Critique of control panel requested

[teef two]

The project is progressing well. I'm now at the stage of control panel building. I've discarded the modular and swappable panel approach for this first attempt. I'll do it on the second I build myself. For a conversion and a first effort I feel more comfortable putting it all on one panel.

I've tried very hard not to create a frankenpanel but it will doubtless have those elements about it. I realise that the trackball is a little close to the player 2 joystick but I really am restricted to a width of 54cm (I've also tested it out and am just about comfortable with it.) I also don't want the panel poking out too far. Current dimensions are 54cm wide, 32 cm deep. The panel will be mounted at a slight angle.

For the parts details there are 2 Ultimarc T-sticks, an Oscar Vortex spinner with Tempest knob and an Ultimarc 2 and a half inch trackball.

[teef two]

and here is a pic of the Monitor in place. A Hantarex 21 inch Polo/3 for which I have had to build a monitor shelf.

[Shape D.]

I think it may be a difficult to lay the P1 and P2 buttons at the angle there at.

[teef two]

I think it may be a difficult to lay the P1 and P2 buttons at the angle there at.

I have tried it and it does seem comfortable although I am also toying with the idea of this layout for the buttons.

[TOK]

This is a tough one for me, because many of the two player simultaneous games I like use more than 3 buttons. Also, two people might be pretty cramped side-by-side on that one. You could save yourself some space by not using the mounting plate for the ball, but that requires more careful cutting. I think if I was doing a layout in such tight space, I'd just do a one player panel. The downside to not having two sticks on the panel would be no Robotron, Rescue, Total Carnage or Black Widow! I think I'd make sure I'd build a bigger panel just for that reason.

[Matt Berry]

I think the second one would be a little better layout for extended play. You may want to add one more button below those three to form a diamond pattern. Only other concearn would be can you comfortably reach the spinner without accidently hitting any of the other controls? Are you using the yellow buttons as fire buttons for the spinner and trackball. Have you put any thought into service buttons, esc, enter ?

[subzero23]

the p1/p2 buttons are still outta wack there, try straightening them a bit more

[teef two]

Nice idea with the diamond pattern. I went with three buttons because I can't remember for the life of me ever playing an arcade game that needed more than three buttons (excluding defender).

I'm going to keep it two player for the reason that it'll be so much more fun to play twin cobra with a mate.

The yellow buttons will be admin buttons. I made add one button each either side of the trackball for mouse buttons and getting more admin buttons bia the shift key feature of the I-Pac.

Access to the spinner is fine without hitting other controls for a right handed person (and frankly I'm right handed, I love tempest and if you're a lefty - tough titties! ). I was going to use player ones' fire buttons with the spinner. Again I tested the feel of this and it's okay for me.

[teef two]

the p1/p2 buttons are still outta wack there, try straightening them a bit more

  - This is a mock up in cardboard (very easy to work with, simpler than drilling mdf and plexi - just pop in your thumb and voila, instant button hole) and I didn't bother overmuch about precise positioning or having the men the right way up. When I print the final template out from Visio the measurements will be millimetre perfect.

Nice to get feedback - keep it coming.

[RayB]

That blue joystick will be in the way of any right-handed trackball player...

The 3 yellow buttons are redundant.

[shmokes]

Good call RayB.  That would be a disaster.  Move those joysticks up.

[Gunstar Hero]

I think your overlay sucks. And the start button is upside down... huh?

...cardboard mock up you say? Oh yeah, I knew that...

Ummm... lose the "mouse" buttons over the trackball, move the sticks up, and I prefer a square 4 button pattern, but that's a personal preference.

Man, is there an echo in here?

[paigeoliver]

The trackball should always be as close to the edge of the panel as possible to give you the largest possible "follow through" area, that way you aren't whacking your hand on the glass so much when you play Capcom Bowling.

Also, what ARE the dimensions of that panel? If you are custom building it seems to have a lot of unneeded depth, when what it really needs is width.

[teef two]

Current dimensions are 54cm wide, 32 cm deep. Restricted on width by the existing cabinet dimensions and construction. I agree wholehartedly on the need for width but that can't happen this time.

Were I building from scratch I'd certainly have a wider control panel or, alternatively, build in such a way as to make having swappable panels a breeze.

I like the idea of moving the trackball down towards the front and the joysticks up. I'll try this out tonight and see what it looks like.

I might move the three admin buttons (yellow ones) to be on the front section of the control panel box to free up some more space on the main panel. Shouldn't be any chance of accidently hitting these if they are on the front of the box as the panel itself will slightly overhang.

Any thoughts on adding left and right mouse buttons next to the trackball?

[darktemp]

The size you listed isn't too bad unless you try fitting a 6 button layout in there.  I think you have made good choices on what should be included in the panel such as the 2.25" trackball, it just needs to be layed out a little different.  I made a quick mockup of how I would make a panel that size.

[Minwah]

My thoughts (most of which has already been said):

Remove the yellow buttons, and the black ones next to the start buttons (if these are for credits/no coin door how about mount them in the front of your cab?).

Do something with the player buttons, that angle is too extreme!

Darktemps idea looks good to me.

Lastly, have you considered swappable panels?  54cm wide isn't too bad - my control panel is only 60cm wide, but I chose not to try and fit a trackball onto the same panel as my 2 joysticks.  I have a 2-player stick/button panel, and another panel with 49-way joy, trackball and spinner.  Also, swappable panels allow for future-proofing...

[Matt Berry]

When I first saw your CP I wasn't sure if you had the room to make it like darktemp's drawing. You should try it out, because 99% of the time after fiddling around with layouts, you'll end up with something very close to that layout. The only difference being you may be more comfortable with a different button layout. So experiment a bit, and have fun with it. I've built a few Cp's and on my new one I've made a lot of prototypes, but all of them ended up being a variation of what darktemp drew out.

[teef two]

Darktemp -  a big thank you for taking the time to do that drawing. It's made me re-think a little.

Minwah - I did consider swappable but I've given my reasons for not doing so this time round further up the thread. This will not be the last machine I do (shhh, don't tell the wife!) and thats something I want to try next time.

Anyway, I've looked at darktemps idea and I've come up with this (I may well not go with six buttons per player but I put them on there anyway to see what people think)

[darktemp]

Wow nice job.  I think the 6 button layout looks great if you're sure you can squeeze it all in.

[Jabba]

Yep...Definately much better. I noticed you moved the spinner up to the center. Good job.

Quick question for the thread: In earlier renditions of the CP, spinner was to the right of the TB. Now it is above the TB. Does a spinner play better above the trackball or to the right side of the trackball from your experience (assuming there was space for either congfiguration)...?

[darktemp]

The center is more ambidextrous friendly.  Also don't most people use their left hand with the spinner and right hand for buttons?  If so the right side would make it harder to use.

[Witchboard]

Don't forget to leave enough room under the CP for your button nuts.  Also, I think your admin buttons are going to hit your trackball housing under the panel.

[neuromancer]

Don't forget to leave enough room under the CP for your button nuts.  Also, I think your admin buttons are going to hit your trackball housing under the panel.

I think a bigger issue is my gut would hit the admin buttons durring game play!! They're not necessary for MAME, either.

Bob

[Lord Hiryu]

Hi teeftoo.
I suggest yoy to use not more than 4 buttons by player (snk layout)
If you observe my panel, I use of small buttons for the administration options, is better, saves much space in the CPO.
My panel only measures 56cm of wide and 33 of bottom, a little more than your panel.I think is not a Frankenpanel

However, the 4 way stick and the virtual insert coin button,you can save them to put on the CPO.
You can use a small button down the panle for insert coin, or maybe, inside the coin door, you can put a switch
And....don't forget to put on the sides the pinball buttons.
A greeting.

[shmokes]

HOLY COW!!!  I almost went blind when I saw that panel  

[Matt Berry]

Pretty amazing panel you have there Lord Hiryu. What are the two buttons below the 2-player joystick for? Do you have any problems with the second player hitting them? Did you print out your own artwork or did you have it printed by someone else? Interesting idea of using small buttons for admin keys, Doh why didn't I ever think of that - After all these years you'd think I'd have learned something!

[Witchboard]

That's a pretty cool panel.  Nice and psychedelic.  I actually didn't even see the two blue buttons under P2's joy. LOL  I do like the arrows pointing to the buttons on the front and sides of the CP though.

[paigeoliver]

That panel does look nice. Although I wonder why you chose 3 buttons for the 4-way. Back when I researched it I found no 4-way games with 3 buttons at all. Although there was one with 4 buttons (Mouse Trap).

[shmokes]

Double as trackball buttons, perhaps???