Swappable CPs design input/questions...

[jfunk]

OK, so I'm building my first cab!  I'm in planning phases but plan to build the bulk of the cabinet this weekend.  Nothing like a bit of warm weather and a free Saturday to get things started!

Anyways, my questions regard 'swappable control panels'...  I'm doing almost everything by "The Book"    In there, Saint mentions creating different control panels and hot-swapping them..  But I didn't see much in the way of elaboration.  I've searched the board, but haven't found much.  Maybe I'm using the wrong terms..  After all, I am a newbie..  

I've actually thought of a couple of ways to do this:

#1 - EXPENSIVE - I could just attach a USB IPAC to each CP I build.  Just unplug/replug the USB cable, and you're up and running.  Each could have it's very own programmed prom and everything..  But yikes, what a cost!

#2 - COMPLEX - Could create some sort of 'wiring harness'..  Just plug in the harness to a common IPAC and away you go.  Would just have to match up the wires on both sides of the harness and make sure they're the same for each CP.  A pain, but possible.  Not sure what parts I'd need, though...

What have others done?  I really want 3 different CPs..  I'm going to post my 'first draft' pics of each here for opinions on them.  The one I'm DEFINITELY going to do is what I call my EVERYDAY CP.  It's shown below.  I'll post my Q-Bert CP and my Fighter CP next...

My Everyday CP will have 2 Ultimarc T-Stik Pluses..  I want that 4/8-way swappability (is that a word?!)  If I can get an inexpensive, yet quality, 3" trackball (like from Peale), I'll keep the 3"er..  But I may just go with a 2.25" one from Ultimarc.  I'm not going to play any spinner games, so no spinner...  The templates are taken from "The Book"..  The buttons are in the '7-button Medium Fighter' layout..  Thoughts?

[jfunk]

Here's my Q-Bert/Congo Bongo CP..  Just using an Ultimarc J-Stik rotated 45 degrees counter-clockwise.  I added 2 buttons on each side for lefties and righties.. However, I'm pretty sure I'll only need one on each side?

The rest is pretty straight-forward.  Are there any other games besides Q-Bert (and it's variations) and Congo Bongo that need this type of layout?  Not that it matters..  I like the games enough to have a dedicated panel for them  

THANX AGAIN!

[jfunk]

The Fighter CP is my final one.  Again the '7-button Medium Fighter' layout from the templates..  A Happs Competition for each player.  This gets rid of the trackball for extra room, and provides a better joystick for hitting those diagonals..  Pretty simple.

Is the 'Neo Geo' button really worth it?  I'm not even sure how it's mapped, but I know this is a popular layout..  Does the mapping go:

 1 2 3
 4 5 6
7

or is there some other mapping that is common?  Is the 7 button a duplicate of one of hte main 6?  It's been so long since I've played some of these things in the arcade that I can't think of the best config for them!

Looking at the pic, I might switch the P# Start and P# Coin buttons..  They seem backwards..

Really looking forward to everyones thoughts!  I know these aren't the most original layouts, but hey, I want functionality over originality!!  

THANX!

[SOAPboy]

well.. id reckon you could use RJ 45 jacks to "swap" out the CPs..

[jfunk]

That's a great idea!  You get so focused on one or two thoughts, and you miss things like that  

Will Cat5 be thick enough wiring?

Thanx!

[Lilwolf]

I'm hoping to start selling some hotswap control panel parts in the new few months.  

That is because I've tried a bunch of items, and non seem to work in the long run.

most of the troubles is the number of inputs you need.  I was using db25 serial cables.  Worked pretty well, but I needed a bunch... and I couldn't get my kids to swap them.   Also the ends start to go bad after a while.

rj45 only have 8 pins... So for most people they would need 3 - 5 of these...   Also cabling with solid core wire sucks... you will find that crimping quickdisconnects will break after a while.

Anyway, hope to have a solution at some point...  Waiting on parts availablity... Its amazing to find what parts are hard to find in bulk...  

[Buddabing]

OK, so I'm building my first cab!  I'm in planning phases but plan to build the bulk of the cabinet this weekend.  Nothing like a bit of warm weather and a free Saturday to get things started!

Anyways, my questions regard 'swappable control panels'...  I'm doing almost everything by "The Book"    In there, Saint mentions creating different control panels and hot-swapping them..  But I didn't see much in the way of elaboration.  I've searched the board, but haven't found much.  Maybe I'm using the wrong terms..  After all, I am a newbie..  

I've actually thought of a couple of ways to do this:

#1 - EXPENSIVE - I could just attach a USB IPAC to each CP I build.  Just unplug/replug the USB cable, and you're up and running.  Each could have it's very own programmed prom and everything..  But yikes, what a cost!

#2 - COMPLEX - Could create some sort of 'wiring harness'..  Just plug in the harness to a common IPAC and away you go.  Would just have to match up the wires on both sides of the harness and make sure they're the same for each CP.  A pain, but possible.  Not sure what parts I'd need, though...

What have others done?  I really want 3 different CPs..  I'm going to post my 'first draft' pics of each here for opinions on them.  The one I'm DEFINITELY going to do is what I call my EVERYDAY CP.  It's shown below.  I'll post my Q-Bert CP and my Fighter CP next...

My Everyday CP will have 2 Ultimarc T-Stik Pluses..  I want that 4/8-way swappability (is that a word?!)  If I can get an inexpensive, yet quality, 3" trackball (like from Peale), I'll keep the 3"er..  But I may just go with a 2.25" one from Ultimarc.  I'm not going to play any spinner games, so no spinner...  The templates are taken from "The Book"..  The buttons are in the '7-button Medium Fighter' layout..  Thoughts?

For me, simplicity, reliability, and durability outweigh cost considerations. My swappable panels will have a keyboard cable connection and a mouse cable connection to the PC, and nothing more. This makes separate IPACs necessary.

Why do you have two panels with 2 player 7 button configurations? My trackball panel will have a 4/8 way switchable joystick, three buttons, and a trackball. This one panel will play a large percentage of games.

RJ-45 cables have 8 wires. So a panel that has 14 player buttons, two start buttons, a coin/shift/admin buttons, and eight joystick inputs will need 25 inputs. You'll need four RJ-45 connectors to accomplish this, which gets messy. Will you trust a 12-year old kid to swap your panels.

I truly believe that by the time you add up the extra connectors, wiring, and the extra amount of time you take building, maintaining, and repairing your panels, you will spend less money on the separate keyboard encoders.

[Bgnome]

if you already have a fighter panel, there is no need for the 7 button layout on the trackball panel.

another plug people use is a db-25, aka parallel port, plug.  you may need to add a rj-45 on top of that, but it does help keep things straight..

[patrickl]

I'm using 36 pin centronix connectors. The stuff they use in swappable harddisk units. My cab is not finished so I can't say anything about longevity, but since my removable harddisks work fine on it I foresee no problems.

Mahuti did some work on leaf connectors for swappable panels. It's a bit down in the thread: Interfacing swappable Control Panels..

[Flinkly]

why don't you just wire up some fingerboards on your upright and give each control panel a single connector to connect up with, like a jamma cab.  just wire up to the fingerboard the max that you'd ever use, and then to your connector, just wire up what your cp uses, you'll have to map it out well and be a good solderer (is that a word?) but it would work nice.  what i mean by fingerboards and connectors is like what cartridge based home consoles use to plug games in.  bob roberts sells them in all sorts of forms and he's got good prices for everything else you would need.  also, i don't think you need a everyday cp and a fighter cp, just seems like wasting money, but thats just my idea. good luck.

[jfunk]

patrickl, thanx for pointing out that thread!  That's some good reading!

After reading the comments, I guess it is kind of ridiculous having 2 panels with 7 buttons/player..  I'm thinking of having my every day panel only have 4 buttons per player...  That should play most every game..  I like the separate fighter because of hte differences in joysticks...

And I guess I could put my 45 degree 4-way and a single button in the empt space on my everyday panel, but that just seems 'cluttered'..  I'd rather have a simple extra panel..

Frankly, the non-everyday panels are currently just a future to-do...  The Everyday one is the one I'll "need"  

Thanx for the info!  All advice/criticism is welcome!

[ericball]

A couple of points:

1. I thought that most fighter CPs used joysticks with circular restrictors (like the Super or P360), since many fighters use circular joystick moves for special moves.

2. You may not need the dedicated diagonal panel if you use a Competition (or other 8-way joystick with corners) and configure MAME with UP AND RIGHT style inputs.

[Minwah]

Molex connectors are good, and you can get a million different types with as many 'ways' as you like.  On my cab, I actually find them *easier* to plug in than USB leads:  50% of the time I have the USB plug round the wrong way...and it's hard to find the hole sometimes (heh )  And hot-swapping PS/2's is even worse and not recommended IMO.

Mulitple IPAC's is a costly way of doing it I think.

[rchadd]

i used D25 plug/socket for my movable control panels

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=10;action=display;threadid=25687