Is this legal?

[etoasty]

Came across this on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=13716&item=6109582083

The sellers says that he isn't selling the emulator, it's included for free with the games. Regardless though, (and I'm probably missing something) isn't selling games illegal?

[Wizard of DelRay]

No, it's not.  In fact, the problem doesn't lie with the emulator really, it lies with the roms.  Whether free or sold, they are not to be included with the emulator, period.

[paigeoliver]

His disclaimer is hilarious.

I'm not selling the program, I'm selling the games.

His feedback also shows that he sells bootlegs of PC games as well.

[Wizard of DelRay]

I was looking at his feedback and saw that, too.  It's pitiful how eBay can see that he has multiple negatives related to selling roms/bootlegs but have yet to suspend his account.

[Mr. Dude]

Man this guy is really something else.  I can't believe he is actually trying to get away with this.

[JoyMonkey]

You can report stuff like this here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_inline/report_listing.html

I think this falls into the "Unauthorized Copies" category.

[SeaMonkey]

Fleecing Americans....who would have thought?

Next thing you know, somebody will start selling WATER in BOTTLES!

[RacerX]

This is beside the point that it's illegal, but that's sure a peculiar mix of games.

Also, I'd like to see someone get Mortal Combat 3 to run worth a darn on a 700 MHz processor.  And Heavy Barrell isn't really playable without a rotary joystick.

[RacerX]

His disclaimer is hilarious.

I'm not selling the program, I'm selling the games.

His feedback also shows that he sells bootlegs of PC games as well.

BTW, good to see you Paige!  

[Wizard of DelRay]

You can report stuff like this here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_inline/report_listing.html

I think this falls into the "Unauthorized Copies" category.

Already have.  What's sad is that it was reported almost 12 hours ago and yet his two auctions are still not pulled.

[Crazy Cooter]

He has two more auctions going now.  It seems I can't report him because I'm not an ebay member  What's up with that?  What emulator is he selling that's open source?

[etoasty]

I just reported his two new auctions. Simply amazing what people think they can get away with on eBay.

Thanks guys

[Wizard of DelRay]

I just reported his two new auctions. Simply amazing what people think they can get away with on eBay.

Hopefully they'll respond quicker to you than to me.  I reported these just before 11 PST last night and they are still up.

[JoyMonkey]

I emailed one of the buyers that bought a CD from this guy in the past and left bad feedback about it being a pirate CD. Turns out that it is Mame that he's including with the roms. Big no-no!
And his other two auctions are STILL up!

[etoasty]

I emailed the seller directly and he also confirmed it's MAME.

My email to him

Dear ols76,

What emulation program comes with this? MAME and a frontend?

His reply

MAME only.

(i just wanted to play with the quote tags, never used them before)

If i was a little more bored (or mean) i'd create a new eBay ID and bid on all his auctions for ROMS, never pay, and leave bad feedback. That's the quickest way to get him to stop.

[missioncontrol]

I reported him to Ebay also...maybe if enough people do Ebay will do something

[Wizard of DelRay]

Yeah, I've done it twice now.  Maybe somebody should contact some of the companies whose games are being "sold" and let them know what's up.

Apparently eBay condones the sale of these companies' games without their permission.

[JoyMonkey]

Yeah, I'm sure that Namco wouldn't be too pleased to hear that Mr. and Ms. Pacman are being auctioned off by some scummy pimp. I think it's best that people like ourselves try and stop these kind of auctions/scams before the big companies get involved.
I'm surprised that people like Namco have let Mame and other popular emulators go as long as they have, especially since they're now licensing out games for the TV games. If they see people making money off them on eBay, it doesn't look good for anyone in the emulation community.

[Crazy Cooter]

Why not contact one of the MAME developers?  They can tell ebay it's their program that's being sold.

[Wizard of DelRay]

Got him!  About time they pulled that SOB's auctions.

[Crazy Cooter]

 

[etoasty]

Victory!  

[iwillfearnoevil]

and i'm sure all of us have a working pcb for each rom on our computer.

[JoyMonkey]

and i'm sure all of us have a working pcb for each rom on our computer.

But we're not profiting from having roms of PCBs that we don't own. This is why the emulation community has survived as long as it has, becasue the games companies that own the copyrights have been turning a blind eye to us, as we're not eating their profits.
Not to mention the fact that what that guy was doing was blatantly breaking the Mame Usage and Distribution License, which is there to keep emulators alive.

[Wizard of DelRay]

and i'm sure all of us have a working pcb for each rom on our computer.

So what's with the sarcasm?  Was it your auction that got pulled?  Do you charge people for roms?

As for the reason, JoyMonkey hit it right on.  We are not charging for the emulator or the roms.

[RayB]

Jened is right on the money too, so let's not jump on his/her back. Fact is we shouldn't be copying ROMs for "non-profit" purposes either.

[whammoed]

Jened is right on the money too, so let's not jump on his/her back. Fact is we shouldn't be copying ROMs for "non-profit" purposes either.

Yes, but what was the point?  Is he saying they should not have reported the seller to ebay because what people on this forum do is just as bad?  Please clarify.

[paigeoliver]

Jened is right on the money too, so let's not jump on his/her back. Fact is we shouldn't be copying ROMs for "non-profit" purposes either.

Yes, but what was the point?  Is he saying they should not have reported the seller to ebay because what people on this forum do is just as bad?  Please clarify.

Pretty much.  

I personally also don't agree with selling roms on ebay, but really it's like "Pot to kettle, you're black!".

[Xiaou2]

 Reporting the sales of Roms only  really draws more attention to it!   Ugg.

 Calling companies attention to it to flame a seller - will be even worse for the emulation community!   Think about it!  

 If companies see illegal sales, let them take care of it.  else, let sleeping dogs lie sleeping.... right?

  While it might not be right to sell something that you do not own...  I doubt anyone here could say that they are a saint... and havnt done anything illegal or morrally wrong.

 So... get off your high horses... and get realistic.   You are pirates... just like they are.

  Too add to this... the reason emulation has survived this long has little to do with rom sales.   Companies are too busy trying to push the latest and greatist 3d hardware crappy fps type games.

 They do not think they can sell the older 2d titles and make any decent profit from them.

  Midway said that they tried to release a simple 2d puzzle type game and it failed...and because of that,  the stores returned the merchandise.  So... that means that thousands to millions of dollars were wasted: worthless piles of cds,  new artwork and packaging,  instruction manuals,  playtesting, bug squashing, ect... all down the tubes.

 So now they just focus on popular 'clone'  games... like fps, fps, fps, fps and maybe a racing game every now and then.


  The only rare occasion is when smaller companies buy rights to older games and take the risks themselves.   However...  we are recently witnessing a re-release of certain games from Atari & others,  because they are seeing the great demand for them...  greater than they expected.  Still, even they know that many out there in PC land can barely open email let alone get an emulator to run.  Also, Im sure that there is a mutual respect for the salvage of gaming history - both thier games, and the works of others.

 The only people that get agressive are usually the lawyers... who want to sue so that they can get thier money.   Suing very small individuals will not bring in the kind of cash that can afford thier services... so its unlikly that suits will happen... unless there is significantly huge sales.

 

[Wizard of DelRay]

Reporting the sales of Roms only  really draws more attention to it!   Ugg.

I'm sure that eBay calls all the companies and says "Hey, guess who's selling your roms?"

Calling companies attention to it to flame a seller - will be even worse for the emulation community!   Think about it!  

And I'm sure they are oblivious to the emulation scene.  You say yourself they don't believe they can turn a profit with 2d games, so why would they care?

If companies see illegal sales, let them take care of it.

Better yet, let's just ignore all illegal activity period.

So... get off your high horses... and get realistic.   You are pirates... just like they are.

We're on our high horses because we don't think somebody should profit from selling roms?  Point out to where we ever once said or implied that we were better.

Suing very small individuals will not bring in the kind of cash that can afford thier services

I seriously doubt anyone was even thinking of a lawsuit.


This was not meant to be turned into an argument, but to stop someone who has been getting away with this for almost 4 months.  Simple as that.

[whammoed]

Well, I do think there are different shades of illegal.  I wouldn't report a driver going 10mph over the speed limit but I imagine I would report a driver that was running people off the road.
Personally I just wish there were more ways to get a legal copy of a rom.  By the way, if you don't own your copy of an Atari rom that StarRoms has available, go buy it now!
http://www.starroms.com/

[iwillfearnoevil]

no they weren't my auctions and i don't sell roms or anything arcade related. i don't condone selling the roms either. i'd report them and move on. i was mentioning the irony of how upset people get when they hear mame is bundled with roms but don't care if a cd or harddrive only has roms (without mame). kinda ignoring the fact that the use of roms is not legal. yes there is a difference between selling and consuming and there is the fact of loss of revenue by not buying the game. but i'm not trying to start a flame war or big discussion about piracy or fair use or anything else.

[Wizard of DelRay]

jened:  I agree with you.  I think we were just finding it ironic how long this particular person has been getting away with this.

And I also agree with you, Xiaou2 and paigeoliver that roms we possess without the PCBs is also illegal.  I just like to think most everyone who does have them aren't it for a profit.  But you're right: enough said about this before it does get out of hand.

[tshizzle.com]

this is pathetic - especially considering almost every one of you surely own a complete set of roms, and probably many other emulator complete sets

you have 2500+ pcbs in your house???  1000+ nes carts?  didnt think so

and no its not me or anyone I even remotely know, its just I hate when people cry to eBay about "illegal" stuff when they do tons of it theirselves

[paigeoliver]

I do have around 100 pcbs!

[Wizard of DelRay]

this is pathetic - especially considering almost every one of you surely own a complete set of roms, and probably many other emulator complete sets

you have 2500+ pcbs in your house???  1000+ nes carts?  didnt think so

and no its not me or anyone I even remotely know, its just I hate when people cry to eBay about "illegal" stuff when they do tons of it theirselves

I'm sure the opinion of someone who is making knock-off, flea market t-shirts will weigh heavily on the topic of bootlegging.  And I'm guessing the reason you hate it when people "cry to eBay" might have something to do with said shirts.

There was already disagreements and eventually agreements made about the legality of roms.  Try reading all the posts before showing up late to the party.

[tshizzle.com]

yea i read the topic, thats why I replied.  

And yes, being on the end of people crying to eBay cuz I dont have an official MLB logo on a shirt weighs on my opinion in the eBay sense, but 90% of it is because I have a full set of roms like probably anyone here.  I have multiple PC games/software/etc like everyone else. PS2/Xbox, etc...

Do I know its "illegal"?  YES.

Do I care?  NO.  It should be illegal for the bastids to charge $50 for a pressed DVD to play on the XBox I purchased, which M$ then says I cant mod legally even though I OWN IT.  


Do I sell them?  NO.  But not cuz Im on some "holier than thou" morality kick, but because of people like in this thread that feel the need to be little snitches cuz they arent making money.  

Tattle-tales ( resorted to 5th grade namecalling )

[Wizard of DelRay]

Do I sell them?  NO.  But not cuz Im on some "holier than thou" morality kick, but because of people like in this thread that feel the need to be little snitches cuz they arent making money.  

Tattle-tales ( resorted to 5th grade namecalling )

 

[JoyMonkey]

I know you are but what am I?

[pointdablame]

I know you are but what am I?

OOOOOHHHHHH BURN!