Simplest of Keyboard Hacks

[allroy1975]

I'm making a Jukebox right now...I want to hack the keyboard to some buttons I have.

[DaemonCollector]

With a jukebox you won't have to worry about ghosting too much as you said, but you wtill will have to figure the matrix to an extent becasue the encoder will only have a certain number of connections on it, but I guess you could just wire up the first x ammount you need and use a ghostkey program to see what keys its hitting

[SirPeale]

Ghosting shouldn't be a concern at all for this type of application.  You'll still have to map the keys you want, but that's easy.  Get a multimeter and the mylar overlays, and start figuring what key goes with what finger.

[paigeoliver]

Also, find the oldest keyboard that you can. The older the keyboard the easier it is to hack. If the keys are clicky then you will probably have a really easy time of it.

[danny_galaga]

i have seen hacks of 'clicky' keyboards where the wires went straight to the buttons. so they didn't even need to figure out the matrix...

[paigeoliver]

i have seen hacks of 'clicky' keyboards where the wires went straight to the buttons. so they didn't even need to figure out the matrix...

Yep, that is what I do. The clicky ones tend to have a full length circuit board and you can go right to the letters you want with no fuss.

Or I do the OLD, OLD IBM keyboard that has the detachable cord. It basically has a freaking encoder inside it to begin with. You won't get to pick your letters all easy, but it is REAL easy to do.

[menace]

If you get your self a "keytronic" keyboard I have the matrix all mapped and even the circuit board mapped--who knows you might get lucky and find one.

[Tiger-Heli]

If you get your self a "keytronic" keyboard I have the matrix all mapped and even the circuit board mapped--who knows you might get lucky and find one.

Be careful with this approach as even the same model keyboard could have a different model encoder chip and thus a different matrix.

[JustMichael]

I'm making a Jukebox right now...I want to hack the keyboard to some buttons I have.  All the things on hacking a keyboard have to do with figuring out the matrix etc.....

A jukebox should never have more than 1 button pushed at a time, so is all that necessary?

The whole point of doing the matrix is to figure out which wires make which keys.  So which keys do you want to use?

Unless you find a really old keyboard with individual switches, you will need to do at least part of a matrix until you find all the keys you want to use.

[paigeoliver]

I'm making a Jukebox right now...I want to hack the keyboard to some buttons I have.  All the things on hacking a keyboard have to do with figuring out the matrix etc.....

A jukebox should never have more than 1 button pushed at a time, so is all that necessary?

The whole point of doing the matrix is to figure out which wires make which keys.  So which keys do you want to use?

Unless you find a really old keyboard with individual switches, you will need to do at least part of a matrix until you find all the keys you want to use.

The individual switch ones are so much friendlier and easier to deal with though, and when you are done you can mount the whole thing inside the cabinet and still have access to the unhacked keys.

I have done normal modern keyboards, big PCB individual switch ones, and OLD STYLE ones that are almost prehacked, and the big PCB indivdual switch ones are the easiest ones to deal with by far.

[menace]

Be careful with this approach as even the same model keyboard could have a different model encoder chip and thus a different matrix.

well that is true but only a newbie would make that mistake 

[paigeoliver]

Be careful with this approach as even the same model keyboard could have a different model encoder chip and thus a different matrix.

well that is true but only a newbie would make that mistake 

It IS mostly newbies that hack keyboards though. I stopped doing it ages ago, encoders are too cheap, save you tons of time, and are more rugged. Plus (if selling) some potential customers want to know what encoder is being used. I know last time I brought a mame cabinet to auction I had multiple people asking me what interface board I was using (it was an SJC).

[menace]

I'm confused paige..are you implying that I'm a newbie because i hacked a keyboard to make a one player 2 button layout 

If its for your personal use and you have the time and the know how--i see no reason not to go keyboard hack (although an encoder is only $20 these days)--if its for a 2 player capcom layout (or any other layout) that you are eventually selling, NEVER use a keyboard hack.

[whammoed]

I have the matrix worked out for about 10 different keyboards.  Let me know the manufacturer and model # on the pcb of the one you want to use and if I have it I will email it to you.

[paigeoliver]

I'm confused paige..are you implying that I'm a newbie because i hacked a keyboard to make a one player 2 button layout 

Keyboard hacks are most common amongst newbies, more experienced builders might use them as well, but newbies are more likely too.

[allroy1975]

I'm doing a KB hack because I have like 30 laying around my basement not being used.  Why spend $20 extra on the jukebox if I can just spend an hour or so and hack up a keyboard that's just collecting dust.

I have some compaq's.  Seems like it should be pretty simple.

Thanks for all the suggestions...or whatever this has all been. 

I guess the whole question was do I still need to worry about the Matrix and all that.  Sounds like I do.

Oh well.  I'll learn something!  w00t!

Allroy

[cbmeeks]

Little OT but I recently saw an old Dell keyboard on eBay (the clicky kind with a HUGE Dell printed on it) and the guy wanted $400 for it!!!  I kid you not.  And that was just for the keyboard!  He said it was a piece of vintage history and hard to find....lol

cb

[ChadTower]

I just saw an email on a list i belong to where a guy was offering a whole box of what he called "OLD computer keyboards".  I didn't read it thoroughly but he did specify than many of them are larger AT plug deals...

[Tiger-Heli]

I'm doing a KB hack because I have like 30 laying around my basement not being used.  Why spend $20 extra on the jukebox if I can just spend an hour or so and hack up a keyboard that's just collecting dust.

It actually is a good idea for this application.

I guess the whole question was do I still need to worry about the Matrix and all that.  Sounds like I do.

See http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html if you need more info.

Two ways to look at it.  You need to map out the matrix for the keys you want to use because a keyboard works by sending a keypress when you connect a column to a row.

You do not need to choose keys carefully, though, because you will not be pressing three keys at the same time.

[allroy1975]

I guess the whole question was do I still need to worry about the Matrix and all that.

[Tiger-Heli]

That is a LOT of words for hacking a keyboard....I was thinking "this seems really complicated....do I have to do all this?..the BYOAC guys should know." 

Sorry about that.  I try to cover all the "Why do I do this?" and "What is this for?" questions.

Maybe I need to come up with some sort of Bold Blue Font for stuff that's "You need to read this if you just want to get the job done and don't care about the background info. . . "   

[neuromancer]

That's actually what I'm working off of now, and what I was looking at when i decided to make the original post.

[fredster]

I blew up the bios on my computer with a keyboard hack. 

I'll try again with a "clicky" one.

[neuromancer]

I blew up the bios on my computer with a keyboard hack.

[Shifty]

Wire a terminal strip up to the keyboard matrix input, and just wire the buttons to the terminal strip. I did it, it's pretty easy, just takes about an hour to map the keyboard.

Paige, newbs may use the keyboard hack more extensively, but I find its quite easy to do, free, and those encoders cost extra to ship to Canada. I made the keyboard hack back when encoders were close to $100! Shipping to Canada, poor exchange rate, it was a no-brainer for me.

For those that don't know, this is a terminal strip. 

[Craig]

For those that don't know, this is a terminal strip. 

No it's a terminal block 

[spystyle]

The simplest of keyboard hacks is here :

http://dragonsden.emuunlim.com/ddkeytutl.htm

(not my tutorial)

It dosen't involve mapping out the matrix or any of that high tech jazz, I've made a few and they all work fine.

I use a radio shack project enclosure instead of a movie case, and I use "KeyHook.exe" to map out the buttons.

Keyboard hacks cost me $8 (and 3 hours) as I have all but the terminal blocks and project enclosure already in my basement, coming in 2nd place is the KeyWiz eco shipped for $26.50.

I would'nt use a keyboard hack like this for a game with more than 1 stick and 2 buttons (to avoid blocking) and I've read that the newer keyboards have built-in anti-ghosting measures.

It should work great for a jukebox

to avoid blowing your keyboard fuse with a potentially bridged "finger" , inspect your soldering job with a magnifying glass before use, or try it on a 486 first.

I love keyboard hacks!

Dig it?
Craig

[Tiger-Heli]

The simplest of keyboard hacks is here :
http://dragonsden.emuunlim.com/ddkeytutl.htm

Spystyle, great write-up (I'm assuming that's your website) and great job of making it look simple, but I would like to point out a few things.

It dosen't involve mapping out the matrix or any of that high tech jazz, I've made a few and they all work fine.

It most certainly DOES involve mapping out the matrix. To quote from your page:

Touch And Go
Now that you have what looks like a scribbled up movie case covered in spaghetti, it is time to figure out the matrix of you keyboard controller.
This is a very slow but rewarding process, you will only do it once so don't start to cry yet.

Now, there are three possible ways to map out the matrix -

1) Disassemble the keyboard and follow the traces wires on the flimsy (mylar) to the pins on the microcontroller.  (This can be tedious and prone to errors).

2)  A variation of the above - Use a multimeter on ohms scale (continuity tester) and check from each contact point on the flimsy (under the key) to each pin on the matrix.

3)  Your method - Solder wires to each pin, and touch together and see what key is generated.

I prefer method 2 for the following reasons:

Done with power off, so you have less chance of destroying your computer.

Does not permanently destroy the keyboard, so if it ends up not working (badly set-up matrix), you can reassemble it and yard sale it.

But mainly - Let's say I want to use 10 keys - 2 coin, 2 start, the joystick and 2 buttons.  If I really knew what I was doing, I just try each key that I need (so trace 20 contacts), see if I will have blocking issues, and solder less than 20 (some wires will be shared) wires to the keyboard.  This is regardless of the number of pins on the microcontroller.  Now let's look at your method.  (BTW, in some cases, the rows and columns are not split apart, so it becomes difficult to even attempt your method.)  Let's assume the keyboard uses an 18x9 matrix, which is pretty common.  I am going to solder 27 wires to the circuit card, then map out  162 possible combinations, 55 of which won't be used or will be duplicates.  Also some of these will be Ctrl, Alt, NumPad, Sleep, Wake, keys, etc.  While keyhook, Ghostkey, etc. will display these, they don't always distinguish L Alt from R Alt, or Numpad 5 from keyboard 5 (or you have to use 2 progams to do so), where with Method two, you know what button is being pressed so you know what is happening.

Keyboard hacks cost me $8 (and 3 hours) as I have all but the terminal blocks and project enclosure already in my basement, coming in 2nd place is the KeyWiz eco shipped for $26.50.

Well, there is now the Eco shipped for $26.50 or the Eco solderless shipped for about $29.50.  I'm not sure the $3 extra wouldn't end up being less than the wire and solder (and definitely time involved) with the base Eco.

But with a keyboard hack, you will be limited to about 20 action inputs (assuming two joysticks), the Eco has 32 plus 24 Shazaaam! inputs, the keyboard hack most likely won't use MAME defaults and won't be reprogrammable for other programs, etc. etc.

I would'nt use a keyboard hack like this for a game with more than 1 stick and 2 buttons (to avoid blocking) and I've read that the newer keyboards have built-in anti-ghosting measures.

Not necessarily.  Most keyboards use an 18x8 or 18x9 matrix (often with two rows dedicated to the Windows keys).  That means you should be able to get 16 non-ghosting/blocking inputs out of one.  Since the joysticks can't be up and down simultaneously, we allow them to ghost and pick up 4 more inputs (for a dual joystick panel) for a total of twenty, or enough for a SF style layout.  (But you have to map out the matrix to do this.).

It should work great for a jukebox

Something people tend to miss is ghosting/blocking only occurs when three or more keys are pressed simultaneously.  On a jukebox, you could use all 107 inputs if you wanted, as you will never press multiple keys at the same time.

[Chris]

Also some of these will be Ctrl, Alt, NumPad, Sleep, Wake, keys, etc.

[spystyle]

Hi there,

oops, that's not my tutorial, I've edited my post to state that.

About KeyHook.exe

I've never had any problems whatsoever with KeyHook.exe, it names everything just fine for me with the 6 keyboard hacks I've made (which work great, dispite their bad publicity)

The only thing with keyhook is it names the player 1 movement keys as "grey up, grey down, grey left, and grey right"

Not "up, down, left, and right" , I learned that lesson the hard way and had to re-wire a control panel, other than that it's been tip-top for me, never mis-naming the alt ,ctrl , or any other keys (maybe we were using different versions)

To save on solder points you can map the bare keyboard encoder board with keyhook BEFORE soldering (though it is tricky) then use a black marker to mark off any pins you won't be needing. For my last keyboard hack I only needed to solder 12 pins (instead of 26) which  conviniently fit on one terminal strip, making the total cost of that keyboard encoder $5 (as I have everything but the project enclosure and terminal strip in my basement)

and to bring the total cost down to $2 I could have used something else as a project enclosure, but I like the small black radio shack project enclosure, I drill holes in the top for   the wires to come out, and super glue the terminal block to the top.

It works like a charm on a 1 player 2 button cab

but it took me 3 hours to make - so only a "keyboard hack enthusiast" could justify the savings of $21.50.

That's only saving $7.16 per hour, and my job pays more than that...

As I said : I love keyboard hacks (I have issues)

Dig it?
Craig

[Tiger-Heli]

Hi there,
oops, that's not my tutorial, I've edited my post to state that.

Ooops, yeah right, yours is the one with the 300 pictures    (Very well written and useful though.)

About KeyHook.exe
 (maybe we were using different versions)

Quite likely, I last used it about 3 years ago.

and to bring the total cost down to $2 I could have used something else as a project enclosure, but I like the small black radio shack project enclosure, I drill holes in the top for   the wires to come out, and super glue the terminal block to the top.

Did you used to sell this or have a website about it years ago?  (I seem to remember pictures of this).

[spystyle]

I never sold them and haven't written a "picture book tutorial" on it *yet*

You're probably thinking of this one :

http://members.aol.com/tayjohn/Keyboard.html

Mine is based on that but I use 22 guage wire, and map the keys before soldering, resulting in less wires and sometimes only 1 terminal strip.

The whole hack is only about the size of a pack of cigarettes.

Keyboard hacks are sensless fun!
Craig

[Tiger-Heli]

I never sold them and haven't written a "picture book tutorial" on it *yet*
You're probably thinking of this one :
http://members.aol.com/tayjohn/Keyboard.html

That was it!!!

[Hoagie_one]

these are the times we need a 12 input encoder

[Tiger-Heli]

these are the times we need a 12 input encoder

Aw, just buy a KeyWiz Eco 2 and pretend it doesn't have an extra 20 inputs and shift functionality that you don't need.

[SirPeale]

these are the times we need a 12 input encoder

There's a guy on eBay that's been selling a sixteen input encoder.  No feedback, though he's sold a few.  Waiting for a BYOAC member to give a review.

[spystyle]

Here's some pics of my last keyboard hack

Note it is smaller than a dollar, has a "zip tie" at the beginning of the keyboard wire to prevent the board from being tugged, and the hole in the bottom of the case would accomodate a ground wire.

[Hoagie_one]

these are the times we need a 12 input encoder

There's a guy on eBay that's been selling a sixteen input encoder.

[SirPeale]

Not everyone hangs on these boards, unfortunately.  The uninformed take what they can get.

[Hoagie_one]

thats true.  sadly.