hanaho/Happ (please read, interesting turn of events)

[SirPoonga]

Wow, this is interesting.   Time to start rumors:)  A happ Distributor that supplies Hanaho showed up in chat tonight.  I was the only one active at the time.  We had a long chat about what hanaho is doing to make their products cheaper, what new products are on the horizon.  I'm thinking Hanaho/Happ is starting to REALLY take notice of the home users if they actually talk to use in chat and on this board.  Maybe they will conform more ot users needs.  If they really want to improve their product, maybe we should setup a forum/thread on where q&a can be answered between Us (the byoac community) and hanaho/happ.

I have a copy of the IRC log that I sent to saint and planetjay.  Since I was the only one there he was getting only my opinions, but I also mentioned what others have said (from the replies of that other thread I started).''Here's some highlights:

[02:54] <xxx> Are you guys bying your parts from the Happ Controls Home Page?
[02:56] <SirPoonga> no, happ is expensive
[02:56] <xxx> ...but Happ has the best parts.
[02:57] <xxx> I am an authorized Happ Controls Distributor
[02:57] <SirPoonga> I get my stuff from ebay
[02:58] <xxx> What if I can get these parts for you at a reasonable price?
(We talked about how I get my stuff from ebay because it is cheap, and he argued new is better, I replied that some people will only buy new)

[03:11] <xxx> My company supplies all the parts to HanaHo for the Hotrod and their other products.

(We were talking about the hotrod)
[03:11] <xxx> What features does it lack?
[03:12] <SirPoonga> Well, according to press releases hanaho is fixing that.  But the HotRodSE (only available product right now, unless something changed recently and I missed it) only has joysticks and buttons
...
Not  trackball, no spinner.
[03:13] <xxx> Yes, they will have a HotRod with a trackball and HanaHo and myself are working on the spinner.
[03:14] <xxx> The problem with the spinner is to get the cost down.
[03:14] <xxx> Have you ever played the original Arkanoid?
[03:14] <SirPoonga> YES!!!
[03:15] <SirPoonga> It;s at a local bar:)
[03:15] <xxx> I worked for Taito Corp for 12 years.  I am working with them now to make something similar.
[03:17] <xxx> The Arkanoid Controller is the best spinner ever mad but it costs a pretty penny.

That would be awesome to have an actual arkanoid spinner on the hotrod.  Ahhh, now I think of it, i should have suggested that they make a control panel kit.  That way controls would be customizable, like using different happ joys instead of whatever comes with the hotrod.  Maybe they could talk to kelsey and andy too:)  I think they could make a fairly cheap cp using the product we use anyway!  Hey, if hanaho could bulk order ipacs it would be cheaper then.  the ipac can be used in different OSs and has a config tool for each along with the inline config...  Actually, hanaho could probably make a deal with andy and actually produce the ipac in the states making it cheaper for the states and canada!!!

There was more to the conversation than that, but I just showed the highlights.  Maybe soon Act-Labs will chime in again...  however, I am afraid of too much commercial exposure could be bad for mame.  A solution to that is having easily (and cheap) available of legal games.  I talked ot xxx about that too, he just replied hanaho is working on it.

I know HC thinks hanaho is a four letter word, but if they start talking to their market group more they might produce what people want that's cool!

[Tiger-Heli]

Hey SirPoonga, don't know if I was supposed to reply here, or not, but . . .

I have a copy of the IRC log that I sent to saint and planetjay.  Since I was the only one there he was getting only my opinions, but I also mentioned what others have said (from the replies of that other thread I started).''Here's some highlights:

What other thread you started?

[02:54] <xxx> Are you guys bying your parts from the Happ Controls Home Page?
[02:58] <xxx> What if I can get these parts for you at a reasonable price?
(We talked about how I get my stuff from ebay because it is cheap, and he argued new is better, I replied that some people will only buy new)

For new stuff, I prefer to deal with www.therealbobroberts.com.  In fact, I would probably buy from Bob even if he charged MORE than Happ.  I just like the guy's style.  (Don't tell HIM I said I'd pay more than Happ).

(We were talking about the hotrod)
[03:11] <xxx> What features does it lack?
[03:12] <SirPoonga> Well, according to press releases hanaho is fixing that.  But the HotRodSE (only available product right now, unless something changed recently and I missed it) only has joysticks and buttons
...
Not  trackball, no spinner.

Also, it is not programmable on the fly like the I-PAC, no custom button layouts, no support for secondary panels for rotary joysticks and Trigger-Fire Joysticks (although the support for secondary panels could be added).

[[03:17] <xxx> The Arkanoid Controller is the best spinner ever mad but it costs a pretty penny.

That would be awesome to have an actual arkanoid spinner on the hotrod.  

I thought Happ already sold the Arkanoid joystick here: http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/95093100.htm (and for only $127.40).  From what I've read the original Arkanoid spinner was great for Arkanoid, but had too much friction for really fast games like Tempest.  I don't know that I'd get overly excited about this.  I think I would stick with OSCAR and his HotRod spinner hack.

Just my 2 cents.  I agree it's interesting that Happ even talks to us on the chat boards, though.

[SirPoonga]

Hey SirPoonga, don't know if I was supposed to reply here, or not, but . . .
What other thread you started?

The one about hanaho's new products.

For new stuff, I prefer to deal with www.therealbobroberts.com.  In fact, I would probably buy from Bob even if he charged MORE than Happ.  I just like the guy's style.  (Don't tell HIM I said I'd pay more than Happ).

True, that's part of competition.  I'm hinting that happ/hanaho really want to listen to customers now, aparrently, so they might become better to customers.

Also, it is not programmable on the fly like the I-PAC, no custom button layouts, no support for secondary panels for rotary joysticks and Trigger-Fire Joysticks (although the support for secondary panels could be added).

Right, like I said, a Q&A session with happ/hanaho would be nice, they can ask their market questions, we can ask questions back.

I thought Happ already sold the Arkanoid joystick here: http://www.happcontrols.com/joysticks/95093100.htm (and for only $127.40).  From what I've read the original Arkanoid spinner was great for Arkanoid, but had too much friction for really fast games like Tempest.  I don't know that I'd get overly excited about this.  I think I would stick with OSCAR and his HotRod spinner hack.

That't what kelsey said too when he read this.  First off, that spinner on happ's site is not an OEM arkanoid spinner.
Second, one suggestion I'd make to hanaho is to make a control panel kit like arcadewerk.  Customers build it.  See, the beauty of that is you can have it bundled with whatever controls you wanted.

Plus, people here wold get an arkanoid spinner.  Hey, they put dedicated 4way joys on their control panels.

[Tiger-Heli]

The one about hanaho's new products.

Oh yeah, the $600 cabinet one, now I remember  

True, that's part of competition.  I'm hinting that happ/hanaho really want to listen to customers now, aparrently, so they might become better to customers.

One can hope . . .

First off, that spinner on happ's site is not an OEM arkanoid spinner.  Plus, people here wold get an arkanoid spinner.  Hey, they put dedicated 4way joys on their control panels.

Ok, that's true.  I remember seeing the real Arkanoid spinner that people had bought off E-bay (Huge encoder wheel, looked like 3-4 inch diameter) and they said the same thing (not good for Tempest).  I don't see many people on this board buying Arkanoid spinners from E-bay to use with their OSCAR spinner.  If I had to rank it, I would say:

Genuine stuff that I see bought off E-bay for use in arcade panels (in order of use):

1 - Genuine Trackball
2 - Genuine SW yoke
3 - Genuine SNK rotary joysticks
4 - Genuine Arcade Steering wheel control
5 - Genuine PacMan Stick
6 - Perfect 360 sticks
7 - Genuine Tron Stick
8 - Genuine T2 Guns
9 - Genuine DOT Spinner
10 - Genuine Light Guns/ Handguns
11 - 720 Degrees Joysticks
12 - Sinistar 49-way joysticks
13 - Genuine Arkanoid Spinner
14 - Frontline controllers

I might have left some stuff off, but the spinner is 13th out of 14 and the Frontline controller would probably outrank it too if they weren't so hard to find.

Second, one suggestion I'd make to hanaho is to make a control panel kit like arcadewerk.  Customers build it.  See, the beauty of that is you can have it bundled with whatever controls you wanted.

I would think that would sell (It would save me a lot of work, and I'd be interested), but I haven't seen many companies interested in offering it.

X-arcade will sell you the controls without the panel for $100.00, Slikstik will sell you the panels without the controls for $134.00, but it's pre-drilled, with negates the main reason for going this way.  OzStick would have sold me one, but the shipping to the states made it not cost effective.

A company called ZipStick used to sell a 1-player enclosure for $40.00 and a two player for $60 (?), but they're not around anymore.

[SirPoonga]

I would think that would sell (It would save me a lot of work, and I'd be interested), but I haven't seen many companies interested in offering it.

X-arcade will sell you the controls without the panel for $100.00, Slikstik will sell you the panels without the controls for $134.00, but it's pre-drilled, with negates the main reason for going this way.  OzStick would have sold me one, but the shipping to the states made it not cost effective.

A company called ZipStick used to sell a 1-player enclosure for $40.00 and a two player for $60 (?), but they're not around anymore.

Actually, I mean customizable like dell computers.  You go to their website, they'd have maybe a few templates for the control panel, you get everything, even controls.

[Howard_Casto]

I agree with tiger on his comments.  The reason I don't like happ is because they sometimes treat us hobby guys like third class citizens, not to mention the insaine price.  

The reason I don't like hanho is because their stuff is hardcoded (or commercialized as it were).  The only way I would buy a hanho cp is if it had an ipac in it or sported all of the features of the ipac.  I also think that overlays without the big "hotrod" and in different colors would be nice.  I know they are trying to get free advertisement but I hate any product that has such extreme branding.  I more modest logo would be acceptable.  Btw this is also a peeve I have with x arcade.  

If they could design a truely modular kit which inputs for analog and digital inputs then they would have a good produt, otherwise they are probably wasting their time.  


But with all that being said... HanHo is VERY high profile these days and if they over promote this product it could be harmful to the mame community.  

I have nothing against hanho, I just don't have anything nice to say about them.  Unfortunately they are commercial and once you cross that line you can never produce really good niche products for your customers as you are no longer part of the niche. At least they are trying to make the effort.  But then again I remember a hanho guy sending me a thing asking me questions a few months back.  I gave them some very good advice about features and their target market but they seem to be going in the opposite direction, so they must have not taken the surveys too seriously.  Either that or they've heard of me.   Andy and Oscar do this on the side and this is why their products are so much more popular.  

[Lilwolf]

1st, arkanoid spinners suck... have no weight on them.  Good for arkanoid, but I like something with some spin.  Tempest are what I'm looking for...

but even at this... if they wanted, they could create a spinner that you could take the counterweight on and off pretty easy.  This would be great!

[AndyWarne]

This is an interesting thread for several reasons. The first is that the dialog from the "Happ distributor that supplies Hanaho" really doesnt make any sense for all kinds of reasons. I would be surprised if Hanaho bought from Happ. Also Taito withdrew from the international market years ago so the comments about working with Taito don't add up.
One of the important factors that people involved with emulation overlook is that the coin-op trade HATE us. Frank Happ has been a major player in the coin-op business for years, originally starting here in the UK and moving to the US. He is not going to ditch his credibility in the industry by openly supplying to emulation users.
Nor does he need to, from our perspective. Happ are resellers of other peoples products, mainly Industrias Lorenzo of Spain. Mass-market builders would buy from I-L direct. Also many assemblers such as X-Arcade buy from Taiwan. The one advantage of Happ is that they have a large range of specialized controls such as rotary joysticks, they are a one-stop-shop. This is why some commercial builders use them, they are not too worried about price. They also have some commercial products such as their USB controller which they commissioned specially from design houses, again without regard to price. So they have an important part to play in the coin-op world and that is where they will probably continue to concentrate their efforts.