Anyone know if its possible to BYO positional guns?

[LordDamo]

The subject line pritty much says my question. Searched the forum & googled my but off, and found lots of talk about them (T2 & Op Wolf type guns). Wondering if anyone knows if they could be manufactured at home?

As far as I can gather, they use standard 5k pots. Would have to find a cool metal replica or toy gun, and try to work in some sort of duel shock device too I guess.

If anyone knows how these can be made, or parts that might help me work out my own design, it would be most helpful.
Thanks in advance . . .

[Trimoor]

You could start by ripping the x/y bearing mechanism from an analog PC joystick.
Mount it on it's side, reinforce it, and stick a gun on top.

I had this idea once, but I never got around to making it.

[LordDamo]

You could start by ripping the x/y bearing mechanism from an analog PC joystick.
Mount it on it's side, reinforce it, and stick a gun on top.

I had this idea once, but I never got around to making it.

Hmmm . . .   That might work.  Main kind of one im wanting to make is one like in Operation wolf. From what I remember, you could twist the gun to the left and right and the rectile would move as you turned, thats why I thought it was a rotational type joystick (please excuse my ignorance), and posted in the thread about it.

Dunno, im gonna do some more searching and pondering on this.

Anyone got any Ideas?

[Silver]

Well seeing as real T2 positional guns can be interfaced with a simple dual strike hack (see 1-up and his Pac-Mamea)  - assuming op wolf was the same type - they basically are just guns mounted on analogue joystick (with 5K pots in the case of T2). So a calibrated analogue pc joystick should work...

Not quite sure what you mean about "twisting" the op wolf gun...Could you describe some more?

[LordDamo]

Well seeing as real T2 positional guns can be interfaced with a simple dual strike hack (see 1-up and his Pac-Mamea)  - assuming op wolf was the same type - they basically are just guns mounted on analogue joystick (with 5K pots in the case of T2). So a calibrated analogue pc joystick should work...

Not quite sure what you mean about "twisting" the op wolf gun...Could you describe some more?

I guess that twisting isn't quite the right word - more turning. Point the gun left and the rectile goes left, ect...

[Minwah]

I think the mechanics would be fairly easy to replicated, but making the gun itself (or finding a suitable toy gun) would be the challenge.

[LordDamo]

I think the mechanics would be fairly easy to replicated, but making the gun itself (or finding a suitable toy gun) would be the challenge.

Thinking of using a metal replica of a gun for this - a cheap toy gun just wouldn't do. I'd probally break it from rough play! For the turing motion, I was thinking of doing some kind of mouse hack and have it suspended from the bottom of the gun (shaft coming out the bottom of the handle), into a box. This hack would have to be free-floating and able to move with the gun.

For the forward and back movement, turn the main shaft into a two-axis joystick.

Also. the shaft would have to limited in just how far it can turn . . .

As you can tell, im still im the "thinking out loud" stage. Im just looking for some input, some help with developing the idea.

Does anyone think the above might work/ be possible???

[Silver]

Hmmm I have a feeling that a mouse hack wouldn't cut it for positional guns - as they need to be able to send information about there x/y location. Spinners/mice/wheels etc haev no idea how far they have moved - they only send relative info from a starting point.

Some form of pot-based interface would be needed.

Turning the gun is no problem - just make it turn a pot at the same time.

[LordDamo]

Hmmm I have a feeling that a mouse hack wouldn't cut it for positional guns - as they need to be able to send information about there x/y location. Spinners/mice/wheels etc haev no idea how far they have moved - they only send relative info from a starting point.

Some form of pot-based interface would be needed.

Turning the gun is no problem - just make it turn a pot at the same time.

Ahh, ok - I get you, make's sence. Main reason I was thinking this was because im trying to work out a way to interface this with the PC.

I got to thinking of this after reading this http://www.trimoor.com/rotary_joystick/index.htm
that I found in the thread about rotary joysticks. Thought it might be possible to modify the design for this kind of purpose.

What kind of interface would be used to connect the pots? I have three laying around that are left over from a high school project (though I finished in 1994, so they have been idle for quite some time).

[Tiger-Heli]

What kind of interface would be used to connect the pots? I have three laying around that are left over from a high school project (though I finished in 1994, so they have been idle for quite some time).

Ok first you need to do some reading - See 1Up's write-up on T2 guns -

http://1uparcade.robandmitsue.com/projects-t2guns.html

And 1Up's write-up on hacking a dual strike:

http://1uparcade.robandmitsue.com/projects-dualstrike.html

And Menace's write up on making a Star Wars yoke:

http://www.arcadecontrols.com/hosted/yoke/

Basically, your project is the physical look of a T2 Gun, with the mechanical interface of a SW yoke (if that makes sense).

For interfacing the pots, you have basically four options (arcade hardware used 5K pots, PC's used 100K typically):

1)  Hack a dual strike, ala 1-UP.

2)  DaveB's AKI - http://dave.bit2000.com/products.html

3)  Hack a gameport or USB joystick, using the pots it came with.

4)  Directly connect 100K pots to the gameport, ala http://www.gunpowder.freeserve.co.uk/wheels/wiring.htm

[LordDamo]

Thanks for that Tiger-Heli, I did read the post on this - but the pics were'nt in it    Dunno why. Also, couldn't find the link to this write up on the sidewinder. I did see the one about the T2 guns on 1Up's site though.

Thanks again for your help, will put what happens after I start this project.

(Ever since I came to this board, ive been without two things, 1) Lack of something to do on the weekend 2) Money for anything but electrical components!)

[Tiger-Heli]

Thanks for that Tiger-Heli, I did read the post on this - but the pics were'nt in it    Dunno why. Also, couldn't find the link to this write up on the sidewinder. I did see the one about the T2 guns on 1Up's site though.

Thanks again for your help, will put what happens after I start this project.

(Ever since I came to this board, ive been without two things, 1) Lack of something to do on the weekend 2) Money for anything but electrical components!)

Oh, one more thing, I think either 1-Up or SirPoonga came up with a circuit to drive the solenoid for the feedback mechanism for the guns, but I think it takes a MAME driver hack in addition to make this work.

Be sure to document your project.  You might even be able to sell them.

My personal thoughts.  Actually building the gun mechanism (correct shape, correct pivot points and motion and friction) will be the difficult part.  Interfacing to the PC should be fairly simple.  I am looking at a desktop controller, so mounting the gun so it is repeatably the proper distance from the screen could be difficult (without making holes in the desk).  Mounting it to an arcade cab would be easier, but it might be a problem to make the gun CP compatible dimension-wise with the Street Fighter CP, etc.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

[LordDamo]

Oh, one more thing, I think either 1-Up or SirPoonga came up with a circuit to drive the solenoid for the feedback mechanism for the guns, but I think it takes a MAME driver hack in addition to make this work.

Be sure to document your project.  You might even be able to sell them.

My personal thoughts.  Actually building the gun mechanism (correct shape, correct pivot points and motion and friction) will be the difficult part.  Interfacing to the PC should be fairly simple.  I am looking at a desktop controller, so mounting the gun so it is repeatably the proper distance from the screen could be difficult (without making holes in the desk).  Mounting it to an arcade cab would be easier, but it might be a problem to make the gun CP compatible dimension-wise with the Street Fighter CP, etc.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

No worrys, this board is an inspirational place! Give and yea shall receive I always say.

As for the difficulty of getting the correct shape, correct pivot points and motion and friction, Im always trying to push new boundarys in most things I do. So, im gonna start this from scratch. Would be hard to do the same as the origonal without working (or semi-working) examples of these guns. I havn't seen them in arcades for years. In my city, there is no arcade, hasn't been for years, but ones opening in a few month's time . . .

[LordDamo]

4)  Directly connect 100K pots to the gameport, ala http://www.gunpowder.freeserve.co.uk/wheels/wiring.htm

Oh, forgot to ask, does this still work ok with MAME? using the 100k pots I mean.

Oh, one more thing, I think either 1-Up or SirPoonga came up with a circuit to drive the solenoid for the feedback mechanism for the guns, but I think it takes a MAME driver hack in addition to make this work.

Cool, i'll have a search for this, Thanks again

[Tiger-Heli]

Would be hard to do the same as the origonal without working (or semi-working) examples of these guns. I havn't seen them in arcades for years.

There's always Flea-bay!

[LordDamo]

Would be hard to do the same as the origonal without working (or semi-working) examples of these guns. I havn't seen them in arcades for years.

There's always Flea-bay!

True, too true. Had a look tonight actually. But, as im an Australian, they dont come up too regularly. And postage on these would be a killer from the US/UK - they would way a ton (postage wise), imagine the pair! Then tack on international rates and you got a no-go.
I'll still look whenever im online though  

[Tiger-Heli]

Would be hard to do the same as the origonal without working (or semi-working) examples of these guns. I havn't seen them in arcades for years.

There's always Flea-bay!

True, too true. Had a look tonight actually. But, as im an Australian, they dont come up too regularly. And postage on these would be a killer from the US/UK - they would way a ton (postage wise), imagine the pair! Then tack on international rates and you got a no-go.
I'll still look whenever im online though  

I think there's an Aussie equivalent of it as well, but if the guns themselves weren't available in Ozland, that won't help you much.

[LordDamo]

Would be hard to do the same as the origonal without working (or semi-working) examples of these guns. I havn't seen them in arcades for years.

There's always Flea-bay!

True, too true. Had a look tonight actually. But, as im an Australian, they dont come up too regularly. And postage on these would be a killer from the US/UK - they would way a ton (postage wise), imagine the pair! Then tack on international rates and you got a no-go.
I'll still look whenever im online though  

I think there's an Aussie equivalent of it as well, but if the guns themselves weren't available in Ozland, that won't help you much.

Yeah, there is an Australian Ebay, I got my first lot of buttons from a seller on there today  

The guns were avaliable here, as in they were in arcades here - but no one want to part with them, must be as rare as hens teeth. I saw them on there once - but it was towards the tail end of the auction, and didnt have the cash at the time  

So, i've been toying with the idea of how to male my own ever since.

Do you recall the thread containing either 1-Up or SirPoonga where they came up with a circuit to drive the solenoid for the feedback mechanism?

[Tiger-Heli]

Do you recall the thread containing either 1-Up or SirPoonga where they came up with a circuit to drive the solenoid for the feedback mechanism?

It actually was 1Up, but I think Poonga was doing something similar with a Q-bert knocker . . .  (and it was a long time ago).

I dug up my reference info on this and it's real similar to what I just posted :-)), but the link below doesn't work.  You might try E-mailing 1-Up or Googling for it:

***

What about machine guns?

This is not a major concern of mine, but I did a quick search of the archives of the BYOAC message board.  This is where a solution is most likely to appear if someone figures this out.  Actually, these can be interfaced.  The machine guns (Operation Wolf, Operation Thunderbolt, T2, etc.) are actually just an analog joystick, so the same type of conversion that you would do for the original Star Wars yoke should work for these also.  In fact, the newer guns (T2) use a solenoid to produce a recoil effect and this can be hooked up also although it requires a 24 V transformer to hook up.  Unfortunately, the T2 guns also would fire slower as the gun heated up or ran low on ammo and I don't think this is implemented in MAME (yet!!!)

The following data was provided by 1-Up:  Dave Widel did a hack on the driver for T2 so it sends the recoil signal to the caps lock LED, which can be used to control the recoil in the actual gun with a little electronics hacking.  I've done this myself, and I'll post the circuit I used when my site is updated (very soon!!)  Meanwhile, you can get the driver HERE (http://www.1uparcade.com/misc/wmsyunit.c - doesn't work) (right click the link and select "save file as" to get it).  You'll need to replace the one in the Mame source and recompile Mame to get it to work.

The main problem I see with this is these guns were designed to be mounted at a fixed height and a fixed distance from the screen and to have a fixed amount of travel.  I think you could play with the settings on an arcade cab and get something reasonably close, but it might be hard to get one calibrated correctly so that you could sight down the gun and shoot accurately when you are taking the gun on and off the desktop.

***

[Gunstar Hero]

I bought the guns that 1UP hacked and was selling on the Buy/Sell/Trade Board (lucky me!) and should have them tomorrow.

I'll be making a setup for my arcade cab in the next couple weeks (Yeah right. Well, with any luck. Stupid right-around-the-corner holidays. ) and I will be WAY happy to offer any help I possibly can.

I'll probably have to ask at least 600 questions as well.  

[LordDamo]

I bought the guns that 1UP hacked and was selling on the Buy/Sell/Trade Board (lucky me!) and should have them tomorrow.

I'll be making a setup for my arcade cab in the next couple weeks (Yeah right. Well, with any luck. Stupid right-around-the-corner holidays. ) and I will be WAY happy to offer any help I possibly can.

I'll probably have to ask at least 600 questions as well.  

Cool, congrats on the buy. I was a little late in finding this thread in the buy/sell/trade section. Found it when he only had one item left.

If you ask 1UP 600 questions, mind if I ask you 800? Im trying to build one from scratch, so i'll have (at least) 200 more. LOL. Anyway, thanks for your input. I'll get back to you shortly . . .