your thoughts on my control panel design?

[sdrob04]

Okay, deep breath,  , here goes:

I'm 38, so my idea of the 'classics' is everything from the earliest games up through the mid-80's or so (I remember playing Gunfight and Sea Wolf back in the day!)  As for my design approach, I gathered all the relevant 'Top Game' lists I could find (from this site, KLOV, mameworld, etc.) and tried to engineer the panel to not only work with as many of the early games as possible, but to also accommodate them in a way that stays as true to the original button layout and position as possible.  I went game-for-game, from #1 on down, with full-size printouts of a control panel, buttons and joysticks, and alot of double-sided tape.  Obviously some compromises had to be made, but I tried to keep them to a minimum.  

In addition to the overall guiding philosophy outlined above, here are some other points of note to consider when reviewing (blasting?) this design:
 
1.  With the exception of the trigger flight stick (feedback for which would be greatly appreciated), I opted for leaf joysticks all the way.  I came to realize how significant this choice was when I began the design work--yikes!

2.  I'm not into fighter games.  The typical 7-button layout didn't really seem to address the (sometimes very unusual) button layouts seen in the early years, so I abandoned it altogether and started fresh.  It's a bit different, but seems to work well for oddballs like Defender, Vanguard, and Missile Command.

3.  Since the 4-way stick will likely see the most use, I tried to have it as 'front and center' as possible, thereby enabling either left or right hand play.  

4.  As most of the classic trackball games were right-hand biased, I opted for that positioning.  I'm a lefty myself, but all the years of 'adapting' makes a left-handed trackball feel unnatural.  I leaned away from a centered trackball as I wanted the player's eyeline to be comfortably centered relative to the screen when playing.

5.  I originally wanted the spinner to be right of center (a la Tempest), but the desire for dual 8-way functionality won out.  When I lay my hands on my mock up, it seems as though I can use either the left or right hand with minimal interference.  

6.  I'm sure the dedicated diagonal 4-way will catch some flack, but what the hell--the space was available, and Q*Bert is such a classic game, best played with a diagonally-mounted 4-way leaf.  I don't think the trackball will be too in the way, and I plan to mount the sticks in a way that yields maximum stick height.

7.  Incorporating a steering wheel or flight yoke, while desired, was not high on the list since including them would come at the cost of excluding most everything else.  I think those two items warrant their own dedicated panel.  


And now a couple of questions--

Admin buttons:  not knowing any better, would most people out there concur with Saint's justification for the amount and placement of admin and flipper buttons?

Trigger Flight stick:  I'm hopeful this will serve as a reasonable second 8-way control for dual 8-way games like Black Widow, Robotron, etc.  Feedback?

If you've read this far, I appreciate your interest in my design and welcome your comments and suggestions.  Thanks!  

[Hoagie_one]

your panel frightens me.

[sdrob04]

your panel frightens me.

Uh, can you be more specific?

[Hoagie_one]

im just teasing

im a street fighter guy, so i like the 2 joy, 12 button settup

[NoOne=NBA=]

A few points I would make are:

1) Double check your spinner placement.
I don't think you're going to like the placement of the main 4-way in relation to it.
You are going to have to reach OVER the 4-way to use the spinner.
If you moved it left above the buttons it would be easier to use.

2) I don't think you are going to like the Happ stick as a second stick on games like Robotron.
I personally would add a second 8-way.

3) You really don't need the 45 degree 4-way.
Q*Bert plays really well with an 8-way if you use the AND function in MAME to map the keys.

4) I don't know how important the trackball is to you, but I would opt for a layout like I attached.
That will let you play the two-stick games with two 8-ways, in addition to allowing you to play alot of the two player games.
It also keeps the sticks from interfering with each other.
The only games it would be really not good for are the golf/bowling trackball games where you need to let fly on the ball.

[vader]

NoOne, can you be more specific on mapping the joy for Qbert....I was gonna build a dedicated panel for Qbert, but if there is something esle, I'm all ears....

Tim

Sorry if I jacked your thread  

[rchadd]

A few points I would make are:
The only games it would be really not good for are the golf/bowling trackball games where you need to let fly on the ball.

no way would that work for shuffleshot - you need space to give the ball a good spin

if you have a trackball - you MUST play Shuffleshot !

buttons placements would be also be wierd also for missile command/centipede - to me the buttons should be approximately aligned with your trackball.

[quarterstringer]

Wow, so many controls . I'm assuming that this is a one player control panel. Here's my quick solution.

1. You can use the 4-way with the buttons in the middle for a Defender/Stargate layout that can also be used for Asteroids. But you'll have to hit hyperspace with your right hand. I would try to put the thumb/reverse button as close to the joystick as possible. Even cutting away some of the joystick base if possible.

2. The trackball is now lined up with the left buttons for Missile Command and Centipede type games.

3. Now you have dual 8-ways for Robotron and Smash TV. If you don't need dual 8-ways exchange the right joystick for your diagonal Q-bert joystick.

[Tiger-Heli]

I assume your original design was for a single player panel.  I like NBA = NoOne's revision personally, because it will work for classic two player games (1943, Top Gunner) and places the buttons next to a joystick.  The latter really bothered me about your original design.

I didn't like QuarterStringer's suggestion, personally, but it's your panel.

1.  With the exception of the trigger flight stick (feedback for which would be greatly appreciated), I opted for leaf joysticks all the way.  I came to realize how significant this choice was when I began the design work--yikes!

If you haven't already bought the trigger flight stick, you could save a ton of money (at the expense of authentic feel) by making one of the many hacks that mount a PC joystick handle to an arcade joystick base and shaft.

5.  I originally wanted the spinner to be right of center (a la Tempest), but the desire for dual 8-way functionality won out.  When I lay my hands on my mock up, it seems as though I can use either the left or right hand with minimal interference.

Again, I guess you meant dual 8-way like Robotron, etc.  but again the button placement is ignoring classic 8-way games like Twin Cobra, 1943, etc.  I agree with NBA on the stick placement and don't think any of the trigger sticks would work well as a second eight way.  Trigger Stick games (Gorf, Zaxxon, Afterburner (ok, analog), Tron, DOT, typically used a single trigger stick).  You could maybe get by with a left leaf joy and a right leaf base with trigger handle, but the positioning would be wrong for Tron, etc.  Again, I like NBA's solution.

Admin buttons:  not knowing any better, would most people out there concur with Saint's justification for the amount and placement of admin and flipper buttons?

Errmn, that would be easier to answer if you told me what Saint's ideas were.

My personal opinion - You want Start buttons and Coin buttons or slots for each player.  (I like the idea of using the coin reject buttons as coin buttons).  You need a dedicated pause button.  I personally like a dedicated Escape button.  All other admin buttons are accessed by plugging in a keyboard.

As far as flipper buttons - I plan to have them on my desktop controller, but it might be hard to have them look correct on a cab.  On a cab, I would probably try to get away with using the left-most and right-most panel buttons for these.