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Author Topic: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition  (Read 8515 times)

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subzero23

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Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« on: November 28, 2004, 06:14:12 am »
Hopefully this will let some people realize that the ultimate isn't complete crap. I do believe it is crap for an arcade enviroment, as it gets TOO loose after extended play.

Anyway
the game I tested these on was Tekken Tag Tournament
The Ultimate Joystick is naturally loose. I believe there are two types of diagonal play....one is where in fighting games and you have to momentarily hit a diagonal etc, or continuous like in a non-fighting game where you move a character a round and may hold the stick in one direction to move the character for a short bit. This stick is very bad at momentary diagonals and is very bad for fighting games. But I see no reason why it'd be bad for continous diagonals for some games. The fact that it is naturally loose is probably better for games like that. Fighting games require precise movements while other games mostly do not. That coupled with the fact it comes with a very smooth feeling handle, which I think feels great, makes any non-fighting game that isn't arcade based a good canidate for this stick. The handle I think is just a dream to hold and use, and I think in arcades the texture smooths out even more and wears off so you get a smooth stick which may or may not be better.

The competition stick, is stiffer and makes finding diagonals better and is really good for fighting games with precise movement. But, to simulate the heavy spring I took the spring and stretched it out (maybe too much compared to the heavy spring). This was great since it allowed me to hit the diagonals dead on. I was able to do moves I had never done before which was pretty cool. 4-way movements were a bit harder but I believe that is because of my over-extending of the spring. This was great for precise movements, and I'd assume this stick would do decently for non-fighting games as well (8-way games I mean, like X-Men or Simpsons, or Metal Slug, can anyone back up this comment?). The thing I don't like is the handle, the texture/feel is different than that of the Ultimate, although I believe (thanks to my cross-eye overlap test) they are basically the same size/thickness except for the shaft. It really makes the stick feel thicker and harder than the Ultimate and makes it less comfortable.

So in the end I see no problem with getting an Ultimate if your favorite games are 8-ways, but not fighters and not 4-way games. I think if you like the loose feel then the Ultimate would be nice for you and I kind of regret that I can not use it on my machine. And get the competition if you'll even be playing ONE fighting game somewhat seriously.

I tried using the Ultimate shaft on my Competition base but it hardly activated any movement so I was disappointed I couldn't bastardize it.
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subzero23

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2004, 07:07:49 am »
I don't want to make a new post just to ask this but

are there any disadavantages to using a heavier spring?

Or am I correct in assuming it gives you better accuracy at the small cost of being a bit harder to work with? (Which isn't a problem really)

I really like Ultimate's loose feeling but it is just not accurate.
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paigeoliver

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2004, 07:27:19 am »
I wish I could give a better review of these, but they both rate very poor in my book.

I am not actually sure which one is which, but I have had many of both. I will just call them shiny handle and textured handle. The happ website shows them both with textured, but I know one is shiny and one is textured, I have had enough of the darn things to know that.

Shiny handle. A true joke. Hands down the worst joystick I have ever used, and I have used a lot of them. I am not ever sure where to start. I usually just pull these out of games on site. These also wear faster and harder than happs other sticks and tend to be in poor condition when found used. This one pretty much suffers from most of the problems of the textured handle one, with the addition of other issues (which mostly come from the fast wear).

I am unsure of what game type this joystick would be the correct choice for.

Textured handle. - Also a bad joke. The corners are bigger that the primary directions. And the stick bounces around causing extra button presses. All this adds up to bad performance in puzzle games, and near unplayability in top down games. For example, when using a REAL joystick and playing robotron, if you sweep the joystick around in a circle at a constant pace it will give you an equal amount of shots (or movement) in each of the 8 directions. But not with this garbage. With this garbage the corners are much bigger than the primaries, so those 360 firing sweeps in robotron will be all corners much of the time. Or slow sweeps will fire 4 shots out of one corner, followed by the primary, followed by 4 shots out of the next corner.

With all THAT said. This joystick would be acceptable in fighting games. It gets a bit better if you add the heavy spring (the bouncing problem goes away). I consider the heavy spring a MUST in this one.

Happ Supers

The only one of the big three worth looking at. They last a long time, they don't bounce. THey have a decent feel. They can be tuned so the diagonals are the correct size. If you must use a happ stick, then use this one. This one does not need the heavy spring.

I recently went through all 3 types in my big mame cabinet, in that order. I am still not 100 percent happy with the supers, but I can't find anymore NOS long handled wico microleafs.
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Matt Berry

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2004, 02:20:50 pm »
I'm going to have to agree with paige on this one, my original control panel I built was equipped with 2 competition joysticks. I played a lot of games with them over a 7 year period and got decent scores. My current panel has the supers in it (I'm waiting for my J & T sticks along with the old wicos to arrive so I can test them all out) but hands down every game I've played I have consistently scored way higher then I ever did with the competition joystick. For example in Crazy climber with the competitions I couldn't score higher then 95,000 points, but with the supers I can score 155,000 - 200,000 points no problem at all. Not only that but I still need to tweak them a little bit to get them more precise, and I know my scores will be even higher. Scores talk in my book, and hands down the supers blow the other two out of the water.

subzero23

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2004, 04:00:38 pm »
Hmm looks to me like you guys are using the joysticks for games other than fighting games, and I think that's where my review really relates. I think the comp is better than super at fighting games but all else super is probably better. Is crazy climber a 4-way game?

I think I'll order a super and test it side by side with a comp but I think fighting games will be heavily used on my machine
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NoOne=NBA=

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2004, 05:57:07 pm »
Subzero,

You started by saying that you wanted people to know that the Ultimates are not complete crap, then went on to list ALL of the things that make them really bad for fighter sticks.
We added to this that they are complete crap for ANYTHING else you might want to play with them.
That makes them complete crap.

If you want an 8-way that you can't feel the corners on, get a Wico (leaf/micro/P360 converted).
They are much better for games like Robotron, Time Pilot, etc... where you want to move the stick smoothly around the perimeter.
The supers are OK for games like this, but don't have anywhere near the feel to them that the Wicos do, IMO.

For games where you want to be able to feel the corners, I would highly recommend the J-stick over the Comps.
They are less prone to "twanging" when you release the stick, and have a sturdier feel to them.
If you are looking for a stick to match the arcade feel of alot of the fighter games, the Competition is probably the stick you want.
All the Happs sticks have always felt like cheap conversion game sticks to me, probably due to the fact that their main use WAS on cheap conversion games.

Gunstar Hero

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2004, 09:18:59 pm »
The P360 is a dream for fighters too BTW, almost every serious tournament level fighter fan I know adores them.

subzero23

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2004, 09:43:37 pm »
I'll have to try the P360's someday, they use the same handle/shaft as the Ultimates so they'll at least feel really nice
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Kremmit

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2004, 02:24:56 am »
I'll have to try the P360's someday, they use the same handle/shaft as the Ultimates so they'll at least feel really nice

Dude, where do you come up with this stuff?

Gunstar Hero

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2004, 02:27:55 am »
Yeah, the P360 handle is all kinds of textured.  ;)

subzero23

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2004, 02:31:37 am »
"some other newbie" heh so I'm one?

anyway it doesn't really matter
it just kinda sucks if it isn't the ultimate handle

so you have felt the p360's handle and it is the same texture as comps?

Does the comp's wear down after a while?
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Gunstar Hero

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2004, 02:44:56 am »
Well, your account is only 23 days old...

... but that's not a bad thing really! I've been around a few months and consider myself a noob still.  :)

The handles won't really ever wear down under home use. But honestly man, once you use them a bit, you won't care. The Comp is a pretty nice stick...

...but the P360 kicks it's azz.  ;D

Kremmit

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2004, 02:53:19 am »
so you have felt the p360's handle and it is the same texture as comps?

Does the comp's wear down after a while?

If I recall, the texture was pretty much the same, although I wasn't really paying attention to that at the time, and don't have a 360 here to check.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2004, 03:02:55 am by Kremmit »

paigeoliver

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2004, 04:53:58 am »
Which one is the one with the smooth glossy handle?
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Xiaou2

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2004, 05:34:58 am »

 Ultimates had the smooth handles. 

 I like  comps  for fighters... as they are the most accurate for diagnols.

 Supers - while good for circular type games...  is an awefull joy imop.
Very hard to move arround - like dragging thru thick mud.   Unlike the wicos - which are swift and effortlessly moved. 

 Supers  'Mirco-leaf' switches are poor quality, and prone to degradation, misalignment, and destruction. (they use poor quality, thin metal leaf.. which bends out of shape too easily.  Try to bend it back too far- and it will get screwed up internally so that it will not preform correctly anymore)

   There are some high quality mico-leaf switches out there with stronger thicker steel activator leafs... but happs dosnt sell/include them.

  Bats for classics kinda sucks as well.  The balltops are a much nicer feel.

Tritoch84

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2004, 08:28:34 am »
Well, all I know is Comps are what are liked if you ask any capcom fighter player. SNK'ers (KOF) like the supers for easy 360 motions, I myself like the comps.

And a "tighter" or "looser" joystick do not exist, it's about the spring they come with, and a joystick thats "broken in" will of course feel a little looser.

You can be really anal like my friend and get the P360 just because you hate hearing "click" when you move the stick!!!

(Check out the amazing "custom joystick thread" over at shoryuken.com, it's got alot of joystick reviews from people that put these things thru the ringer!)
Overly Strict Father: "Here son, YOU can finish up this Street Fighter game while I get the pizza"

Me(age 10) "REALLY? *Mashes buttons like crazy* OH AWESOME *has heartattack*

Matt Berry

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2004, 09:27:57 am »
I always replace the stock microswitches with a higher grade when I receive the Joystick or push button because they always seem to come with the cheaper ones anyways.
As for crazy climber it utilized dual 8-way joysticks. I'm also not completely defending the supers as there are a lot better joysticks out there, but out of happs lineup of 8-ways they seem to be one of the better choices. I still think they all (happ) have some issues when used with fighter games too, but thats just my opinion.

subzero23

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2004, 05:47:26 pm »
If I recall, the texture was pretty much the same, although I wasn't really paying attention to that at the time, and don't have a 360 here to check.
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Hiub1

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2004, 10:30:57 pm »
I could make a crude analogy between number of posts and something else, which I am not going to do. If you know your stuff, no one can tell you your are a "newb" here. Just because my little brother who is 10 has 1100 posts here does not mean that he knows too much about an arcade. So just leave it at that. The review was informative, thanks for taking your time to do so. I am really itching to order a set of heavy springs, but I ALWAYS forget when I am ordering stuff at Happs. Anyone know another source other than Bob, I really don't feel like mailing stuff.

Thanks, Fred.

NoOne=NBA=

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2004, 10:54:15 pm »
If you know your stuff, no one can tell you your are a "newb" here.

I can?
Lemme try that.

Paige,
You Newb!


Hmmm.....guess I can.
I'll have to remember that.

Hiub1

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Re: Mini review: Ultimate Vs. Competition
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2004, 05:28:44 pm »
 :laugh:

Paige, just remember, you are a strong person. It does not matter what the boys at school call you, you are your OWN special person.