Konami 4P Cabs: Is Monitor Shelf Reinforcement Necessary?

[Thread Killer]

I'm using a generic Konami 4-player cabinet (the one used for Simpsons, TMNT, etc) for my MAME project, and plan to put a 20" Panasonic TV into the cab.

The cabinet was designed for a 25" monitor, and has a shelf for it inside. I'm assuming that this shelf was the only thing supporting the original monitor, and even though it is in good shape, I fear that the 55-lb. TV will cause it to collapse at some point.

For anyone who is familiar with these type of cabinets, are my concerns unwarranted, or should I definitely be seeking some way of reinforcing the shelf?

[paigeoliver]

The original 25" or 27" monitor weighs more than any 20" TV. I know, I carried one of those monitors up the steps today.

Get a 25" TV instead, so it fills the monitor cavity. A 4-player cab with a 20" monitor is gonna look silly.

[Thread Killer]

I was looking around for several months, but couldn't find any 25" TVs that had component video input. The screens of all the 27" sets that I found probably would've been cut off at the top due to their height, and there was barely any room to create a lower monitor shelf.

The 20 incher just fits, so I doubt that I could've used anything larger w/o removing the case.

[paigeoliver]

Dude, just REMOVE THE CASE. If your looking at a 20" monitor in a giant 4 player cabinet the LAST THING you are noticing is the small quality difference between s-video and component.

Call your local operators and see if you can scrounge a frame for a 25" or 27" monitor. Heck, see if you can scrounge a 25" or 27" monitor.

If so, then buy a TV set to match the size of the frame you bought. Open your set. A new modern set will have the picture tube, a tiny neckboad and a very small PCB board.

Read up on monitor safety. But if you buy a brand new set and don't power it up first then it isn't going to have a charge anyway.

Tube gets installed in the arcade monitor frame, as long as you buy a traditional curved tube set then the tube will bolt right in.

The chassis gets installed as well. Use PCB feet (radioshack) to install the monitor PCB.

BOOM, looking good now, or as good as you can look with a TV.

I have that cab, it dwarfs my other 15 games. It dwarfs my cab with the 29" monitor, it makes my big jumbo 1970s games look small. It even makes my star wars cockpit look small. Don't waste that cab with a tiny monitor.

If you CAN'T scrounge a frame then you can mount the tube on plywood (many japanese games came this way anyway). Use 3/4" plywood. Cut a piece the size of the entire monitor cavity, and then trace the bezel on it to figure out the exact cut out needed. I have done this, it isn't hard.

[Thread Killer]

I wouldn't mind forking out the dough to buy an arcade monitor, but it's the safety concerns that are the issue. I assume that the anode would be exposed on an open-case TV as well, so I'd rather avoid that.

Hopefully one day a company will release an arcade monitor that closes off the high-voltage areas, so that uncoordinated people like me can safely handle one. Until then, the 20" TV seems like an OK stopgap measure.

[paigeoliver]

It isn't nearly as dangerous as you think it is. People stress the dangers because it is theoretically possible to recieve a lethal charge from the picture tube of a TV that isn't plugged in. Note the word "theoretically"? I don't know of any cases of this actually happening, ever.

I took the full high voltage from a RUNNING vector monitor a few weeks ago. I didn't even get a headache afterwards.

All modern monitors have auto discharge circuits. These circuits USUALLY work. Most monitors I discharge do so silently because they have nothing to discharge in the first place. The only reason you even discharge is because the auto discharge circuits might be bad.

Secondly, the anode cap doesn't just fall off, it would be bad news if it did, but it would be the exact same bad news that would happen if the anode cap fell off a tv set that was inside the case. It would still be a freaking lightining bolt and the monitor would be ruined and probably anything hooked up to it.

Matter of fact not only does the anode cap not just fall off, it is usually quite a ---smurfette--- to get off in the first place, especially if you don't know the right motion to use.

So as far as the anode cap goes you pretty much have to make a DECISION to rip that sucker off and stick your hand in there. It doesn't happen on accident. My incident was with a vector monitor, which is a completely different beast (on a Vectorbeam monitor there is a spring which goes across the back of the tube, this is ground for the tube. I had one with that unhooked, and powered on, managed to touch both the back of the tube AND the frame at the same time, so the tube (which wasn't powering up because it had no ground) was able to briefly power up by going to ground through my body. Until I yelled monkey klaw and jumped back.

Frankly you are more likely to mess up your AC wiring and cause a fire than you are to get hurt by a monitor when you have read about monitor safety. I basically all comes down to two things.

Don't rip the anode cap off and stick your finger inside.

Know HOW to discharge, and WHEN you should do so. (You only discharge if you have to remove the anode cap).

[pcates]

I know that this is a little off subject, but...... How big is a 25" or 27" TV with the case removed?
I have a 2 player super off road that originally had a 19" monitor, and I was thinking about trying to stuff a 25" in there, but when I measure outside the case it is not even close. And I don't want to take the case off a perfectly good tv if it is not going to fit anyway.
Thanks, Patrick

[paigeoliver]

A 25" tube will fit in MOST cabinets. The problem often isn't going to be width, it is going to be depth or height. Few games are narrower than 23.5" and a 25" tube isn't that wide.

Classic examples of the fact that most cabinets will take a 25" tube.

The old rare 25" Galaxians.

Many Defender protos had 25" monitors in the same cabinet that Defender ended up shipping in.

Star Wars cockpit had a 25" monitor and that game is the exact same width as the upright.

Dedicated Neo Geo units were usually 25", but they came in classic style cabinets that were 24" wide.

I don't know the exact width of a 25" tube off hand, but I know from personal experience that a 25" tube will fitthe width in a standard cab and a 27" one wont.

[pcates]

A 25" tube will fit in MOST cabinets. The problem often isn't going to be width, it is going to be depth or height. Few games are narrower than 23.5" and a 25" tube isn't that wide.

Classic examples of the fact that most cabinets will take a 25" tube.

The old rare 25" Galaxians.

Many Defender protos had 25" monitors in the same cabinet that Defender ended up shipping in.

Star Wars cockpit had a 25" monitor and that game is the exact same width as the upright.

Dedicated Neo Geo units were usually 25", but they came in classic style cabinets that were 24" wide.

I don't know the exact width of a 25" tube off hand, but I know from personal experience that a 25" tube will fitthe width in a standard cab and a 27" one wont.

Thanks... That is what I am not sure about. The off road I have is not standard.  I think the width will be fine even if I leave the case on. The monitor is mounted at a downward angleand the height is going to be tight. Depth might be ok, because I can always leve the back off. So.... if anyone has an open 25"tv and can measure the height, I would be greatful.
Thanks, Patrick

[paigeoliver]

You can measure height without taking the case off. Measure the height of the visible tube and add one inch (in many cases you don't even need to add the inch as a lot of monitors have their full height as visible tube, but some overlap the bezel up to a half inch, so add an inch to be safe).

[pcates]

Thanks, I did not know how much overlap there was
Patrick

[Minwah]

It isn't nearly as dangerous as you think it is.

I second that.  The monitor will always be enclosed in your cab, so the only time you need to worry is when moving the monitor from it's box (or wherever you found it) to your cabinet.  Just take care, take your time and don't touch anything you don't need to...

[Thread Killer]

Know HOW to discharge, and WHEN you should do so. (You only discharge if you have to remove the anode cap).

Would I need to discharge prior to bringing it to a shop for repair, or only if I were to attempt to fix it on my own? Are there any other cases in which I would have to discharge it?

Your posts convinced me to take a look at some of the monitors, and I have a couple of questions about this one: Wells-Gardner K7400 25" Monitor

1) Would it need a separate mounting frame to mount inside the Konami cab, or would it screw right into the (what I presume are) mounting holes behind the slats of wood that the bezel rests against?

2) Even though the WG website lists it as a CGA monitor that can display 640x200 max, would it still be able to display a Windows desktop and play some PC games (Golden Tee Golf, MK4, NFL Blitz) via the ArcadeVGA card? Or am I better off going with the D9200?

And regarding all monitors in general---assuming that the anode is capped and the monitor is turned off, are there any parts on the back of the monitor that would zap you under normal conditions?

[AmericanDemon]

You would require the WG9200 or Betson Imperial to display the PC games properly.  

[paigeoliver]

No need to discharge when bringing it in for repair. The repairman will do that. You do not need to discharge a monitor to move it from one location to another. The GOLDEN question is "do I have to remove the anode cap?" If you don't have to remove the anode cap, then you don't have to discharge.

1. A real monitor will already come in a frame. A 25" model will mount to the pre-existing mounting holes on your shelf.

2. Arcadevga does exactly that. Avoid D9200, the D9200 is a lot like a Ferarri, looks so cool, so much cool stuff, and breaks down every three weeks. It is pretty much the most unreliable monitor on the market today.

No, on a regular monitor it is the TUBE that has a charge, the only exit spot for the tubes charge is the anode cap. Well, technically you COULD get the charge out via some really idiot ways such as cutting the wire to the anode cap, sticking it in your mouth and then touching the frame.

[Thread Killer]

The only mounting holes that I see are a couple along each side of the cabinet's innards. Each hole is roughly 0.25" deep.

Is that how the monitor is supported in your Konami cab?

[paigeoliver]

Not those holes. mine bolts down to the shelf.

Even if you have no holes, your new monitor will have holes in the bottom of the frame, use those holes to mount the monitor to the shelf.

It will be massively obvious once you get a look at your new monitor.

[Thread Killer]

Not those holes. mine bolts down to the shelf.

Even if you have no holes, your new monitor will have holes in the bottom of the frame, use those holes to mount the monitor to the shelf.

It will be massively obvious once you get a look at your new monitor.

There are a pair of holes on each side of the shelf, although they are relatively small. Those are what you're referring to, right?

[krick]

I know that this is a little off subject, but...... How big is a 25" or 27" TV with the case removed?

Just for reference...

A 25 inch arcade monitor with frame is about 23.0 inches wide.
A 27 inch arcade monitor with frame is about 24.5 inches wide.
A 33 inch arcade monitor with frame is about 28.5 inches wide.

My cabinet is exactly 24 inches wide inside, which is kind of narrow compared to most modern cabinets that I've seen, so the largest monitor I can fit is a 25" unit.

I suppose that with some creative dremel work, I *might* be able to squeeze in a 27 inch unit but there wouldn't be enough space on the sides for the bezel and it would probably look bad.

[paigeoliver]

Not those holes. mine bolts down to the shelf.

Even if you have no holes, your new monitor will have holes in the bottom of the frame, use those holes to mount the monitor to the shelf.

It will be massively obvious once you get a look at your new monitor.

There are a pair of holes on each side of the shelf, although they are relatively small. Those are what you're referring to, right?

You aren't going to have any mounting questions at all after you actually see your new monitor. It will be a no brainer, trust me on this one. Monitor goes on the shelf, and gets bolted down. It might fit the old holes it might not, but either way it will be one of the simplest parts of your project.

[Gunstar Hero]

If given the option "to reinforce, or not to reinforce" you should always reinforce.

I mean, this is gonna be a stationary object anyways, so weight isn't an issue, and if that monitor shelf collapses, it's not only gonna kill the monitor itself, but anything under it, and that would be no good.

[Thread Killer]

After doing some research, the K7400 wouldn't work out for my cab. From what I can gather, there is no way to mount a universal-mount monitor onto a shelf. Perhaps I could mount the top brackets of the K7400 to the speaker area overhang, but it doesn't look like it would be thick enough to support it.

The shelf-mount monitors that I've found are 19" max, so the TV isn't looking like as bad of an option anymore.

[paigeoliver]

After doing some research, the K7400 wouldn't work out for my cab. From what I can gather, there is no way to mount a universal-mount monitor onto a shelf. Perhaps I could mount the top brackets of the K7400 to the speaker area overhang, but it doesn't look like it would be thick enough to support it.

The shelf-mount monitors that I've found are 19" max, so the TV isn't looking like as bad of an option anymore.

I have owned and worked with around 110 different arcade monitors and I have never encountered one that couldn't be mounted easily on a shelf, other than a couple of japanese ones that didn't have frames at all.

[muell67]

Avoid D9200, the D9200 is a lot like a Ferarri, looks so cool, so much cool

its obvious you dont like the d9200, but what would be a good choice the betson imperial or maybe the vision pro 27" from happ?

[paigeoliver]

I don't really have an alternate suggestion, I have been reading this board long enough to know that the 9200 breaks down, A LOT. I never hear about any other model of brand new monitor breaking down, but there is a story on a non-working 9200 on every page of the monitor boards.

[Thread Killer]

After doing some research, the K7400 wouldn't work out for my cab. From what I can gather, there is no way to mount a universal-mount monitor onto a shelf. Perhaps I could mount the top brackets of the K7400 to the speaker area overhang, but it doesn't look like it would be thick enough to support it.

The shelf-mount monitors that I've found are 19" max, so the TV isn't looking like as bad of an option anymore.

I have owned and worked with around 110 different arcade monitors and I have never encountered one that couldn't be mounted easily on a shelf, other than a couple of japanese ones that didn't have frames at all.

Can this be done without a hack job of the original monitor frame, or is a huge overhaul needed for the universal->horizontal conversion?

[paigeoliver]

At the most you will still be sitting the monitor on the shelf, but you will also be adding 2x4's to the side of the cab (or whatever size you need) to run the actual mounting bolts into. The shelf will still be taking the brunt of the weight. Anyway, it will almost certainly have a place to put mounting bolts through the bottom as well.

Like I said, I have never really encountered much trouble in trying to mount an arcade monitor.

[Thread Killer]

Were those 25" monitors in the neighborhood of 70-80 lbs? I might go with a 24" TV that is approximately 73 lbs, and I'm wondering how the shelf will be able to support that, considering that I can barely lift the 80-lb. Philips TV in my room.

[paigeoliver]

You are worrying for nothing, all that stuff is overbuilt, I weigh close to 250 and I can stand on the monitor shelf in most cabinets.