Pentium Pro 200 good choice for "golden age" Cab?

[HeadRusch]

I'm thinking about building a really small mini-cabinet or possibly a mini-coctail system using this spare PC I have.  I was thinking I'd keep the controls cheap and simple....I have a spare Pro200 and a spare 15" monitor that I was going to set up as a vertical system.  Trackball, some joysticks, and a few buttons.

In fact I'm cheaping out because I am also trying to build a more powerful cab, with an Athlon 1700 system and 512megs of ram for the more robust modern games (and regular PC games)........so this would be my "tinker project".  Get the smaller IPAC and maybe an optipac.......

I'm just curious if a Pentium Pro is enough to run the golden age games...kick, missile command, etc.....what about, say, Ikari Warriors?  I know, I know, I need to try them first.  I will, I was just looking for some ideas

I'd probably try to build the system small enough to act as an endtable for my recroom



Thanks!

[JustMichael]

The P200 should be enough with older versions of Mame.  It might not be enough with the later versions of Mame though.  YMMV

[HeadRusch]

Why, do the newer versions of mame somehow require more horsepower just to run?

ie: Mame .36 running digdug runs it faster than, say, mame32 .61 running digdug??

Confused....

I'm planning on running windows98, possibly running the Dos mame executable or booting directly to dos....I doubt I'll install Dos 7 or anything however....god i dont even think I have the software anymore...

[JustMichael]

I am talking about even older versions of Mame than that(like pre .35).  You may wish to try even earlier versions than that.  The new versions of Mame have lots more stuff video stuff (like artwork, backdrops, overlays, etc.).  All that new stuff takes up precious cpu time.

[Chris]

Plus more recent versions of MAME won't run in tweaked 256 color modes, in which those games look best... (I still don't understand why those modes were pulled!)

--Chris

[Sasquatch!]

My original cab had a Penitum I - 200MHz MMX, and it ran all of the "classics" just fine.  I can't remember which version of MAME was in there, but it would've been two years old or so...

[Tiger-Heli]

Why, do the newer versions of mame somehow require more horsepower just to run?

ie: Mame .36 running digdug runs it faster than, say, mame32 .61 running digdug??

Confused....

I'm planning on running windows98, possibly running the Dos mame executable or booting directly to dos....I doubt I'll install Dos 7 or anything however....god i dont even think I have the software anymore...

It's pushing it.  I have a Pentium (non-Pro) 200 MMX, I just fired up IKARI in MAME 0.61, 46-51% of fullspeed at Frameskip 11!  It's still playable, but it's really straining.

However, this is with a lot of the resources tied up with the Internet on.  With a clean boot (and an older MAME), I should hit 80-90 percent at Frameskip 10 with this machine, which is very playable.  Games like Frogger, Pac-Man, Galaga, BattleZone shouldn't have any problem.

For Vector games with artwork, go back to at least R36B12, which takes you back before alpha blending was implemented.

For other games, somewhere around R36Final - R37b5 should be good.

Yes MAME is slower these days, it isn't just the new artwork and backdrops and overlays, you can turn that off.  It's things like adding alpha blending to all the games, removing 8-bit video modes, and tweaking the video drivers to better support the newer and more challenging games.  With hardware prices dropping, I can't blame the MAME team for doing this, but with slower machines, you will see better performance with an older MAME.

BTW, I never saw a significant increase in DOS mame that would make me run it instead of running MAME under Windows.  (Prior to R37B15, it's all DOS mame anyway).  The command line version tends to outperform MAME32 on my machine YMMV.

[ErikRuud]

I agree with most of what TigerHeli says.

But I am running dos mame .58 on my 200mhz mmx machine, and it seems to run most of the old classics just fine.

Notable exceptions are vector games(as TH said), Wizard of Wor, Gorf, and a few others that I cannot think of right now.

I can also run many of the newer games that you would think were too slow.

[rampy]

You can also get creative with other stand alone emu's that may run faster than mame (especially on an old machine)

Like you might be able to run SFII,etc  using callus on that machine (i'm not sure, haven't done it... but just an example)  or run MGE for gauntlet... or sparcade or retrocade for faster version of vector and other games... There's another multi-emu out there that's dedicated for speed that begins with an "H" but I can't remember the name of it now... bah!

Dammit... now after seeing boba's bartop (1 and 2)and this thread i'm thinking hmmm... maybe I could shlop a mini-ubercade together (which would be handy when the 2 players are already filled on ubercade.

rampy

[Tiger-Heli]

There's another multi-emu out there that's dedicated for speed that begins with an "H" but I can't remember the name of it now... bah!

Hive, but it only runs in a little tiny box, last time I tried it.  

There's also NeoRage for the NeoGeo games.  I've only tried MAME and Retrocade (and Hive, obviously), but that is a good point.

[ErikRuud]

I do use Retrocade to run some of my games, especially for the vector games.

[neuromancer]

I'm thinking about building a really small mini-cabinet or possibly a mini-coctail system using this spare PC I have.  I was thinking I'd keep the controls cheap and simple....I have a spare Pro200 and a spare 15" monitor that I was going to set up as a vertical system.  Trackball, some joysticks, and a few buttons.

I'm just curious if a Pentium Pro is enough to run the golden age games...kick, missile command, etc.....what about, say, Ikari Warriors?  I know, I know, I need to try them first.  I will, I was just looking for some ideas

The best idea you can look into for  an old motherboard is Vantage. It is like MAME, but only for classic vertical games. It will even run on a 486. If you use Arcadeos as a frontend, you can switch emulators too, so you can use MAME for games that arent' in Vantage.

[HeadRusch]

Ahhhhh crud

I'm kind of at a crossroads right now.  I bought an Athlon to be my main MAME Cab's PC.  It was only about $400 bucks soup to nuts so I'm fine with that.

I still need a cab (hopefully I'll pick one up in the next couple of weeks) but I ran into a couple of annoying problems.  Problem #1, the spare 27" TV I have in the house...which would have required me to run Composite video as this TV has no svideo in, would simply not fit into any cab I'd be able to get through my door.

Finding cabinets with 19" Monitor sizes is alot easier, and a 19" Monitor is only about $140 bucks or so..(A PC Monitor that is)...so that would work, but itsnot the bigger screen I was hoping for.  A 25" TV with svideo in is about $200 bucks....still an option but again cabinet size is a problem.

A Coctail cab, however, that I'd take a stab at building myself.  A Couple of 4x8's of 1/2" MDF, some 2x2's for support.  I'd buy an inexpensive jigsaw and an inexpensive router (should such a beast exist) and teach myself to build  

But I dont have the space or know anyone with a table saw, so I'm SOL thinking about building a giant full sized game cabinet.  

If I spend a few more bucks and then decide to build the coctail I have to figure an IPAC, I've got one of those compUSA trackballs but I'd like a spinner and that would require an Optipac to do correctly..........so then factor in several hundred dollars in parts...

Ugh........

[rampy]

HEadRusch,

I believe there are ways around the problems you have...  no table saw, limited fundage, etc...

My advice is:

Decide what you;d really want in your cabinet.  What's most important... and try to do the best you can within that budget...   You could always "upgrade" different parts later... but if you build a cocktail and you really wanted an upright... or vice versa...

I'd guess (but could be wrong) that if you can build a cocktail cabinet you could build a upright...  I bet if you went to a real builders supply place (not home depot) and had a template  for a couple of extra bucks or so wouold/could make the big main cuts on the large sheets of MDF (or melamine, ply, or whatever)

Whatever you decide I'm sure you'll end up with something you enjoy and cherish...

I kept my costs down by using a free cabinet, buying cheaper controls off ebay, doing a sidewinder hack (eh... it works...), using  the "roll down PC" ...  I had to buy the monitor (21" SVGA for 100 beans on Ebay...)and all the knickknack hardware and misc tools, wires and crimpers etc...

Another possible route depending on your budget is to get a dead board, but working monitor cabinet for as cheap as you can get... then get a JPAC.  (of course there are pluses and minuses to this approach but it might fit your needs if you can find the right cab at the right price)

good luck!

Rampy

PS I hope that makes sense, and didnt' come off as total ramblings =)

[HeadRusch]

Yeah, I'm kinda all over the board here

I just realized the spare monitor I have doesn't actually show pure red......the red ghost in pacman was all black...........just eyes rolling around the screen  It also would need a good degaussing...it went funky when it went on its side....

On the upside, with Mame32 with everything set to auto, StarCastles, Pacman, and several other games I tried ran fine.  On the other hand, Millipede, Centipede, a few other ones simply refused to run.  The roms would load, I'd hit "OK' since it was first time on that install, and pop....right back to Mame32.  Dunno.  I've got 96 megs of ram in the box so thats not it, could be the VERY old 2 meg VESA board I have in there.  I should probably replace that with something with more video ram.  I can probably get a cheap 16 meg videocard with a PCI bus for like $10 bucks so thats even worth trying out.

Is mame dependent on Video Ram at all, or just system ram?



I think I know what I'm going to do.  I think I am going to find myself a cab, first and foremost.  Measure my door first off, THEN find a cab.  I have the PC ready to go, first I find a cab, then prep the cab, then on from there.

In the meantime, I'm going to build myself a mini-mame system.  I'll work with my cheapie monitor for now and then when the time comes I'll replace it with a 14" job, something cheap.  In the meantime I'll order myself an IPAC (basic one) and some basic controls, and I'll PRACTICE.  Build myself some sort of mini-mame machine, perhaps a desktop type of thing...mount the motherboard flat on the bottom, etc.   That will be my practice for building the larger cab.  Less woodworking to deal with, less size, keep it small and simple..and ultimately cheaper.

Hmmm....I could use one of the spare PC speakers I have if I can figure out how to connect the two bare wires to one of those single mini-din jacks.    This way I can drive one speaker off the soundcard I have in there.....

I can keep tinkering without rushing the cab, and subsequently screwing it all up.

Deep Breaths...slow...down....

[Tiger-Heli]

On the other hand, Millipede, Centipede, a few other ones simply refused to run.  The roms would load, I'd hit "OK' since it was first time on that install, and pop....right back to Mame32.  Dunno.  I've got 96 megs of ram in the box so thats not it, could be the VERY old 2 meg VESA board I have in there.  I should probably replace that with something with more video ram.  I can probably get a cheap 16 meg videocard with a PCI bus for like $10 bucks so thats even worth trying out.

Is mame dependent on Video Ram at all, or just system ram?

No, at least not for Centipede and Millipede, if you were having problems with Metal Slug, of SF or MK, but I run those with a 4M PCI, so its not that.

Try opening a DOS window, (command prompt).

Type the following (with appropriate directories)

cd\
cd mame32
mame32 centipede

Look at what the screen message says.  My guess is that your ROMS are not the right ones for the current version, or (less likely), you're selecting a resolution that your monitor can't handle.  If you don't get a rom error message, try specifying a resolution (easiest to do from inside MAME32).

Hope this helps.

[HeadRusch]

I decided to bag the problem entirely.

The Pro-200 system is getting a 1 gig HD, the videocard and just about everything but the LAN card is coming out, and its gonna be a printserver for my laserprinter so my wife don't have to touch my PC to print

Oh how themighty have fallen...I still have the $2400.00 receipt for that machine from "back in the day"...today, it was either turn it into a printserver, or turn it into compost.

MINI MAME will now be powered by an AMD 1.3Ghz Athlon system that I've managed to cobble together for less than $140 bucks, if you count the RAM and HD I already have available.

Hmmm..now i'll need better controls.  
Yep yep..time to get some OT in...got expensive habit here..yep...

[Lilwolf]

If you have the machine run it and find out.

the older the mame version the better probably.  You might want to download a ton of them, and run them one after another until you get something that works great and has good games.

also look at Vintage, Hive, Retrocade, REM! (rygar only emulator), MGE (multi guantlet emulator), Sparcade ect...  They will ALL do much better then mame

you might be able to get some like Raine, NeoRage/X, and a few other newer ones might make it also, but I never tried them on anything slower then a 450celery.

But if you have the hardware, try it.  It shouldn't take that long to setup and go...

[HeadRusch]

Too late: Ppro is now a print-server.

Athlon 1.3Ghz becomes Mini-Mame.

I'm going to prototype my design this weekend using cardboard, to get an idea of how to optimize..