Main Restorations Software Audio/Jukebox/MP3 Everything Else Buy/Sell/Trade
Project Announcements Monitor/Video GroovyMAME Merit/JVL Touchscreen Meet Up Retail Vendors
Driving & Racing Woodworking Software Support Forums Consoles Project Arcade Reviews
Automated Projects Artwork Frontend Support Forums Pinball Forum Discussion Old Boards
Raspberry Pi & Dev Board controls.dat Linux Miscellaneous Arcade Wiki Discussion Old Archives
Lightguns Arcade1Up Try the site in https mode Site News

Unread posts | New Replies | Recent posts | Rules | Chatroom | Wiki | File Repository | RSS | Submit news

  

Author Topic: computer problem>>> WTF  (Read 4765 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

SNAAAKE

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3147
  • Last login:July 21, 2004, 03:44:18 am
  • Banned for abusive postings.
computer problem>>> WTF
« on: September 08, 2002, 03:38:08 pm »
 :'( :'( :'(

my computer just died last night..i had windows 98 in there and the motherboard is 830 LR pc chip with athlon xp 1800.

now question is that there is not display anymore.in my monitor it says "check signal".now i checked agp slot and the card is working.i tried the same card on other computer and works.
fan in running and everything turns on.

i tried to clear cmos jumper and still not display.

all i want to know is that which is not working,

motherboard or the cpu....

i wanna order a new one but not sure which is not working..

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELPPPPPPPPPP ??? :'( ??? :'(.

anyone has any clue..please reply or tell if i am forgeting somethin here.

i built several computers before so its not a first time thing(ya know the things you dont know first time around then you figure out later).

ANYONE,EVERYONE,help.

lot of thanks to anyone who can come up with any clue ever.


Mikee0

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19
  • Last login:August 13, 2004, 05:35:46 pm
  • Do I not look like Jean Chretien?!
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2002, 04:42:42 pm »
I had a MSI KT333 w/950 duron and Power supply go on me last week.   I would try another power supply other, other than that I dont know.

I thought it was my video card or AGP too but the card works fine.    

I threw the suspected Power supply in my other athalon and sure it enought the girlfriend said it rebooted every 20 min or so.  

Also I'm computer whiz so don't take my word for it.

I just returned mine today as it is still under warranty so hopefully I can get my cab up and running soon.

Hope that helps

Davestar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
  • Last login:August 31, 2013, 01:55:36 pm
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2002, 05:00:31 pm »
Does the thing boot at all?  You can usually tell by the hard drive if you get the clicking startup.  If so, have you tried booting it in safe mode at 640X480?  
A suggestion may be if it seems to boot, maybe you can get your hands on a PCI video card, anyone will do.  Drop it into test out if its the Agp slot or the cpu.  
If I was to guess, I would think it is either the slot, or the card, not the whole board.
Do you have the speaker hooked up.  My computer also does something strange, it kinda hangs when I turn it on sometimes.  I have to turn it off and turn it back on.  I know it is gonna work when the pc speaker beeps during startup.
Don't know how much this will help.
--Dave

1UP

  • Token Junkie
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2081
  • Last login:November 11, 2014, 01:37:18 am
  • Yes, that is a joystick in my pocket.
    • 1UPArcade
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2002, 05:08:45 pm »
I had a similar prob.  Everything seemed to power up (fans came on, the power led lit up,) but no beep, and nothing on my monitor.  I spent the next day and a half taking my machine apart, piece by piece to figure what the prob was.

Finally, I took it to Fry's to have someone look at it.  He just reset the Bios jumper (which I had already done) AND he flipped the voltage selector switch (on the back of the power supply near the power cord) from 115 to 230 or whatever, then back to 115.  It booted right up after that!  He said the switch is like a breaker, and sometimes it needs to be reset.  I dunno, just try it and see if it works before you replace your power supply.

Free resource for building your own rotating control panels!

My other job...


slug54

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 225
  • Last login:June 12, 2014, 09:00:21 pm
  • Man, I hope this cab fits through the door way!
    • Arcade Extreme
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2002, 05:15:01 pm »
Snaaake, remove any un-needed cards from the system and test it, sound card,nic, modem etc.

Remove the video card and power it up, if you get error beeps the MB & CPU are at least partially working.

Try the same for the memory, If you get error beeps now
but didn't after previous step its' probably a fried Dimm.

Now unplug the cables both power and data to any HDD's
Cd-ROM's or other drives. Sometimes a drive will fry and hold down the power supply or MB.

I am more familiar with Intel MB's , does this MB have diagnostic LED's? or does it have an led that is usualy lit
under normal operation?

You should unplug the power supply for 5 minutes then plug it back in, Some atx supplies will shutdown to protect themselves if they get power fluctuations and it takes a few minutes unpluged for them to reset.

If you have access to a meter check the supply voltages.

What are your exact symptoms? are you getting a power light? No video at all?

If it comes down to a guess between mb & CPU I would say the MB's bad. CPU's don't go bad that often Unless it's Lightning damage, Static from handeling or the chip is being over clocked or installed in a MB with the incorect voltage or bus configuration.

                       Good luck
                        Slug54





SNAAAKE

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3147
  • Last login:July 21, 2004, 03:44:18 am
  • Banned for abusive postings.
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2002, 02:05:30 am »
i will be trying everything i can for now...i will post how it turns out tomorrow..thanks for all the help people. :)


SNAAAKE

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3147
  • Last login:July 21, 2004, 03:44:18 am
  • Banned for abusive postings.
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2002, 03:39:00 am »
MAN..this suck so bad..

the cpu is _ucked >:(

how i know?

because my brother has a 800 MHz cpu in his computer and i tried that with my board and works.

now my last question is..

how good are duron cpus compared to athlon xp.

i am using 700 mhz duron on my reguler pc usage computer.it works great but what the difference between durons and athlon xpS.there is a price difference so what is the big deal with durons anyways.

i know this question is very stupid but anyone has any clue.please post.thanks  :)



« Last Edit: September 09, 2002, 03:44:30 am by SNAAAKE »

SirPoonga

  • Puck'em Up
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8188
  • Last login:July 20, 2025, 03:37:24 pm
  • The Bears Still Suck!
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2002, 04:35:27 am »
duron is a knocked down version of the athlon.  It's like celeron to pentium.  duron is meant to compete against the celeron.

If it isyour mobo or proc going bad it should ahve a warranty???

Davestar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
  • Last login:August 31, 2013, 01:55:36 pm
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2002, 08:37:08 am »
I believe the Durons use a 200mhz front side bus, where the most the late Thunderbirds and XPs use 266mhz front side bus.  Also, for some reason I think I remember there may be more on chip cache memory making the Athlons and XPs faster (more instructions per cycle)than equivelent speed Durons.
If I were you I'd consider three different chips

Duron 1.2Ghz-$38,1.3Ghz-$45
Athlon Tbird 1.4Ghz-$56
Athlon Xp+ 1600-$57

All prices from http:/www.tcwo.com .  They're typically close to the lowest, and they have 3 day fedex shipping for $3.95 .  I'm no way affiliated with TCWO, however I have ordered from them and they did a good job for me.

Oh yeah, I'd also check for Bios updates for the board before putting any new chips in it.  I know you had an 1800 Mhz unit in it before, so it should be good to go, and PC Chips isn't the best for bios updates, but I'd give it a shot.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2002, 08:38:50 am by Davestar »
--Dave

Yarb

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
  • Last login:December 26, 2019, 01:18:30 pm
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2002, 11:30:55 am »
Snaaake

How old is your processor and was it overclocked. If it wasn't overclocked it may be under warranty. My XP2000 came with a 3 year from Athlon but it was packaged OEM (others were on BO at the time). I'm not sure if that warranty was for OEM packaged Processors only. Also was your system set to shut down on CPU overheat? I've heard a XP will die in under 5 seconds if the fan fails.

Yarb

SNAAAKE

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3147
  • Last login:July 21, 2004, 03:44:18 am
  • Banned for abusive postings.
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2002, 02:30:56 pm »
you are right yarb...

it did die on me.i remember somethin happend..fan was still running.

also,it wasnt over clocked  :(

you think the cpu is gone forever?

like its totally burned?
on the MB chipset,it says "DDR266"

now another question is,is it possible that i use t-bird 1.4 ghz on this MB.

t-bird cpu is socket A right?

just like duron and athlon xp right?

this board supports 266 mhz fsb so 200fsb cpu should be no problem right?

someone please make things little bit clear.thanks for all the help  :)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2002, 02:46:08 pm by SNAAAKE »

SNAAAKE

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3147
  • Last login:July 21, 2004, 03:44:18 am
  • Banned for abusive postings.
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2002, 02:36:00 pm »
Oh yeah, I'd also check for Bios updates for the board before putting any new chips in it.  I know you had an 1800 Mhz unit in it before, so it should be good to go, and PC Chips isn't the best for bios updates, but I'd give it a shot.

how exactly look for bios update again?i am not very sure.i built several computers before but nothing powerfull.

it was athon xp 1800/1.5 ghz.

so how exactly the bios update works.thanks for all the help. :)

also will the generic fan do the trick?the one i got now.or get somthin better?

any clue people  ???
« Last Edit: September 09, 2002, 02:43:12 pm by SNAAAKE »

Davestar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
  • Last login:August 31, 2013, 01:55:36 pm
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2002, 02:55:11 pm »
To check your bios, you would need to go to the motherboards manufacturing website, and compare version numbers.   The latest Bios version for your board looks like 020809.  I think PC chips typically uses versions so that this would be 8.09, but I could be wrong.  
To update your bios typically you make a boot disk, and uses the bios updating utility for your bios, along with the newest rom image of the bios.  All this information for your board is at http://www.pcchips.com/index2.html under the bios tag.

If I had to guess, I would guess you'd be ok for using an Athlon 1.4 without a bios update as you already had a 266fsb chip inserted and it worked.  Could be though that there are updates to make the chips work better/faster/more compatible.

As for heat sinks, I here the heat pipes are the best, copper baseplates etc.  They are expensive though $35 a piece.  I would just use a typically heat sink approved by AMD for whatever processor you get.  Your usually covered then.
--Dave

SNAAAKE

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3147
  • Last login:July 21, 2004, 03:44:18 am
  • Banned for abusive postings.
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2002, 04:18:33 pm »
hmm...
yeah but generic fan would still work right...

just wanted to know since many people use generic so why should i buy $35 fan...is there a big big difference...

what do you use?

Davestar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
  • Last login:August 31, 2013, 01:55:36 pm
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2002, 04:24:45 pm »
From the same place I recommended cpus, I would use this http://www.tcwo.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=1249&sid=1gi2Ty0WgMNb2MW . Its $8 for the cooler and the fan assembly, and it is approved by AMD for everything up to an XP+1900, and should work fine for your application.
--Dave

SNAAAKE

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3147
  • Last login:July 21, 2004, 03:44:18 am
  • Banned for abusive postings.
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2002, 05:50:09 pm »
okay so i am ordering that fan and t-bird 1.4 ghz cpu...everything should be okay right?

i willl post when i get the damn cpu and get it to work...

1UP

  • Token Junkie
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2081
  • Last login:November 11, 2014, 01:37:18 am
  • Yes, that is a joystick in my pocket.
    • 1UPArcade
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2002, 06:13:40 pm »
BTW, from what I've heard, Durons and Celerons are basically defective Athlons and Pentiums.  Apparently, they were throwing out a lot of processors during QC because certain procs didn't meet their benchmarks--they worked, but not quite as well as they were supposed to.  So they came up with Duron/Celeron and now all the rejects are being sold to cheap buyers.  If you don't mind having AMD's or IBM's rejects in your machine, I guess that's the way to go...  :P

Free resource for building your own rotating control panels!

My other job...


rampy

  • *shrug*
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2910
  • Last login:March 02, 2007, 11:32:16 am
  • ...as useless as a JPG is to Helen Keller
    • Build Your Own PVR
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2002, 08:29:45 pm »

BTW, from what I've heard, Durons and Celerons are basically defective Athlons and Pentiums.  Apparently, they were throwing out a lot of processors during QC because certain procs didn't meet their benchmarks--they worked, but not quite as well as they were supposed to.  So they came up with Duron/Celeron and now all the rejects are being sold to cheap buyers.  If you don't mind having AMD's or IBM's rejects in your machine, I guess that's the way to go...  :P


I don't believe that to be a true or accurate statement.  I'm not going to instigate a cpu/hardware flame war... so I'll leave it at that...(well let me add the following =P  +

Celeron's used to be a very viable value purchase (from a price/performance POV)... but now a days, unless you are an intel fanboy, a new AMD XP chip is both less expensive and provides comprable excellent performance (so you wouldn't need to get a P4 lite celeron or even an AMD lite duron).

I use a P4 1.7 ghz at work and like it fine... but when I bought a chip and mobo for home and it's on my dime... I feel I got the most bang for buck with an AMD XP processor...

YMMV

Rampy

SNAAAKE

  • -Banned-
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3147
  • Last login:July 21, 2004, 03:44:18 am
  • Banned for abusive postings.
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2002, 11:44:49 pm »
the defective statement is totally wrong :P

i use duron 700 mhz on my regular computer and works great.besides when i am buying duron/celeron cpuS,they are selling as NEW.

but there is a difference i guess.there is no way to tell if i am using for mame..because a duron 1.3 ghz would be as good as xp 1.3

but personally i am trying t-bird 1.4 GHz for now and a good fan.i dont believe athlon xp just died on me for nothin. >:(

SirPoonga

  • Puck'em Up
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8188
  • Last login:July 20, 2025, 03:37:24 pm
  • The Bears Still Suck!
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2002, 12:35:23 am »

BTW, from what I've heard, Durons and Celerons are basically defective Athlons and Pentiums.  


That is absolutely wrong.
Celerons came about because intel wanted to amke a really cheap proccessor.  The first celerons (ht elatest ones are different) had something taken out of them to make them cheaper to produce.  And what was taken out of them (I don;t remember) also made it possible to extremely overclock them.  I hav ea dual cely system that is extremely overclocked.

1UP

  • Token Junkie
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2081
  • Last login:November 11, 2014, 01:37:18 am
  • Yes, that is a joystick in my pocket.
    • 1UPArcade
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2002, 12:49:13 am »
OT, but you asked for it.  From around the web:

"It's really a marketing stroke of genius when you think about it.  Produce one type of CPU.  Take the best ones, add 512 kb of fast, expensive cache and sell it as the top-of-the-line CPU for $700+.   Take the rejects, leave off the expensive L2 cache and sell them as cheap Celerons.  Except they're too smart for their own britches.  The production yield of 450 MHz cores is too good and the "rejects" are too few and far between.  Because they want to flood the market with $100 CPU's, they have to mark them as 266 to 333 MHz Celerons and sell them cheap anyway.  It doesn't cost them any more since both chips came off the same production line.  Because the P2-450 market is relatively small compared to the low- and mid priced market, the demand is greater for Celerons."

"So what is the difference between a Coppermine and a Celeron? Apparently, based on the article in www.overclockers.com.tw, a Celeron just has half the cache disabled via a control line. I don't exactly know how they disable it, but let's assume they cut a circuit line.

Wouldn't this be hard for Intel to do? Not at all. All Intel needs is some robo-rabbi to cut the control line and circumcize Coppermines into Celerons. That shouldn't be a big deal at all. If Intel needs more Coppermines, they just give Robo-Rabbi a break. If they need more Celerons? Put him on overtime."

"Celeron is sort of a Pentium II Lite -- a Pentium II processor without the on-board L2 cache that is crucial to its performance.  Celeron is no barn-burner: When we tested a 266-MHz Celeron system, it turned in overall performance results slower than a comparably equipped 233-MHz Pentium -- not Pentium II -- PC. The absence of a secondary processor cache hurts Celeron badly."

So there you have it.  Celerons are basically Pentiums with the cache disabled or crippled, which makes them much slower for certain applications.  No one ever believes me...  >:(

« Last Edit: September 10, 2002, 12:50:59 am by 1UP »

Free resource for building your own rotating control panels!

My other job...


u_rebelscum

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3633
  • Last login:April 21, 2010, 03:06:26 pm
  • You rebel scum
    • Mame:Analog+
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2002, 05:50:07 am »
Celerons are basically Pentiums with the cache disabled or crippled, which makes them much slower for certain applications.  No one ever believes me...  >:(


I do, kinda:

specs-wise: celeron was a pIII with less L2 cache
specs-wise: duron is an athlon with less L2 cache

Some celerons are pIIIs with one bad cache line, others are pIII's with two good cache lines but one disabled as you quoted, but the newest top-of-the-line celerons are pIII's since the celeron now has the same size L2 cache as the pIII, and Intel has stopped making marketing the pIIIs, replaced by the p4s.  The pIIIs out there now are the ones still in the pipeline or in warehouses.  The celeron and pIII were the exact same size, even though Intel could have made the celeron smaller (due to the smaller cache).  A smaller celeron would have meant more chips per disk, and if the celeron was different than the pIII, Intel was stupid to waste the expensive silicon by not making the celerons smaller.

Now, as for Durons and Athlons, almost all durons were not athlons, unlike the cerelon/pIII.  The duron chip is smaller size than the Athlon, and made at the older factory, while the Athlons are made at the new factory.  However, not to waste an almost perfectly good athlon chip (except for part of the L2 cache), AMD also sold these as durons if they worked fine as a duron.  However, this was a very small fraction of the durons, unlike Intel and the celeron.

However, to say the celeron is a "crippled" pIII is like saying a person 6 foot tall a crippled person because he can't go again a professional basketball player (most of the time).

It's more like saying a V-12 engine is a 6 banger if six of the pistons were broken/removed.  Not full power, but probably could still outrace a 3 cylinder colt. ;D
Robin
Knowledge is Power

rampy

  • *shrug*
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2910
  • Last login:March 02, 2007, 11:32:16 am
  • ...as useless as a JPG is to Helen Keller
    • Build Your Own PVR
Re:computer problem>>> WTF
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2002, 09:57:50 am »
A lot of this is semantics and syntax... just to clarify what I took issue with is the orginal statement that celerons and durons were "rejects" rebranded as lower cost processors

(although from a certain pov that is true... but it goes for all lines of intel processors... if a certain batch of silicon doesn't clock up, i'm sure they lower the mhz and brand them as the lower Mhz version )

In order to flood the low end market with cheap chips, more often than naught the opposite was true... better chips would be marked as lower clock speeds to compete with AMD's offerings... That's why you get such gems back in the day as a celery 300@450 or 366@550 (which is what I'm running in my cab)

They did/do cripple the lower cost processors in certain ways... going back to the older PII days they would run celerons at 66FSB and the true pII's would be lower multiplier with FSB at 100mhz... but it really ended up being more of a marketing move... where people that didn't know any better would pay a premium for COMPRABLE performance just to get a "full" pentium II as opposed to a celeron...

Anyways... it's all good nowadays... you can pretty much pick up any recent AMD or intel (celeron or duron) and get enough HP for most normal tasks (except uber elite gaming - or mame v.75 )

BTW for hw stuff I really like http://www.tomshardware.com for the straight dope...

So in summary my points... Celeron/duron slightly crippled NOT rejects... usually a good VALUE for price performance (usually... not always)....  Unless you're a super gamer/user you can do well with Celerons/Durons... (but actually now a days  the AMD XP+ is a cheapo champ IMHO)

looks like urebelscum has some additional technical data/clarifcations above too.. .that I haven't read yet...

*SHRUG*  YMMV
Rampy