Need Opinions

[rob1234]

I sold my mame cabinet yesterday. The guy came here and I plugged the game in and powered it up. We played a game and he made sure everything worked. Today he calls me and says the computer says no cpu present. I told him to check to see if the ram, cpu, video card were all seated properly along with all the cables. In the process he broke the white connector for the video card. The computer shows a white screen when it loads. I know it is a problem with the video card and the way it is sitting. The guy tried to ask for a refund and I told him no since it always worked while I owned it and it worked yesterday when he picked it up. The computer was laying in the back of a work van for a good an and a half drive. I think he damaged it in transit possibly on top of the piece for the video card. He wants me to fix his computer. I told him I would look at it but I will not put any money into repairing it. He wants to ship it to me. Now here is my question...should I pay return shipping, and would you even look at the computer? He openly told me he is going to resell it and I know he will be making close to a $1000 profit off the sale. (I checked his profile saying how much a guy was paying him to make a game) The game worked perfect when he took it. Now he claims its not his problem and I should take part of the burdan.

[skid_68]

No way, DO NOT pay for anything (IF) you sold it to him AS-IS, and with no warranty. I assume you did right? Also, you should have typed up a document stating all this, and had both of you sign it. JUST in case he wants to take you to court for it. But if you did sell it as-is, then you have no obligation to fix it. Heck, you played the damn thing with the guy at your house, and it worked fine. Then he gets it home and it doesnt work. Thats his problem, he broke it, HE should pay to fix it. If you wanted to just be nice, you could look at the computer. But he should pay for the shipping both ways.

[Gunstar Hero]

"Let the buyer beware."

Even if you didn't sell it "as is" he tested it and took posession of the equipment with no warranty implied.

Sounds like he got a smokin' deal anyways, I'd let him pay the shipping if you're feeling kind enough to fix it for free.

[NoOne=NBA=]

Do you have a bill of sale stating "as-is, without warranty" on it?
That's not necessary, but it will really cover you in a case like this.
In this case, I would also have put "working when received" in it, so that you'd have his signature on that, as well.

I would personally see if the guy is willing to split the gas to get you there and back, to fix it at his house.
Shipping the computer back and forth leaves you too open to claims of "it was kind of working when I shipped it to him", and "it wasn't working at all when I got it back".
I'd also have him sign a release for any work you do, stating that there is no warranty on that either, that you are not responsible for anything else that breaks while you are trying to fix it, and that you are just doing it to be a nice guy.

If he wants work with a warranty, he needs to go to a licensed/bonded computer repair guy.

[spidermonkey]

Personally if it was me and he *just* picked it up last night I would probably take a look at the computer and try to help him diagnose the problem. Obviously its his fault that the video card is now broken but as far as the error messages prior to that well.. we all know how quirky and tempermental MAME cabs can be. Stop and think back if you ever had that particular error message during the time you built and played it. If so then I suppose the really nice thing to do would be to take a look at it for him. If it is the video card and if he were to supply the new one AND pay for shipping then I might consider even popping in the new video card for him as it doesn't take very long to do. But in no way are you responsible for paying for *anything* The only reason I would offer my labor to him is because of the fact that he just picked it up last night. If he called a month later complaining then I wouldn't give him anything other then maybe a little phone support if that. Bottom line is you really aren't obligated to do squat for him but if I were the buyer of a game and had problems that quickly (even if it was my fault) I would hope that the seller would at least make an attempt to help me so long as I brought the game and new parts right to him. Its really up to you. On the other hand if you were to try to fix it and broke something else in the process now you have him accusing you of making matters worse. I would probably base my decision on whether to help him by the way he acted when he called you and confronted you with the problem. Was he a ---meecrob--- bag right off the bat ? or was he polite in asking for assistance ? Whatever you do don't feel guilty if you decide not to help him because it really is *his* problem since he is now the owner. If he wanted a warranty then he should have asked and if you refused to give him a warranty he could have easily walked away from the sale but he didn't so that means he accepted the risk.

Good luck

[rob1234]

Ok I honestly think the guy is nuts. I have been leaving his name out of the topic out of kindness. I didn't get a paper signed saying as is, however I didn't imply any type of warranty either. I took 45 minutes of my time on the phone, (long distance) and tried to help him troubleshoot the problem. That was more then generous I think. As with all private property purchased, it is sold as is. You inspect it and make your decision. He bought a working game and now its not working after his car ride home. Here is the last message he sent me:

Hey Rob, tried the regular monitor suggestion, no luck. I took another video
card from another computer and tried it and it didn't work either.
I guess the big question is what are you willing to do to help resolve this
deal? I believe that it isn't unreasonable to think that all I needed to do
was bring the cab, pc etc. home and put it together and be able to get to
playing. You said you would be willing to work on the pc to fix it as long as
it didn't cost you any money. My fear with that is I send it to you, you have
to get parts to repair it and I have to spend even more money to handle
that.
I am not willing to drop any money into the pc either, it should have worked
when I got it home. It wasn't mishandled on my part, I have no clue whats
wrong with it. What would you expect if you were in my place and this happened
to you? Any suggestions would be appreciated. As an option I would be willing
to pack up the cab, pc etc. and bring it back up to you for a refund of my
$500. That may be the least costly, most sensible way to handle it, I don't
know.
LMK what you think, Thanks,

I am going to tell him I obviously can't take back a machine that was working upon purchase and is not working now. I would then be responsible for the damage incurred within his possession. I think its something to do with the graphics card...the screen just shows up white when the computer loads. I think he busted somthing on the motherboard so I am going to look up the motherboard on ebay and tell him he should try that. Any other comments/suggestions?

[Arcadiac]

OK, y'all, I'm the "guy".

I was hoping to resolve this with Rob privately, but since its been opened for discussion by Rob I'm gonna put my 2 cents in.

The PC worked at Rob's as he said.  He disassembled it, the cab etc.  Put parts in a box, helped load up the stuff into the
van.  The PC was loaded in the back of my van by Robs dad, looked ok to me where it was so I left it there.  
Unpacked everything, brought it into the house, let it sit inside overnight.  

Today, I set it up and while the PC was booting, I got a BIOS errror saying "cpu is unworkable or changed.  Please recheck -
CPU SOFT MENU"  Pressing F1 or DEL to enter setup did not work.  At that point I called Rob and asked him what to do,
assuming that since he built the PC he would be a bit more knowledgeable than I.  At Rob'suggestion I checked "to see if the
ram, cpu, video card were all seated properly along with all the cables."
While removing the AGP card, the small white clip that helps secure the card to the AGP slot came off with it.  It snaps in and
out, it is not "broken", look at an AGP slot and you will see what I mean.
I'm not a freakin' monkey with Godzilla hands, I've successfully installed video cards before.  
I did not mishandle or damage the PC in any way, it simply didn't work when I tried to use it.

The bottom line is not that I am looking to place blame or "get over" on somebody to pay for a repair that is probably no
ones fault, just looking to get exactly what I paid for, a working pc in an arcade MAME cabinet.  With out the working PC the cab is worth ~$100-200 at the most.

I expected to have a working MAME cabinet when I assembled it today and that is not the case.

So I'm simply seeking the least costly solution.

I don't believe that Rob was trying to F' me over or anything, I've never had a deal like this go bad so I simply asked for some help.
I really don't think that asking for help in absorbing half of the cost to fix the PC problem was unreasonable.

Whenever I make a deal with someone, If its wrong I try to make it right, and if they are not satisfied I offer them a refund, period.  
I stand behind whatever I sell, its just that simple.  My word, reputation and integrity is worth more to me than all this kinda crap.  So I probably am wrong in thinking that other people might want to operate that way, well so be it, I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not angry with Rob or anything, just feeling that if this is the best I get for $500 cash.......well how exactly would any one of you feel?

At this point I have an empty cab, an old TV, and a dead (at this point) PC.  

"Smokin' deal"-Gunstar Hero, what a stupid thing to say.

Do you REALLY think that without the working PC that this would have even been a "deal"?

Maybe the best solution is to pack up everything and bring it back and get my $500 cash back?  
With the lack of trust shown here maybe it will be the only solution, then we could both cut our losses and someone
else could get this "smokin' deal"?  

Anyway, just my 2 cents before all these "opinions"  
get out of hand.

Rob call me, email me, whatever, I'm open to solutions,
Thanks, Ron

ARCADIAC!<<<------Not a --cream-filled twinkie--!!


   

[rob1234]

emailed ARCADIAC and told him motherboard is $30 on ebay if he buys it and ships that and the computer to me and pays all shipping cost I would take the time to work on it free of charge. I think that is more the reasonable.

[Wizard of DelRay]

Tell you both what.  I have an extra motherboard and processor.  It's an Asus A7N266-VM with an Athlon XP 1700.  Now I will send this to you, Arcadiac, to help you with your problem with Rob.  It has worked fine for me but I'll state it now, once you get it it is your responsibility.  Especially since it's free.

As long as you already have memory, hard drive, etc., you should be good to go.  If you both agree to this, just let me know.

[rob1234]

It is arcadiacs decision. I am not promising its the mother board, but it has to be somthing to do with the graphics card and since he claims its not the card I think its the only other sollution.

[Wizard of DelRay]

I'm only putting this out there as a way to help you guys end this before it gets worse.  Sounds like Rob's on board so it's your call Arcadiac.

[MnMCaputo]

Hey wizard, if they dont want that 1700+, would you be willing to sell it to me?  As long as its a thoroughbred, easiest way to tell that is by looking at the die on top, if its a rectangle, i'll take it, if its almost square, then forget it.  thanks

[Wizard of DelRay]

if its a rectangle, i'll take it, if its almost square, then forget it.  thanks

It's not a T-bred (got a T-bred 2200 on my other board) but if it's free then who's to complain?

[rob1234]

I think its a very generous offer. Thanks either way.

[Wizard of DelRay]

Not a problem.  Hopefully he'll let you know sooner or later if he wants to do this (although it could be later since he just signed off).

[rob1234]

Yeah i noticed that, don't know why he didn't jump at the offer. I will talk to him don't see why this won't work. Thanks again. Rob

[Arcadiac]

Wiz, thank you, I'd be happy to give it a try, very generous of you to offer.  All I ever wanted was the $500 working MAME machine that I paid for in good faith, regardless of all the chatter, BS and opinions.  I'll email you my addy.
Wiz, I appreciate your help and will let you know how it turns out.  

[Wizard of DelRay]

Okay.  Just so we're all clear here this is gonna square you, Arcadiac, and you, Rob, on your transaction.  If that's not the case then I need to know ASAP cause that was the purpose of this.

[rob1234]

Its fine with me, I know I sound like an ass but that is his only option. He can buy the mother board or get yours and I will fix it. I won't put any money into it or give a refund since it left working and he openly admits it was working, but I will put some time into it. Thanks again wiz.

[DrewKaree]

All I ever wanted was the $500 working MAME machine that I paid for in good faith, regardless of all the chatter, BS and opinions.

That's what you DID get.  It worked when you played it with him.  It didn't when you got home.  It is both reasonable and logical to assume that something happened during transport.  If rob had provided transport for said machine, he would be responsible for ensuring the game worked when set up at your house.  Since he didn't, it is YOUR responsibility to get the machine to work again.

I bought a game at an auction.  It worked fine.  It was my responsibility to make sure the condition the machine was in was acceptable to me.  After I purchased it, I took it home.  Upone getting it home, I plugged it in.  The screen was wavering and blurry.  Do I take my machine back and demand that I get payment back equivalent to costs involved in fixing the monitor?  No.  I accepted the probability that my transportation methods caused the problem, as should YOU.  

What was the purpose of playing the game at his house?  You state you paid for "a working MAME machine", which you ascertained while playing it.  Checked, passed, sold.  

Rob, you're a good guy for going out of your way to rectify a situation in which you bear no responsibility.  If ever I have the opportunity to do business with you, I would do so without reservation.  

Wizard, your generosity is beyond belief.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, and I appreciate your efforts to help resolve this situation.

Nothing against you, Arcadiac.  You've just invested a good chunk of money, so I understand your frustration.  Thank goodness you've purchased from someone like rob.  Other sellers may not be/have been so kind.

[Wizard of DelRay]

DrewKaree:  Thanks for the compliments.  I'm thinking exactly like you and just wanted to see this resolved.

Now, since I have nothing to let me think otherwise, I'll assume this is resolved.  Arcadiac, I will have the mobo/cpu out tomorrow.

Out of curiosity, did anyone check to see if it was a power supply issue?  Or possibly the CPU fried?  Just wondering.

[Gunstar Hero]

Arcadiac -- Hey, a full MAME machine with PC and monitor for $500 is a smokin' deal, no matter how you slice it. And that one, from the pix in his other thread, was a pretty nice looking cab at that.

I'm sorry you're having trouble with it now, but "let the buyer beware" is pretty standard practice in a person to person handshake kind of deal like this.

[rob1234]

I knew this when he bought it, but didn't care since I need the space, he isn't even keeping it. He bought it to resell and make a profit.

[Lilwolf]

I have to say... Rob... you are going farther then you should.

This problem probalby would be fixed in 5 minutes by anyone who knows about computers.  

I worked for a company who sold prebuilt computers for a few years.  And 95% of all tech support was shipping related.  Cards pop out.  Memory pops out.  We ended up using hotglue guns and glue down ALL cards before shipping and all cables.... Really... and it worked.

But if someone is reselling used computer equipment... They should know enough how to diagnose a computer...  

But it was used...

[MnMCaputo]

Out of curiosity, did anyone check to see if it was a power supply issue?  Or possibly the CPU fried?  Just wondering.

Wizard brings up a good thing here, i've worked on a couple of machines where during transport, the el cheapo metal clip holding the heatsink down to the board has either come off or actually broken the little plastic tab on the mobo, making it useless, a cpu without a heatsink can fry in microseconds

[Goz]

Today, I set it up and while the PC was booting, I got a BIOS errror saying "cpu is unworkable or changed.  Please recheck -
CPU SOFT MENU"  Pressing F1 or DEL to enter setup did not work.

The mojority of times I've seen this message it has been because of a boards built in ability to handle options such as overclocking, hence the 'cpu soft menu'. It can likely be resolved by resetting the BIOS/CMOS settings. If the F1 / DEL doesn't get you into the menu, then you may want to try shorting the BIOS / CMOS jumper which should restore any setting to default.  I have seen this resolve the very same issue on multiple ASUS and ABIT boards.

Hope this helps,

-Goz

[RayB]

My 2 cents:

1. Once you take possession it's yours and the problems are yours. If you sold someone a car, they dinged it and then wanted their money back, YOU would lose out because you have to make the repairs. I don't think Rob deserves to get back a DAMAGED computer and yet refund the full amount. You'd have your money back, yet he would now have a machine that's damaged. He loses in this scenario.

2. Heatsinks are so heavy, it wouldn't surprise me if the vibration of a 1.5 hour drive, plus bouncing around in the back of a truck will surely cause problems (why in the hell weren't the PC parts in the cab with you??).

2B. As ANYONE who's purchased an arcade cab knows, the first thing you do before plugging it in is check for lossened connections, unseated chips, etc. Anything can happen during transport. Even a lone screw or bolt nut can bounce around and end up wedged in electrical parts. Rob has no control over how well the driver drove, whether you drove on rough roads, or what...

3. (uh oh, I guess I had 3 cents to share) Arcadiac: Please answer this question honestly: Was the power on or off when you inspected the PC cards and other parts?

~Ray B.

[rob1234]

Unless somthing happened durring transport I would not think it was the power supply. This machine worked great for 5 months now all of the sudden it doesn't work at all?

[rob1234]

Lilwolf: I told him it sounds like the video card is not sitting properly and he insists that it is. I also had him check the ram, cpu, ide cables, power connections to the motherboard and hard drive. So I think the fastest and cheapest way to fix this problem would be to just flip out the boards.

[spocktwin]

   Somewhat not on the topic, but this is one of the reasons I am constantly reading posts on this board.  I light it up as soon as I get to work and read when I get a few moments.  Hell I've even got my boss interested in doing a project of his own.  But the manner that everyone tries to diffuse what could be a very ugly situation says alot  about the people in this hobby.  Wizard you are the man and your generous offer to help end the situation can not have a price put on it.   I used to spend some time on the Diyvideo forum and even built my own big screen projector (very proud of it I might add) but have not been there in some time because of self righteous 'tudes when it came to helping people especially noobes.  I am not a big poster but a huge reader keep it up!!!

[Wizard of DelRay]

Arcadiac:  The board/cpu has been sent.  Hopefully you'll get it by Thursday (Friday at the latest since it went Priority).  I put a fresh layer of AS Ceramique and there is already a heasink on it so all you got to do is pop in the memory, any cards you have, and you're set.

[Tiger-Heli]

Gozur - From my experience, I agree, sounds like a BIOS/CMOS settings issue.

Wizard - Incredibly generous offer.  On behalf of the entire board, much appreciated.

Arcadiac, Rob - Even though Wizard shipped it with new AS on the heatsink, please make sure that puppy is still secure before anyone fires this up.