plus shipping

[edit] Surprised I could not find any reviews on the universal stick.


We can get the Ultimarc T-stik; It switches from above by pulling up and twisting.  They also have a ball-top version, but I think we should stick with one style.

http://ultimarc.com/controls.html

Price = 2 for $63.00 shipped

This from RetroBlast, looks like it has a short throw too, but may actually be a plus - http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/joysticks/ultimarc_tstik.html

"The T-Stik plus is a "short-throw" joystick, meaning the range of motion is much less than a typical joystick: for example, while the Happs Competition joystick has a "travel" of 15 degrees, the T-Stik Plus only moves about six degrees off of the perpendicular.
The T-Stik Plus also only engages about 1 degree before the end of the range of motion. This, combined with the short travel, produces a sensation which can throw off gamers accustomed to the relatively generous range of motion of the Happ joysticks, which engage roughly half-way through their travel.

So, is this "short-throw" motion good or bad? Neither
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 11:14:56 pm by Peale »

RetroJames

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #237 on: January 21, 2005, 12:27:43 am »
Yes Sean is alive and well. He has moved to the east side, so he is quite a drive from me.

I have been working 12 hour days, due to the season of the industry I am in, but things should settle soon.

I had Christmas and New Years open for him because they are Holidays. Other than that, when I go see him, I am taking a day off, so it won't be weekly for a while.

Ok, I got the pm.   Thanks and don't be takin' no days off!   :-\ (until we reaaallly need you to...)

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Seans Returned
« Reply #238 on: January 21, 2005, 07:45:41 am »
FYI: Got word from Sean with a number.  He is ok and now living with a roomate. 

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Re: controller for quadriplegic
« Reply #239 on: January 21, 2005, 09:38:39 am »
Then you have the GGG Prodigy that switches from the top with a lever, very good for Sean.  It only comes with a "euro" ball-top shaft though.  [EDIT] I see now it also comes in a retro ball top as well as a topfire version -

GrooyGameGear.Com Link

http://www.groovygamegear.com/page14.html

[EDIT] - KevSteele just forwarded a link to his review of the prodigy, thanks Kev!

http://www.retroblast.com/reviews/joysticks/prodigy.html


If short throw turns out to be a plus in Sean's case I can attest that the Prodigy, IMO, is the best short throw stick on the market. Also I'm guessing that it would be easier for Sean to move the switch to change between 4 way/ 8 way than it would be for him to use one of the pull up to swich type of switchable sticks.

-S
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 11:14:33 pm by Peale »
Stingray you magnificent bastard!
This place is dead lately.  Stingray scare everyone off?