need some help from you political people

[Sephroth57]

yeah i dont really follow any of this election stuff... im 20 i dont have time for it =p   im just wondering, where i can register to vote online cause i hear i only have a couple days left


also, has either presidental canidate expressed any opinions on starting the draft? whichever one is against it... im voting for them =)

[GGKoul]

www.howardstern.com

they have a link via the title page so you can register.

[fredster]

Neither one of them are for the draft.

The Dems submitted as a protest a couple of years ago, don't worry about that.

[DrewKaree]

also, has either presidental canidate expressed any opinions on starting the draft? whichever one is against it... im voting for them =)

The Kerry campaign is letting his lackeys from MoveOn.org say that Bush is going to institute it, but Seph, it'd take an act of God for either party to get the draft passed.  

It simply won't happen, and NEITHER party will tell you the truth on this one Seph, so it'll be a non-issue for this election.  

You'd be better off choosing the party that DOESN'T say the other one will institute the draft.  

[TA Pilot]

im just wondering, where i can register to vote online cause i hear i only have a couple days left

Try the library and/or the license bureau


also, has either presidental canidate expressed any opinions on starting the draft? whichever one is against it... im voting for them =)

Bush says there's no need for a draft.
Kerry says he's going to increase the size of the army by ~2 divisions, and says Bush will institute a draft.

[shmokes]

... it'd take an act of God for either party to get the draft passed.  

Read between the lines, Seph.  Which party does the Christian Coalition support?  Hence, if it would take an act of god to pass a draft, that makes Republicans the only party that COULD pass a draft.

That's what a degree in Political Science gave me:   The ability to think critically when it comes to politics (except that I won't actually have a degree for another year)

[Sephroth57]

yeah umm then i dont know who to vote for that was pretty much all i cared about... umm lets see what else would affect me...  i dunno. i just wanna ask who is better.. but then this would turn into a 50 page debate lol.

damn this politics stuff, this is why americas youth doesnt vote. i dont even know anything about either person, yeah sure i could learn it but between my job, having a life , etc. it really doesnt fit in. and im one of those people who will argue to the end, that half the stuff you learn in school has no point in the real world and that the whole "testing" system teaches you nothing... but thats another story


yeah my mom was all like you have to vote for bush cause kerry wants to start the draft, youre prime age blah blah. then my friend is like omg vote for kerry bush wants to draft... its like does anyone know what theyre talking about?? i come on these boards and see all these involved debates... i trust you guys more hehe



yeah and umm... i still dunno who to vote for. if it comes down to election day and i still have no idea ill prolly vote bush just cause hes been in there the last 4 years at least he knows what hes doing.. and hes not really doing a bad job.. besides his military "intelligence" mess up. that and the fact that seeing kerrys face on a regular basis would bother me cause hes just so damn ugly  

[Mameotron]

yeah and umm... i still dunno who to vote for. if it comes down to election day and i still have no idea ill prolly vote bush just cause hes been in there the last 4 years at least he knows what hes doing.. and hes not really doing a bad job.. besides his military "intelligence" mess up. that and the fact that seeing kerrys face on a regular basis would bother me cause hes just so damn ugly  

Ok, I'll come right out and say it.  Vote for Bush.

[Crazy Cooter]

http://www.kare11.com/elections/positions.asp
Here's a 1 page look at where the candidates stand on a few issues.

Don't ever vote for someone because somebody else told you to.  Take an hour a week and do a little research, then come to your own conclusion.  It's just as important to understand the political parties stance on issues as the individual candidates stance.  The President will fill the government body with his friends through appointed positions.  These appointed positions (ie Supreme Court) affect your future as much as anyone else.

Would you buy a car without looking under the hood?  What about a car that has run well for the past 4 years?  You should still look under the hood.  Your vote is just that.  Your vote.  Make it count for the presidential election and your local government.

Watch the debates and pay attention to the answers.  After each, ask yourself "Did the candidate answer the question or dodge it?"  If they dodge it ask yourself why.  If they answer it, ask if it is what you want to hear and if it is important to you.

[DrewKaree]

That's what a degree in Political Science gave me:  

Seph, read between the lines here....he's hoping to use his degree in Poli Sci to start a (democrat) revolution in Utah...change 'em from the inside out.  (Shmokes actually wants to have polygamy become legal in all 52 states...even if you want to marry your dog)    How's THAT for confusing the issue?!?!?

Seph, STOP...DON'T CLICK COOTER'S LINK....Instead, go to his thread about "vote undecided?  Reference material here" thread to see MUCH better info, and why I believe his link, while well-intentioned, will do nothing to inform you, and could hurt you, IN EITHER DIRECTION.  If you didn't see the link, here's the thread url:  http://www.arcadecontrols.org/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=25236

I found that when I was younger, politics didn't seem to even relate to me.  When I got married and found a few kids running around the house, and less money in my check, and guys on TV saying they could get me more, I got interested real quick.

It may not seem like it right now, but eventually, you WILL make more money, you MIGHT get married, you MIGHT have kids....even if only ONE of those things happens, it is STILL independent of the others...and there are far more reasons your vote will matter.  The direction you help to steer the country in TODAY may make a HUGE difference when it matters more to you...and each election will matter more and more to you the closer you get to retirement!

Seph, YOU matter, because you have the right to vote.  Make sure you go to your local office of the State Election Board (don't follow some stupid link from Howard Stern or sign up at some "Voter registration program" shindig) and ensure you are LEGALLY registered.  Any other way you choose to register CAN BE TAMPERED WITH BY EITHER PARTY, and HAS been done to others in the past.  It shouldn't take anything more than your Drivers License, and a few minutes of your time.  To have you register and vote....it's worth it to me, shmokes, MrC, fredster, Dartful Dodger, TA Pilot, ANYONE on this board from the U.S.  Exercise your right.

[shmokes]

Seph,

All kidding aside, why don't you go to this website and take the five minute quiz.  It's not an exact science, but it's pretty fair and it will do a much better and more objective job at telling you where you stand than any of us will.  The test just makes simple statements like, "Gay marriage should not be legal."  And then you mark whether you Strongly Disagree, Disagree, Agree, or Strongly Agree.  At the end it will show you on an easy to read graph how your political beliefs compare with various politicians including Kerry and Bush.  Anyway, here's the site:

www.politicalcompass.org   (click the link, then click "Take the test" in the upper left corner)

It's more complicated than how much money you have.  There's no question that the rich get taxed less when republicans are in control.  But just because you will one day be rich doesn't mean you will want to join the club.  The richest man in the world is a registered democrat.  Hell, Kerry and his wife are worth about a half-billion dollars.  The richest district in America, California's 14th, has a median income of $92,000 a year and they overwhelmingly voted for Gore in the 2000 election.  The poorest, Kentucky's 5th, has a median income of $26,000 and they overwhelmingly voted for Bush.  And most democrats would argue that the middle class are also much better off under democratic control.  I would imagine that Republicans believe otherwise.  It's too complicated and personal for any of us here to be worth trusting unless you could one-on-one with someone for a while, and even then, would we really be trying to help you understand what your positions are, or would we just be trying to make sure you stand on OUR side?  Check the site out.  It's quick and painless, and I really don't think the people who run it have any partisan agenda.

[fredster]

Shef,

Shmokes is right.  You have to see what you think is right.  Look through the democratic website and the republican offical website and look up the party platform.  It states what each party plans to do if elected.

We have these 50 page debates because we are arguing the issues. It's our way of expression.

No way do we all agree on ALL the issues.  But we have two choices for president.  Look at both and vote.

That way you can say I voted for him, or what an sob, I didn't vote for him, etc.  You have a stake in the election the same as the rest of us. One day you can write a 50 pager if it so interests you.

Listen to your mother and your friends and then look up the info.  

Where are the offical positions posted anyway folks?

[shmokes]

Also, if you decide to do any research, watch out for valence issues.  Those are nice sounding issues that are really not issues at all.  Like a candidate who says:

"Vote for me.  I'm the candidate for a strong economy, better education and I will make this country safe against terrorists."

Implying, of course, that he is running against the candidate that is for a weak economy, worse education and a vulnerable country.  Obviously this is not the case.

Look for real issues, that actually have two sides.  For example, someone wanting to reinstate the draft would be a real issue (neither Kerry nor Bush have indicated that this is a possibility -- and even if they wanted it, it would never get through congress).  

A major issue for me this election is the fact that the winner of this election will likely get to replace Sandra Day O'Conner on the Supreme Court.  As you may not be aware the Supreme Court is currently made up of 5 conservatives and 4 liberals, but Sandra Day O'Conner, who is very conservative, actually votes with the liberals on most abortion issues.  Currently she has cancer and wants to retire.  If she retires and Bush is in office she will be replaced by another conservative, but almost certainly one who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade (the case that made abortion legal in America in the 70's).  If you are strongly pro-life/anti-abortion, this would be a good reason to vote for Bush because there's a real possibility that he'll succeed in criminalizing abortion.  If you are strongly pro-choice this would be a good reason to vote for Kerry because he would surely appoint someone who would not vote to overturn Roe.

Oh...one more important thing:  if you know/care about anyone who is not a rich, white male (or if you yourself are not a rich, white male) you should vote for Kerry, because Republicans are evil    (I couldn't help it...all this non-partisan stuff is making me crazy).  Look:  Out of 230 republican congressmen in the house only two are not white (both of those are hispanic), and only 9 are female.  Out of the 205 democrats (note that they even have 25 fewer total members than the republicans right now) 28 are not white (18 black, 8 hispanic, and 2 other) and 19 are female.  Frankly both parties have far less diversity than they should have...but the republicans have virtually no diversity.  This is not a coincidence.  

[DrewKaree]

What's the ratio in the House of Representatives?

Just wondering.

[shmokes]

Out of 230 republican congressmen in the house

That is the house of representatives.  

You don't think that the Republicans have 230 members in the Senate do you?  

[DrewKaree]

Out of 230 republican congressmen in the house

That is the house of representatives.  

You don't think that the Republicans have 230 members in the Senate do you?  

GOD I should be committed....sir, I'd like an evening jacket...something in white....maybe buckles up the back, arms cross in front?

[shmokes]

LOL....I knew it was an uncharacteristic blunder.

I don't have the exact break-down handy, but the Senate historically has been less demographically representative than the House.  There are currently 14 women total and all 100 senators are white.  After this election there will be at least one black senator from illinois (and I don't mean Alan Keyes).

[danny_galaga]

"Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever HE shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so, WHENEVER HE MAY CHOOSE TO SAY he deems it necessary for such a purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix ANY LIMIT to his power in this respect, after you have given him so much as you propose. If, today, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, "I see no probability of the British invading us" but he will say to you "be silent; I see it, if you don't."  

"The provision of the Constitution giving the war-making power to Congress, was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons. Kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This, our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that NO ONE MAN should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us. But your view destroys the whole matter, and places our President where kings have always stood."

the world needs you, honest Abe.

[DrewKaree]

LOL....I knew it was an uncharacteristic blunder.

you're not supposed to suck up to me when I make mistakes.  We're opposites, remember?  I attack you, you attack me....we don't get along unless massive quantities of alcohol are consumed, which may or may not actually exacerbate the problems dividing us.

per the political hack handbook, page 712, paragraph 5, subsection b.

now where was I?  oh yeah

I'm right, you suck.  nener nener boo boo  

[DrewKaree]

"Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever HE shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so, WHENEVER HE MAY CHOOSE TO SAY he deems it necessary for such a purpose - and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix ANY LIMIT to his power in this respect, after you have given him so much as you propose. If, today, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, "I see no probability of the British invading us" but he will say to you "be silent; I see it, if you don't."  

"The provision of the Constitution giving the war-making power to Congress, was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons. Kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This, our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that NO ONE MAN should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us. But your view destroys the whole matter, and places our President where kings have always stood."

the world needs you, honest Abe.

danny, I think we all see where you're angling with this post.  The problem is, Ol' Abe's process is the way we went about it.  So if you feel the world needs him back, then you are saying you agree with the process and where it's led us to currently, right?

[danny_galaga]

danny, I think we all see where you're angling with this post.  The problem is, Ol' Abe's process is the way we went about it.  So if you feel the world needs him back, then you are saying you agree with the process and where it's led us to currently, right?

damn that deja vu, shouldn't have taken them trips back in the sixties...  
 
 
 

[Nailz]

yeah umm then i dont know who to vote for that was pretty much all i cared about... umm lets see what else would affect me...  i dunno. i just wanna ask who is better.. but then this would turn into a 50 page debate lol.

damn this politics stuff, this is why americas youth doesnt vote. i dont even know anything about either person, yeah sure i could learn it but between my job, having a life , etc. it really doesnt fit in. and im one of those people who will argue to the end, that half the stuff you learn in school has no point in the real world and that the whole "testing" system teaches you nothing... but thats another story


yeah my mom was all like you have to vote for bush cause kerry wants to start the draft, youre prime age blah blah. then my friend is like omg vote for kerry bush wants to draft... its like does anyone know what theyre talking about?? i come on these boards and see all these involved debates... i trust you guys more hehe



yeah and umm... i still dunno who to vote for. if it comes down to election day and i still have no idea ill prolly vote bush just cause hes been in there the last 4 years at least he knows what hes doing.. and hes not really doing a bad job.. besides his military "intelligence" mess up. that and the fact that seeing kerrys face on a regular basis would bother me cause hes just so damn ugly  

Don't take this the wrong way, but maybe you shouldn't vote.  If you don't have 10 minutes to research on the candidates and see what they each represent on the draft, or whatever, sounds like a bad idea to me.  Don't let someone else tell you who to vote for because Bush says this or Kerry says this, form your own opinion.

The fact that you are ready to vote for one over the other on the issue of a draft, which no one is recommending, makes me really proud that you're an American.  Do some homework and then come back and make a big boy post about some of this stuff.

[Sephroth57]

umm get off your high horse there. do you know how many people my age i know who didnt even bother to register? im sure when you were 20 you were watching presidential debates and wondering who to vote for  

and so what, i would base my vote on an issue i was concerned about, isnt that was everyone does but with multiple issues? and of course you wont like everything one canidate is going for, but you have to pick what you think is more important... but anyway i found your reply totally useless unlike the other good replies and help ive had from other people on here.

[Mameotron]

Seph, YOU matter, because you have the right to vote.  Make sure you go to your local office of the State Election Board (don't follow some stupid link from Howard Stern or sign up at some "Voter registration program" shindig) and ensure you are LEGALLY registered.  Any other way you choose to register CAN BE TAMPERED WITH BY EITHER PARTY, and HAS been done to others in the past.  

Well said.  We have enough voting scams where I live (the latest local election scam:  Look! 3 months after the election, we "found" several thousand votes that were not counted!  Someone "accidentally" left them in a closet!).  Registering anywhere but the local county board of elections is a bad idea.

Edit: or BMV, the state regulates that pretty tightly.

[Nailz]

umm get off your high horse there. do you know how many people my age i know who didnt even bother to register? im sure when you were 20 you were watching presidential debates and wondering who to vote for  

and so what, i would base my vote on an issue i was concerned about, isnt that was everyone does but with multiple issues? and of course you wont like everything one canidate is going for, but you have to pick what you think is more important... but anyway i found your reply totally useless unlike the other good replies and help ive had from other people on here.

Ummm, you know what?  I was watching when I was 20, because I was in the Army, and I cared who my next boss was going to be.  Just because you are 20, you think you have the excuse to not care about what's going on?

You think my reply was useless, because unfortunately at this point in your life your attitude is useless.

Grow up and ask some important questions and i'll be glad to help you through the process.

[shmokes]

Nailz,

I can see that you've got good intentions, but you're way off-mark here.  Politics is huge and discouraging.  The average person does not even know how a bill moves through the legislature (particularly with regards to committees and committee chairs) to be signed into law or vetoed by the President.  You disparage Sephroth for what appears to you to be a lack of civic responsibility, but what I see is someone who has never been encouraged to participate in politics and is for the first time in his life developing an interest in it of his own accord.  That's impressive in my opinion.

But at the same time, when someone who doesn't have access to an American Government 101 class suddenly decides to take an interest in politics there is no clear road to understanding the nuances of our political system.  There is an enormous amount of interrelated information and material out there to sort through.  Sephroth has seen many in depth political discussions on the arcade message board.  It's a message board he belongs to.  He has a lot of non-political common ground with many members of the board.  It's a no-brainer starting point for him to come here and ask for some guideance.  

For evidence of his idea being a good one, read the thread.  There's been a lot of good advice (mixed in with plenty of parisanship, to be sure -- not to mention one person telling him to essentially stay the hell out of politics altogether ).

But encouraging him to not vote, as you have, only discourages him from ever participating in politics.  When I was 18, for example, I didn't know the first thing about politics.  My vote was informed 100% by who my parents voted for.  Sure, a more informed vote is desireable, but as I participated in each election I came to know more and more about how things worked and became more and more interested in politics.  I started developing my own ideas (which are pretty much the opposite of my parent's, BTW) and now, at 26 I consider myself a fairly well-informed voter.  It's gotta start somewhere, though.

[DrewKaree]

GOOD POINTS EXPRESSED BY SHMOKES

...but what I see is someone who has never been encouraged to participate in politics and is for the first time in his life developing an interest in it of his own accord.  That's impressive in my opinion.


But at the same time, when someone who doesn't have access to an American Government 101 class suddenly decides to take an interest in politics there is no clear road to understanding the nuances of our political system.  There is an enormous amount of interrelated information and material out there to sort through.  Sephroth has seen many in depth political discussions on the arcade message board.  It's a message board he belongs to.  He has a lot of non-political common ground with many members of the board.  It's a no-brainer starting point for him to come here and ask for some guideance.  

Sure, a more informed vote is desireable, but as I participated in each election I came to know more and more about how things worked and became more and more interested in politics.  I started developing my own ideas


It's gotta start somewhere, though.

Now why can't you just be a stereotypical tree-huggin' frog lickin' dirt eatin' commie liberal?    It'd be so much easier to just dismiss you if you were more irrational instead of going and making posts that I agree with.  

You suck. _{kind of}

[shmokes]

Don't flatter yourself Drew.  You find yourself agreeing with me so often lately because all of your positions are indefensible, LOL.  I'm as liberal as they come!!!

 

[DrewKaree]

Don't flatter yourself Drew.  You find yourself agreeing with me so often lately because all of your positions are indefensible, LOL.  I'm as liberal as they come!!!

 

THEY ARE NOT INDEFENSIBLE!  Wait...what's the answer I'm supposed to give?  

Doesn't matter....In real life, discussions that we have don't ever continue...one person HAS to leave, and at least you and I can always fall back on "Frankenpanels are great on a mint condition Centipede" or some other such nonsense.  

You may be as liberal as they come, but you have a sense of humor about yourself and don't seem to take yourself too seriously, either.  I admire that.  It's hard to find someone willing to poke fun at themselves when discussing serious subjects, just to lighten the mood.

   

*insert Bud Light Man voice*
I love you man!  

[shmokes]

Careful Drew....empathy is the gateway drug.  First I get you seeing things my way on the little things.

Pretty soon you find yourself desperately needing your daily liberal fix.  

Before you know it you're having Tofurkey for Thanksgiving.


MWAAAAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

...now if only I can manage to turn you before the 2nd rather than the 25th of November....

p.s.  INDEFENSIBLE

[danny_galaga]

Before you know it you're having Tofurkey for Thanksgiving.

MWAAAAAAAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

i've heard you guys have Turducken. is this true? i also heard the south africans go one further and stuff all that into an ostrich for that Ostraturducken goodness...