Curious about Japanese controls

[Gradius]

I'd like to know this: the ball-top sticks mounted in Naomi cabinets are Sanwa sticks? Are these the famous top-notch-performance Japanese sticks? I like the soft touch of the microswitches in these, but the throw keeps on being too long for me? Are the Seimitsu sticks better in this sense (shorter throw)?

I've heard some stories about Japanese sticks and their ultraprecission, but any of these brands or models can compare to the throw of my Ultimarc's Tstick? I love this one, and although its throw is very short and the stick feels good and precise, it's not like a surgical ultraprecisse and sensitive piece of machinery. It rather feels like strong and sturdy, a stick to play great and to last long. What I don't like is that after some years of use, the central position of the stick is not absolutely firm, as if the spring was not stiff enough to keep the stick perfectly on the centre. It doesn't affect the usability of the stick, but...

For my next CP, I may go again with Tstiks, but if I could find Japanese sticks that feel more precise, I'd choose them. I don't mind if they are weaker since I don't usually abuse of my controls. I would need a stick with round movement (no corners), very little throw, soft spring and switches, and quick return to centre. The problem is, where can I test any of these sticks, if not at the arcades? I'm from Spain so...

With pushbuttons, I have a similar feeling. I have tested the traditional microswitched buttons (which I have in my CPs) and they feel great, authentic. However, Japanese stick seem to be better in terms of performance: quicker to activate, silent, etc. I have them in my Namco Arcade sticks and I think they're the same as those in Naomi cabinets. I've heard they don't last long as they are much weaker than microswitched buttons, but I've been using my Namco stick for years and not problems yet.

[paigeoliver]

I think the japanese sticks mounted in my Super Neo 29 are the cheapest looking and feeling sticks I have ever used. More like a toy than a proper joystick.

But the japanese sticks I have ordered from groovygamegear.com were quite heavy duty.

[DYNAGOD]

i have to second that...
having just refit my cab with Seimitsu LV(S?)-30's and a full compliment of sanwa buttons, i have to say they reek of inferior quality and craftsmanship..
very poorly made, very sloppy feel and very unresposnsive..
i would not recomend them..
HOWEVER....what feels like garbage to me may be a dream come true for you.
go to himura amusement. do a google search youll find em..
place an order on the forums.. its very unorthodox as there is no formal "store" on the website, and it may not happen overnight, but you will find those obscure japanese parts you need..
i got my parts thru them.

[Gradius]

OK, I'll take your advice and I'll be aware before ordering japanese sticks. Thanx. What I'm also curious about is, if these sticks are not precisse, how on earth are Japanese players the best with shmups and are able to get such incredible scores?

[CthulhuLuke]

DYNAGOD ordered the Seimitsu's which I've played on and they're not that bad, but sanwa joysticks really are top quality.  Some people have problems with sanwa buttons because they don't have a big spring like the happs buttons, they use the spring in the microswitch *I think?* to recoil your button presses.  It takes a little bit to get used to them as they are INCREDIBLY light to the press, and that's partially why the shmups guys love them.  The light spring and quick response time allows you to press the button 500 times without feeling like your fingers are going to die.  I have heard that the Jstiks (is that what you meant, or do you have the t-stiks?) are sanwas with octagonal bases, but if you compare the pictures they really don't look the same.  Jstiks have seperate microswiches you need to connect to, as where real sanwa joysticks have a joystick harness.

[DYNAGOD]

its really a  matter of opinion as is evident by CthulhuLuke's post.
your never really going to know for yourself till you buy some ,install them and do some damage ingame.. and their dirt cheap so its not a big loss if u dont like em..
i find the throw in the seeimitsu to be too far in trying to reach the corners.U<D<L<R  all are close and tight, but the corners seem to take twice the throw. its a flaw of the restrictor design.
not to mention they are loud as all hell. my seimitsus are leafswitch style,  and in a plastic and sheetmetal control panel they resonate a loud, unappealing, tinny thin feel and sound.
as far as sanwa buttons,
my primary dislikes are this..
spring...there is almost no resistance in the button. if it were a happ competition you would throw it out because you would assume it was worn out.. secondly is the lack of a conventional microswitch as we westerners know them.there is no noise or click whatsoever when the buttin is depessed. i find this lack of feedback unappealing. theres nothing liiek popping a cherry in a happ.

ultimately its gong to be a matter of personal taste and playstyle.. sadly there isnt anywhere for you to go and "testdrive" some japanese controls. when youget the cash, buy 1 stick and some buttons, and give it a run.. if it disagrees with ya, at least you will not have invested too much.

[CthulhuLuke]

its really a  matter of opinion as is evident by CthulhuLuke's post.
your never really going to know for yourself till you buy some ,install them and do some damage ingame.. and their dirt cheap so its not a big loss if u dont like em..
i find the throw in the seeimitsu to be too far in trying to reach the corners.U<D<L<R  all are close and tight, but the corners seem to take twice the throw. its a flaw of the restrictor design.

oh yeah, I forgot to mention about the restrictor plates, a lot of people like the square feeling of the sanwa, but himura games also sells the octagonal restrictor plates - http://www.himuragames.com/images/gty_01.jpg  so they will feel more like the happs competition joysticks.

[DYNAGOD]

hmmm, i see an upgrade in my future...

[Gradius]

All these japanese ball-top sticks have square motion (Sanwas, Seimitsus...) My Namco Arcade Stick has square. I've heard the Dreamcast Arcade Stick has round motion...

[spiffyshoes]

Sanwa sticks are actually really nice.  The octagonal restrictors don't make them round like a happ joystick.  It just makes it have a corner in all 8 directions instead of 4.  That way you can really feel which direction your pressing.  It makes it easy for doing dragon punches and stuff because you can really feel when you hit the diagonals.  If you want your stick to be silent get the optical p360 sanwa.  It is super quite and responsive.  It also comes with the wire harness and octagonal restrictor.  Oh, and the octagonal restrictors only work on the sanwa JLF model joystick so you couldn't put it on a J-Stick.

[Gunstar Hero]

The Dreamcast arcade stick is supposed to use the exact same stuff as a VF4 cab from what I've always heard, and it has a very square feel to it. Great for VF, not so hot for SFA3.

[Grasshopper]

I've got some Sanwas and some Seimitsus. I disagree that they're badly made but I do agree that they feel sloppy. The Sanwas feel significantly crisper that the Seimitsus but the Sanwa springs are still too weak for my taste.

DYNAGOD, before throwing out your Seimitsus I suggest you replace the microswitches with light action cherries. I've done this with mine and it made a big difference. They still feel sloppy (perhaps even lighter than before) but they're much less noisy and a bit smoother.

[Dave_K.]

I don't know about that himura amusement website.  The "game chair" stools they sell are exactly the same ones I bought just this weekend at Ikea...for $5.99 (they have them for $10).  I wonder if theirs come with Danish instructions too.  

[Minwah]

I love J-Stiks.  You can flip over the restrictor to lessen the throw (slightly), and stretch the spring to harden up the feel (slightly).  I've done these to one of my sticks so far - it actually makes a surprising amount of difference, a fair improvement IMO.