Cheap encoder for only 8 inputs?

[Witchboard]

Not sure if I want to throw the cash out for something that can support 20+ when I only need 8.  I think I'm going to build my brother a bartop with a 4-way and two buttons.  It will be running DOS 7.1 so it will have to be PS/2.  Any suggestions?

[brained]

Keyboard hack !!

[SirPeale]

Keyboard hack.  Hands down.

[Trenchbroom]

Or the good 'ol gameport Sidewinder control pad hack.  Should be easy to find one Sidewinder in a thrift store or used computer shop.  Lot less messy then a keyboard hack.

[Witchboard]

I've never done a keyboard hack.  Any docs on how to do such a thing?  I'll keep an eye out for some gameport sidewinders also.  I guess I would have to get DOS drivers for those.

[Hiub]

A keyboard hack is much more of a headache than you should go through for 8 inputs. Get a sidewinder, and you will not go wrong. There are points in the pcb ready to solder to and they are even labeled!! Can't get much easier than that! Search around, there are many tutorials on how to do so as well.

Enjoy, Fred.

[SirPeale]

He'll need to dig up game port drivers if he doesn't have them already; the keyboard hack doesn't need them.

Keyboard hack, esp for eight inputs, wouldn't be hard at all.  A lot of people  map the entire keyboard, and that's not necessary.

I take the mylar piece and seperate them.  Then take a multimeter (one with continuity testing is  best) and place the lead on which key I want to use.  Then the other lead on the "finger" that connects to the PCB.  In this way I can  map out very quickly just those keys I want to use.  

On my last one it was very easy, since it was all based on a matrix.  I chose one "finger" to use as a "ground" and selected the other inputs based on what worked with that input.  Since my keyboard matrix was based on a 7x16 I based it on the keyboard arrows + a few for buttons, and then another "ground" finger for the coin inputs (since 5 & 6 shared that finger).

I'm making it sound kind of complicated, but it's really easy.

[whammoed]

I have a keyboard hack i never used for sale on ebay.  Don't expect it to go for much so it could save you some time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6126757950&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Or if you decide to hack your own, let me know.  I have the maps for 9 different keyboards...I may have the one you will be doing.

[MonitorGuru]

The problem with hacking a keyboard like Peale describes it is that you are using non standard keys and must therefore remap everything in Mame.  Also, you no longer have stanard mappings for menu programs, e.g. a menu program such as ArcadeOS that assumes cursor key movements for the joystick and p1/p2 start buttons on #1 and #2.

Yes, Peale's method IS the easiest keyboard hack, but be aware of the mapping changes.


For only 8 inputs, I too would go with keyboard hack, or if using windows, I'd hack a Gravis USB gamepad (10 inputs)  But be aware you will need another method of selecting games if your front end doesnt allow you to remap keys to do different functions.

[SirPeale]

Well, you can just use the Mame defaults, but you'll have to map more keys.

[GadgetGeek]

I take the mylar piece and seperate them.  Then take a multimeter (one with continuity testing is  best) and place the lead on which key I want to use.  Then the other lead on the "finger" that connects to the PCB.  In this way I can  map out very quickly just those keys I want to use.  

I used this method and it only took me about 15 minutes to determine which *fingers* I needed. IIRC, I did about 15 keys worth.  I mapped the mame default keys so no remapping was necessary.  Another 10 minutes or so to cut a bunch of wires, probably 15 minutes to label each wire (for future reference) and 15 minutes to do the soldering.  So roughly an hour of my time.  What is an hour of your time worth?  If it is worth a lot, then spring for the commercial encoder.

[JoyMonkey]

If you're only going to be using a 4-way joystick and two fire buttons, you shouldn't have to worry about key ghosting, so you can hack a keyboard to use the default Mame keys without hassle. I've hacked a couple of these old Dell keyboards - they're very easy to wire, as each key uses an individual switch right behind the key so there's no need to map connections.
I've never tried hacking a Sidewinder, but it sounds like it might be the easiest option.

[Chris]

I have a keyboard hack i never used for sale on ebay.  Don't expect it to go for much so it could save you some time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6126757950&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Or if you decide to hack your own, let me know.  I have the maps for 9 different keyboards...I may have the one you will be doing.

Hey, Whammoed, that is really nice clean work on that keyboard hack!

[Witchboard]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I'll go out to the garage and see what junker keyboards I have to tear a part.  Whammoed, I'll get with you on the keyboard that I find and maybe you have the map.  I agree with Chris that your keyboard hack is really nice.  I'll keep an eye on it and if I become too frustrated I may have to snag yours off eBay.    I appreciate all the help.

[SteveJ34]

I have a keyboard hack i never used for sale on ebay.  Don't expect it to go for much so it could save you some time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6126757950&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Or if you decide to hack your own, let me know.  I have the maps for 9 different keyboards...I may have the one you will be doing.

Did you create the keyboard wire map yourself and if yes, would you consider posting a link to it?

I'm working on a couple of bartops for xmas presents and was planning to go the keyboard hack route in place of buying a commercial encoder.

From the looks of the pic in the auction, it appears you have already created a nice map of the default keys in mame.

I look forward to your reply.

[Bgnome]

if you dont have the exact same keyboard/chipset then anyone elses keymap is completely useless to you.  as mentioned before, you will most likely have to reassign the mame keys in order to maximize the usability of it.  for example, i have a keybaord encoder mapped out and have found that it only allows for 8 simultaneous inputs.  the chances of the 8 default keys you want to use in mame falling under independent rows (or columns) of the matrix are pretty low.  this is also a good time to point out that you only need 2 simultaneous inputs for joysticks..

[whammoed]

I have a keyboard hack i never used for sale on ebay.  Don't expect it to go for much so it could save you some time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6126757950&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
Or if you decide to hack your own, let me know.  I have the maps for 9 different keyboards...I may have the one you will be doing.

Did you create the keyboard wire map yourself and if yes, would you consider posting a link to it?

I'm working on a couple of bartops for xmas presents and was planning to go the keyboard hack route in place of buying a commercial encoder.

From the looks of the pic in the auction, it appears you have already created a nice map of the default keys in mame.

I look forward to your reply.

I created the map myself and don't mind sharing.  Unfortunately it is in a report format that when exported to anything I could post looks kinda crappy.  I could scan it and create a jpg for you.  As I have said I have 9 maps, look on the keyboard pcb you are using and tell me the manufacturer and model and I will see if I have it.  The map is different for (almost) every different model number of keyboard out there.

[SteveJ34]

What package was used to create it?

[SteveJ34]

if you dont have the exact same keyboard/chipset then anyone elses keymap is completely useless to you.  as mentioned before, you will most likely have to reassign the mame keys in order to maximize the usability of it.  for example, i have a keybaord encoder mapped out and have found that it only allows for 8 simultaneous inputs.  the chances of the 8 default keys you want to use in mame falling under independent rows (or columns) of the matrix are pretty low.  this is also a good time to point out that you only need 2 simultaneous inputs for joysticks..

I understand that every board is different unless same mfr/model.

He has a basic keyboard layout without all the default keys in Mame defined on it and I thought that would be a nice starting point when I sit down to make my own hacks.

[whammoed]

What package was used to create it?

Its an Access database.  I exported one of the reports as a snapshot for you.  You should be able to view it if you have the office suite:

just rename it rmap.snp

[SteveJ34]

What package was used to create it?

Its an Access database.  I exported one of the reports as a snapshot for you.  You should be able to view it if you have the office suite:

just rename it rmap.snp

Worked like a champ.

Thanks.

[paigeoliver]

My "Galaga" mame was done by hacking some off brand Pc-arcade stick. It was really easy as all the controls on it were already microswitch based.

[Witchboard]

I'm working on a couple of bartops for xmas presents and was planning to go the keyboard hack route in place of buying a commercial encoder.

Exactly my thoughts.  

Its an Access database.  I exported one of the reports as a snapshot for you.  You should be able to view it if you have the office suite:

Why is it I can never download any attatchments?  I always get an error.

My "Galaga" mame was done by hacking some off brand Pc-arcade stick. It was really easy as all the controls on it were already microswitch based.

I plan on using a hacked up laptop for my system.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't have a game pad, so a keyboard hack is probably my best option.

[Wizard of DelRay]

I have a keyboard hack i never used for sale on ebay.  Don't expect it to go for much so it could save you some time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6126757950&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

It might fetch more than you expected.  A couple must want it kinda bad as I've been bid against like 5 times today.

Thank me later for getting you a decent price.

[gap]

The IPAC-VE (value edition) is $35 delivered.

What are your eight inputs, btw?  The joystick will take 4 and you said there will be two player buttons.  What are the remaining 2?

Escape button?
Pause button?
Credit (coin1) button?
Player 1 start button?
Player 2 start button?

[Shifty]

A standard joystick in Windows is 8-way plus 4 buttons. You don't need any drivers for that, and you shouldn't need any for DOS mame, it should recognise the joystick. I've never tried pure dos with my joysticks though.

You just need a really basic joystick, or make your own -- I used 4 resistors and 2 relays to make a joystick for my cabinet. It's simple, as long as you have some basic electronics knowledge and are handy with a solder gun!

[Bgnome]

I have a keyboard hack i never used for sale on ebay.  Don't expect it to go for much so it could save you some time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=6126757950&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

It might fetch more than you expected.  A couple must want it kinda bad as I've been bid against like 5 times today.

Thank me later for getting you a decent price.

im glad he is getting some amount of credit for all that work.  its already got the terminal strips and soldering, and includes a nice keymap and everything.  $5 for all that would have been a shame..

[Tiger-Heli]

If you're only going to be using a 4-way joystick and two fire buttons, you shouldn't have to worry about key ghosting, so you can hack a keyboard to use the default Mame keys without hassle.

Not necessarily, but see http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html for all the details.

[Witchboard]

The IPAC-VE (value edition) is $35 delivered.

What are your eight inputs, btw?  The joystick will take 4 and you said there will be two player buttons.  What are the remaining 2?

Escape button?
Pause button?
Credit (coin1) button?
Player 1 start button?
Player 2 start button?

Player 1 start, player 2 start.  I kinda forgot about the admin buttons.    Will DOS Mame or a front end support two keys together to pop open the emu, or is that strictly with the encoder?  Must beat head against wall now.

You just need a really basic joystick, or make your own -- I used 4 resistors and 2 relays to make a joystick for my cabinet. It's simple, as long as you have some basic electronics knowledge and are handy with a solder gun!

I've already got a J-Stick I'm going to use.

Not necessarily, but see http://www.mameworld.net/emuadvice/keyhack2.html for all the details.

Thanks for the link.  I may just bite the bullet and get an economy encoder.  We'll see.

Edit:  Nah, I'll hack a keyboard.  At most it will only be one or two more keys to map.  Besides, I'd like to say that I've done it.

[NoOne=NBA=]

I much prefer gamepad hacks because all the wiring is already there.
You just have to hook UP to UP, etc... and it all works.
That eliminates the whole "what's this do, where does that go" figuring out phase of the hack.

[Witchboard]

Here's my limitations.  I really don't have an option.  I'm using an old laptop... no game port, and DOS, no USB.  I think that pretty much leaves either a keyboard hack or a PS/2 encoder.  

[Bgnome]

do you have an available lpt port?  will you be using windows?
if so, you can make a digital CP of sorts by hooking up your microswitches directly to the lpt port and use ppjoy, much like the gameport adapter shifty mentioned.

[SirPeale]

ArcadeOS supports P1 and P2 together to exit the game.

[crashwg]

There's a arcade style joystick that someone used to make that had a PS2 port pass-thru connector for your keyboard...  It was programable by holding the button and typing the key on the keyboard...  Can't remember what it was call...  

I'm pretty sure they stopped making them a LONG time ago but I think it had some sort of younger brother sorta thing that was a game pad, not sure if it did the same thing.  Feel free anyone to chime in and tell him what I'm talking about.  Who knows maybe someone's sellin' one on eBay.

[edit]
AHA!  I figgured it out, it's call PowerRamp!  Made by Act-Labs.  There's actually a write up about them on this verry site.  What'ya know.  Go HERE for more information about it.

Oh and go HERE for one that's currently on ebay.  It doesn't have the very important cable but at least we know they're sometimes available, right?

[/edit]

{edit} (yes again...)

Found PowerRamp Mites available!  Check HERE

{/edit}

[Witchboard]

do you have an available lpt port?  will you be using windows?
if so, you can make a digital CP of sorts by hooking up your microswitches directly to the lpt port and use ppjoy, much like the gameport adapter shifty mentioned.

Yeah, I'll have the lpt port and a com port, but I'll be running DOS.

ArcadeOS supports P1 and P2 together to exit the game.

Cool.  That's what I was looking for.  Thanks Peale.

Found PowerRamp Mites available!  Check HERE

Very interesting.  Thanks crashwg.

[Tiger-Heli]

ArcadeOS supports P1 and P2 together to exit the game.

So does MAME.

My recommendations - If this is just for MAME (or other programmable emulators), go with a keyboard hack.

The power-ramp MITE is workable, but by the time you figure in E-bay hassles (no set price), shipping, and possibly difficultly finding drivers, it might not be the best choice.

Finally there's the KeyWiz ECO from www.groovygamegear.com.  For $26.95 plus shipping, you get a full-featured programmable encoder, but you have to solder, but you do with a keyboard hack also.