Building a "Mini-itx" Computer... some questions

[javeryh]

Has anyone done this before to run mame on?  I am in the planning/purchasing phase for my mini-cab.  I am looking for a small computer to fit in the cab and I was directed to their website

[Witchboard]

1.  You will not need to solder anything.
2.  Memory would depend on what OS you plan to install.
3.  You can get any IDE hard drive you want.
4.  You don't.  Attatch a CD/DVD drive.

[crashwg]

4.  You don't.  Attatch a CD/DVD drive.

You don't need a optical drive for day to day operations of a mame computer, just for install.  If you already have a computer with a cd/dvd drive in it you can just borrow it for the install and replace it back in the donor when you're done.

[Bgnome]

for a neat spacesaver, i have heard of people being able to boot off of compactflash cards and the like by using an IDE adapter and an OS with a low overhead, like DOS or linux..

[markb]

I would set up the operating system using a CD drive then remove it if space is a big issue.

If the Mobo has a Lan socket then there is a potential to transfer any further software on to it using that.

[javeryh]

1.  You will not need to solder anything.
2.  Memory would depend on what OS you plan to install.
3.  You can get any IDE hard drive you want.
4.  You don't.  Attatch a CD/DVD drive.

1.  Sweet!  
2.  I guess I will be installing Windows XP - can it be installed on 2 computers I own or is that a no-no these days?
3.  Any recommendations?
4.  OK I guess I will...

Hopefully everything is self explanatory once I have all the parts in front of me...  THANKS!

[Witchboard]

1.  You will not need to solder anything.
2.  Memory would depend on what OS you plan to install.
3.  You can get any IDE hard drive you want.
4.  You don't.  Attatch a CD/DVD drive.

1.  Sweet!  
2.  I guess I will be installing Windows XP - can it be installed on 2 computers I own or is that a no-no these days?
3.  Any recommendations?
4.  OK I guess I will...

Hopefully everything is self explanatory once I have all the parts in front of me...  THANKS!

2.  I would recommend 512MB then.  I don't know about XP.  I don't run it.
3.  It doesn't really matter.  Whatever you have.
4.  Just like the other guys said.  If you're going to be placing it in a confined area and need space then remove after install.  If you're not, then just put a CD drive on it and be done.

[Tahnok]

Or you can put the hard drive into a computer that has either the files that you need or a CD-Rom drive. If it is the same computer that you burned the MAME disk at you can just transfer the files directly and skip the CD-Rom. This is the way that I always update computers that don't have CD-Rom drives.

[Tailgunner]

2.  I guess I will be installing Windows XP - can it be installed on 2 computers I own or is that a no-no these days?

According to the EULA, you can install XP on your home system and a laptop. You'd have to call to get another code to go this route. On the other hand, Microsoft only keeps XP activation info for 90 days. If you haven't authorized your current XP install in the last 3 months, you can reuse the disk and reg code without a problem.

[EndTwist]

To tell you the truth, no one (IMHO) actually cares whether or not you have XP on multiple PCs other than Microsoft (I'm not even sure they care...).

[Jakobud]

I'll be interested to see what sort of benchmarks and game quality/speed you get with one of those boards.  I have always had my eye on them for the past couple years for Mame, but was always concerned with their lack of speed.  I dunno.

[javeryh]

I was looking at the VIA EPIA Nehemiah M10000 - it runs at 1Ghz.  Isn't this enough to run most current mame games?  I am not sold on any one computer yet - I just want it to be small enough to fit inside my bartop cab...  It's going to be roughly 16"W x 15"D x 18"H... I'm having trouble finding a suitable monitor too... I feel like that is going to be the driving force behind the dimensions of the cab...

[Witchboard]

I'll be interested to see what sort of benchmarks and game quality/speed you get with one of those boards.  I have always had my eye on them for the past couple years for Mame, but was always concerned with their lack of speed.  I dunno.

I've built an HTPC with one and a desktop with another.  If you tell me what info you want it wouldn't be a problem to slap MAME on them and see.  I'm not a MAME guru, so if you give me some instructions I'll be happy to post the results.

[Jakobud]

I was looking at the VIA EPIA Nehemiah M10000 - it runs at 1Ghz.  Isn't this enough to run most current mame games?

Hmmm well you will be able to run a lot of them.

They just came out with a MII-12000 epia.  1.2 ghz.  Take a look at that too.

[Nephus]

this is pretty much a standard motherboard, it just has everything on board already, and you can't upgrade the processor since it's permanently attached.  Other than that, treat it eactly as you would any other computer that you were building.  I'm at a loss as to where you came up with some of your preconcieved notions about the mini-itx boards.  

[SteveJ34]

I was looking at the VIA EPIA Nehemiah M10000 - it runs at 1Ghz.  Isn't this enough to run most current mame games?  I am not sold on any one computer yet - I just want it to be small enough to fit inside my bartop cab...  It's going to be roughly 16"W x 15"D x 18"H... I'm having trouble finding a suitable monitor too... I feel like that is going to be the driving force behind the dimensions of the cab...

I've been looking at the mini-itx form for jukebox and similar HTPC projects. Price points for these mb's and components is still a bit high from where I sit.

Agreed, your cab size is likely going to be driven by monitor size and for the cost, I would suggest looking at flex atx and micro atx formats as well.

With this approach you can pack a higher ghz CPU into similar size space constraints and likely get bigger bang for $ spent.

I've built several systems around Shuttle XPCs....these are nice small micro-atx form factor box.

My two cents....

[Silver]

The mini-ITX boards are superb - you don't realise how quiet no fans are vs "super-quiet-silent-mode-AthlonXP-cooler-fan...." You have to see something on screen or check the power lights to see if the thing is actually turned on (I run one with a compact flash card - no HD)

They are also ridiculously small. check out http://www.mini-itx.com/ and look at projects to see people building functioning xp machines inside a NES or SNES or teddy bear etc..etc...

One thing to bear in mind - The speed of the processors DO NOT compare to equivalent speeds of a P4 or AthlonXP. i.e A 1gig Athlon XP would absolutely wipe the floor with the 1 gig Nehemiah or whatever. But then the Epia processors probably use around 1/20th of the power consumption. So I would take up the offer from Jakobud to run some MAME tests. There will be no problem I'm sure with any of the 'classics' but you may find performance is not too your liking. It depends what kind of games you want to play. 3d PC games are also a no-no....

Just my opinion all that though!

[Lilwolf]

forget XP unless your required to for other reasons.  You will loose a % of speed and need to increase the memory.  98SE or better yet, look for 98lite and you will be happy.

Next...

Forget the CD... Every Epia board I've seen has a network card on the board.  If you only have one more computer by a "cross over cable"  this is a network cable that doesn't require a hub.  So then you can just plug your computers in together and move files around at 100mbps.  

Next..  Silver is VERY right about the speed.  You might want to look at a slightly older mame version.  Every few versions they emulate the games better (closer) to the original and remove speed hacks to make them work with todays hardware.  Look at mame versions at the point where a 1ghz machine was standard.  

But you can add a few mame versions and try it.  But you WILL get a few thousand games that will run great.  But don't expect the latest ones...

Also other non-mame emulators might work better for you.  NeoGeo and CPS2 might run better on non-mame emulators.