The end is near.....glass or plexi?

[Oldskool]

I'm almost done my "little" project that started out in my cold, cold garage last winter.

Last but not least, I now have to order glass of some sort. I've seen Oscar's pics, and have decided to go with smoked / tinted.

Questions:

Which is better, plexi or glass? I've heard that glass reflects more.

Transmittibility ratings. Should I get the darkest stuff? (lowest percentage)

Retailers in Canada. Any recommendations?

Thanks in advance.

[paigeoliver]

Glass is so much harder to scratch and looks so much better.

Any glass shop should be able to help you. Just start calling them in the phone book.

[Sylentwulf]

Glass is MUCH better. The price difference isn't that bad either. You can get tempered smoked for less than $30USD

I imagine non-smoked would be even less. I got something like a 27"*32" 5/16" Tempered smoked glass. (someone can verify that for me, I got the thickness from someone on the boards.

[paigeoliver]

I believe 5/16" is the size I usually buy as well. I usually pay about half that though, because I know people!

[Tiger-Heli]

Lot of reading, but:

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=4779;start=0
(3 pages)

http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=24091;start=msg196876#msg196876

[Santoro]

Glass is MUCH better. The price difference isn't that bad either. You can get tempered smoked for less than $30USD

DAMN.  Every place within 20 miles of me wants $70 US.  Do glass prices vary by region?

[Lilwolf]

Based on your icon...

I would say PLEXIGLASS!

my god... I can't imagine you NOT smashing the screen every time you get killed.

PLEXI!

Sure... if your icon was something different... I would say glass... But the SlapShot reference scares glass.

[Oldskool]

Glass is MUCH better.

And the darker (the gray) the better.......?



.

[greywolf22]

I agree with glass, and I only was charged $21 US for grey tempered glass.  Great look.

[Minwah]

Another vote for glass here: I got a piece 599x642mm, tinted & toughened for

[Sylentwulf]

DAMN.  Every place within 20 miles of me wants $70 US.  Do glass prices vary by region?

The first place I went to said something like $60, I went literally 100 feet down the road to the only other glass place in town and they said $30. Check around.

[bionicbadger]

Yeah prices for both plexi and glass vary quite a bit.  Especially if you are looking for tempered, since not all places temper their own glass.  Personally I think tempered is overkill unless you are building a cocktail cabinet.  Your glass shouldn't be taking a beating.  Plexi looks fine too.  I went with plexi for mine and have no regrets, but i'm cheap.  Glass would probably look better.

[LeedsFan]

Ha Ha!!!    The first thing I noticed in this thread was the avatar. Classic film!!!

Anyway..... I'd say go for glass. I'm just doing my first project at the moment, which is a converted Electrocoin Xenon unit. This comes with a tinted glass screen as is, and it looks great.

But one thing to consider...... are you fitting a bezel afterwards? Because if you go tinted then you will need to mount the bezel on top of the glass unless you cover the glass with another layer of clear perspex or glass. Not really important as such, but something to consider.  

[Oldskool]

But one thing to consider...... are you fitting a bezel afterwards?

No bezel.

I'm just back from our local Speedy Auto Glass, and decided to go with 3mm thick glass (1/8") and dark gray automotive tint. The smoked glass just didn't look dark enough.

Yes, prices do vary. The original quote was lowered significantly when the gentleman saw that I wasn't pleased with the total.

I'm picking it up tomorrow, so I hope it works out okay.......

[versapak]

I have no experience on the issue, but...


1/8" seems awefully thin. Especially for glass.

[Oldskool]

1/8" seems awefully thin. Especially for glass.

Well, it's merely decorative right? There's no load or weight on it......

Here's hoping it's okay.  

[deadmoney5]

I wanted to get smoked plexi...but I don't think you will be able to find that anywhere...

Can somebody prove me wrong on that?

[LeedsFan]

1/8" seems awefully thin. Especially for glass.

Well, it's merely decorative right? There's no load or weight on it......

Here's hoping it's okay.  

I totally agree.... unless you lose your rag when you get ripped with a bouncing barrel in Donkey Kong, and feel the need to impact your forehead into the aforementioned decorative fixture!

[pocketbikez]

i always used plexi/lexan because i could buy it at home depot, i could trim it to fit easily, i could paint the backside easily, and i could drill thru and modify it. i also would prefer clear over smoked. i wouldnt want to lose any brightness or intensity from the graphics on the monitor.

go team lexan!   lol

[Shifty]

Oldskool, I'm about to purchase a tinted smoked glass too, in Canada -- thanks for the Speedy Auto Glass suggestion. I never thought of trying them!

So you're getting glass that has a tinted film on it? Mind if I ask how much that was, and how much the smoked glass was?  

[Oldskool]

Mind if I ask how much that was, and how much the smoked glass was?  

The conversation started off as.....

"How much for a 25 x 25" piece of glass with dark tint on it?"

The reply was in the range of $75.00 plus tax.

I then asked how much smoked glass was, and one of the guys behind the counter, once he saw my sticker shock face said, "If the smoked is cheaper....we match the price for the tinted glass".

At the end of it all, it was $55.00....and still a little high in my opinion.

When you go in, haggle a bit, and offer them a cash deal. You should do better than I did.



.

[Oldskool]

Well, I learned the hard way.

5% tint is TOO dark.

Now what to do.......

[Shifty]

Thanks for the price check, I am prepared to spend up to $100. Was your glass tempered? I want tempered for safety.

I assume you mean by 5%, it lets through only 5% light? If so, that's limo tint! Most cars are about 35-50%. I was thinking about 80% would be sufficient -- just enough to block the unsightly monitor attachment and such.

If it's just film tint, you should be able to go back, and give them a 20 or so to put on something lighter.

[Oldskool]

Thanks for the price check, I am prepared to spend up to $100. Was your glass tempered? I want tempered for safety.

Yeah, I will have to get them to redo it.

The other thing is that there still are a few small water bubbles under the tint that the guy said would disappear over a couple of days. That was four days ago.

I think I'll play the disgusted customer, and ask for it to be redone.....with a lighter tint of course.....  

[RandyT]

I think I'll play the disgusted customer, and ask for it to be redone.....with a lighter tint of course.....  

~20%.  If you aren't trying to hide the monitor outlines, go to standard 35% transmission auto tint.

RandyT

[Oldskool]

~20%.  If you aren't trying to hide the monitor outlines, go to standard 35% transmission auto tint.

That's exactly what I did.

My monitor is black, and I've painted the inside of my cab black as well, so I hope that it's satisfactory.

I pick it up tomorrow......so we'll see.

[tshizzle.com]

heres a couple pics of mine, just picked up Smoked Plexi (lexan) at Lowes for $13!







Not very good at taking pics without the flash (with the flash on you see right thru the smoked plexi)  

But wow, it looks SWEET now.  I love it

[Oldskool]

I've installed my 35% tinted glass, and.......it's a little too light for my taste.

The offered tints were: 5% / 20% / 35% / 50%

I should have selected the 20%.

[DanteBK]

How is everyone mounting their glass or plexiglass?

I have a silver-cased TV that's so big it's almost right up to the edge. I'm thinking about going over the case with a sharpie before I get the glass since I could swear I heard of someone else doing the same thing. Stupid idea?

[Oldskool]

How is everyone mounting their glass or plexiglass?

I have a silver-cased TV that's so big it's almost right up to the edge. I'm thinking about going over the case with a sharpie before I get the glass since I could swear I heard of someone else doing the same thing. Stupid idea?

I sandwiched mine between L-brackets (and felt tabs) on the inside, and 1/4 round on the outside.

[tshizzle.com]

My cabinet had grooves in it already for the plexi.....

And about the Sharpie, I had a silver TV too.  I just used Black Electrical tape on the sides

[rchadd]

this has been discussed soooo many times before!

grey tinted tempered glass.

[RandyT]

this has been discussed soooo many times before!

grey tinted tempered glass.

True, but it's interesting to note that the effect Oldskool was looking for still wouldn't have been achieved by your suggestion!  Most of that type of material is 35% or above in transmission.

It just goes to show how many people are still unclear on the pros/cons of the materials, but more importantly, the effect each of them achieves.  This defines the final look of your project and is your "visual interface" to the machine.  The materials can also be costly so it's pretty important to try to get it right the first time.

Kelsey at Oscar Controls did grand job of demonstrating one of the materials.  It would be nice if that  type of effort were continued to show the effects of others, including names and sources of materials, so it could be made a permanent point of reference somewhere on a site such as this one

Until that happens, this will keep coming up...and justifiably so.

RandyT

[Oldskool]

True, but it's interesting to note that the effect Oldskool was looking for still wouldn't have been achieved by your suggestion!  Most of that type of material is 35% or above in transmission.

I do suppose that my situation is quite different than others on this board.

I do not have a bezel, and have a black cased computer monitor inside of my cabinet, which has been painted black internally.

My goal was to have the inside of the cabinet blacked out (as well as the monitor case), and the screen still visable.

The 5% tint did, for the most part, achieve this, but it dimmed the colours a little too much for my liking. With the brightness turned up, Golden Tee was still very playable, but it was bugging me.......

The switch to 35% tint has made a world of difference. The screen is (obviously) very clear, but I can now see the inside of the cab. That's why I stated that 20% probably would have been what I was looking for.

I'll take some pics and post them later.......

 

[darktemp]

Thanks for mentioning the 20%, that's exactly what I've been looking for.

[Oldskool]

Here's a pic of what it turned out like (with the 35% glass)

The monitor doesn't look as bright as in the photo...the flash lit it up a bit.

There's also a reflection in the glass, on the right hand side, from the overhead light in my garage.

[blueoakleyz]

I've yet to read the whole thread but
what thickness glass/lexan (plexiglass) should one use?

How do you seal it? Just like caulking or clear sealant or whatever?

[darktemp]

After calling just about every glass store in the phonebook I came to the conclusion that nobody in AZ knows the different light transmission ratings of the grey glass.  All I was able to get from the was that there was "regular grey" and "grey lite".  Does anybody know the ratings on both of these and which one I should get?  I finally have found some good prices on smoked grey tempered 1/4" thick glass and would love to run out and buy it.  Thanks.

[ras2a]

Is the 'tinting' a universal thing?  I'm just about to buy some grey tinted glass, but am uncertain about the level of tint (% or otherwise).  Can anyone else in the UK recommend a particular tint level to go for? Is there a common consensus? I'll be using it in conjunction with a TV (not monitor)..don't' know if that affects what I'll need ?

thanks

[Minwah]

Is the 'tinting' a universal thing?  I'm just about to buy some grey tinted glass, but am uncertain about the level of tint (% or otherwise).  Can anyone else in the UK recommend a particular tint level to go for? Is there a common consensus? I'll be using it in conjunction with a TV (not monitor)..don't' know if that affects what I'll need ?

I think I was lucky, I just asked for some tinted toughened glass and it turned out to be perfect.  No-one in the glass place I went to mentioned tint levels or anything...

[ras2a]

Hope I can hit jackpot too.  Cheers minwah

[ras2a]

Just phoned up a local glass merchant and for a piece of: grey tinted & tempered glass @  25" x 25" x 4mm thick, the cost is

[Minwah]

Just phoned up a local glass merchant and for a piece of: grey tinted & tempered glass @  25" x 25" x 4mm thick, the cost is

[dreamcastninja]

clear plexi... won't shatter, easy to clean, looks awesome, won't streak up like glass when you clean it... plexi is awesome stuff

[Shifty]

clear plexi... won't shatter, easy to clean, looks awesome, won't streak up like glass when you clean it... plexi is awesome stuff

You'll be cursing the first time a scratch turns up in plexi.

IMHO glass looks better, has better reflectivity (looks authentic) and greatly resists scratches. Worth the extra $$$.

[dreamcastninja]

i've had my plexi for over 2 years now... not scratched at all

[RandyT]

You'll be cursing the first time a scratch turns up in plexi.

IMHO glass looks better, has better reflectivity (looks authentic) and greatly resists scratches. Worth the extra $$$.

Plexi is more scratch resistant than Lexan and many use Lexan for thir CP overlays.  If you are subjecting your window to that level of abuse, I'd say that something is a bit out of kilter with your playing style  

Also, "better reflectivity" is not a desirable trait for a window, unless you like extra bright room reflections overlaid on your game screen.

Don't let the fear of scratches shy you away from plexi.  I have been using it for a couple of years now and it hasn't a single scratch of any significance.

RandyT

[ras2a]

There must be some attraction with glass though, as so many people seem to use it.  Also I assume that tinted glass will cut down on reflections?...maybe not, I don't know.  Anyone comment on that?

I know I've asked this already but what is the best overall tint level to go for with glass?  There must be a common consensus?

thanks a lot

[versapak]

Also I assume that tinted glass will cut down on reflections?

I would think that it would actually make it worse. The darker it is the more mirror like it would be.

[ras2a]

Ok this is p***ing me off now.  I must have phoned up about 20 glass merchants today and most that offer the tinted glass only do either bog standard grey or bronze.  When I start talking about different levels of tint/transmission grades etc, I am met with the same vacant sounding responses.  They think I'm a friggin' alien or summat - lol.  Has ANYONE in the UK managed to get hold of the 'correct' grey tinted glass required for their cabs?

help!

[RandyT]

Also I assume that tinted glass will cut down on reflections?

I would think that it would actually make it worse. The darker it is the more mirror like it would be.

Ras2a gets the nod on this one.  Read on to understand why this is true.

Glass and other optical materials have a number of properties; Diffusion, Surface quality, distortion, reflectivity, transmission, absorption and index of refraction to name a few.   These can all be controlled to a certain extent by manufacturing processes and/or optical coatings.

The ones that we are concerned with the most are Transmission, Reflectivity, and to a lesser extent, absorption.

The reflectivity of a surface is pretty much a constant based on a material and it's finish.  You perceive the darker material to be more reflective because less *transmitted* light gets mixed with the *reflected* light and the reflected light is seen with less interference and is therefore seen more clearly.

A simple way to think about this for our purposes is:

% Transmission = 100 -  (% Reflectance + % Absorption)
% Absorption = 100 -  (% Reflectance + % Transmission)
% Reflectance = 100 -  (% Absorption + % Transmission)

So in plain English, the less a material transmits and absorbs, the more it reflects, and the less it reflects or absorbs, the more it transmits.

Regular *clear* window glass, has a reflectance of about 2% per surface, or 4%.  If that same glass were opaque (i.e.  0% transmission in the visible spectrum and essentially black to the human eye) then you could only get a reflection from one surface.  Therefore, a dark piece of optical material is actually *less* reflective than a clear piece.

So what is optimal?

Something very expensive.  If you can afford it, an AR coating (Anti-Reflective) would be essential.  The material itself should absorb light *evenly* across the visible band.  This is known as a Neutral Density Filter.  The percentage of light that is allowed to pass should start at about 32 and go down from there, depending entirely on the effect you desire.

But what is practical?

Something that does the job, without breaking the bank.  If you are looking at a very specific transmission, clear glass with a well-applied window tint may be what you want.  Plexi comes in a "light" and "dark" version.  It is also made by a few companies under different names, but it's all Acrylic plastic.  Most will have their own light and dark versions, but may differ by the color and how much light is transmitted.

Suggestion.

Get samples!  If you can get a small chunk, take it home and see what it does over your screen.  When you get what you want,  buy a bigger piece.

But if you want to hide your screen, 20% or less (the dark smoke acrylic is usually between 16% and 18%)  If that's not what you are after, try 30% or slightly above.  You may need to go with one type of material over another just to get the specs you are looking for, and there's always automotive tint as a last resort.

...and that's about all I can tell you.

RandyT

[darktemp]

I've found that some shops carry 1 type of smoked gray glass which they call "regular gray" (not real helpful), however some shops carry the regular gray along with "graylite".  At first I would have assumed that the graylite was a lighter gray and wouldn't work, after doing some research however I found this:

"Graylite is unique among all tinted glass, offering a dark-gray, almost black appearance which provides excellent glare control, shading coefficient and ultraviolet screening.  Available in two thicknesses:

        Graylite #31 (31% light transmittance) is 1/8" thick
        Graylite #14 (14% light transmittance) is 1/4" thick "

I had been calling around looking for a tint with a light transmittance around 20% as RandyT suggested but nobody had that information.  So I ask, is 1/4" graylite at 14% VLT the best glass to use or is it too dark?

[ras2a]

Wow, thanks for that Randy, you sound like a clever bloke who knows his stuff.  Nice one mate .  Also Darktemp, thanks for that...never heard of greylite before.  I have been told that you can get laminated glass and it's the laminate part that is tinted rather than the actual glass itself.  This sounds like a feasible option, but again, it's knowing what to use.  I think I'll just experiment a bit as Randy says, until I find summat that works for me.

thanks guys!

[keltech]

Another vote for glass here: I got a piece 599x642mm, tinted & toughened for

[Minwah]

I was just wondering where you got your glass cut cheap in the UK? have you any contact details please

I got mine from this place:

Witney Glass
Unit 1,
West End Industrial Estate,
Witney,
OX28 1UB

01993 771515

I know they don't do the cutting/tinting/toughening process themselves, they send it somewhere.  One thing I would say is that they cut it very accurately, from the measurements I gave them.

You might end up paying more with shipping costs etc. tho.  Personally I would probably prefer to get glass locally...

[psik0tik]

Just get regular clear glass (its cheaper) and pick up a roll of tint from the auto parts store for like 12 bucks. Its easy as hell to put on and that way if you dont like it scrape it off and try again. Also I think  they sell that stick on stuff too that peels right off. For oldskool you could probably pick up a really light shade of this stuff to darken up your glass some. I used this s tuff and it comes out perfect.

[tommy]

Its true there is only grey and bronze in most cases, it depends what the glass shop is mostly in bussiness to do.

If you buy 1/4 grey it will be slightly darker then 1/8, i dont like plexi at all it does scratch easy and over long periods of time exposed to sunlight it will cloudup.

I always cut my own glass when needed for the best possible fit.