Another CP Layout needing feedback

[Martoon]

Okay, here's the panel layout I've come up with.  The ITVT (Interactive Tactile Visualization Tool) that I've chosen consists of circles cut from magnetic material and placed on a metal sheet.  I found this to work exceptionally well for getting a feel for the layout.  The magnetic pieces slide around easily if you grab the edges with your fingernails, but they stay put when you're pretending to press them like buttons, etc.  The actual panel will most likely be wood.

Just wanted to see if anyone saw any obvious problems I might have with this layout.  The coin insert buttons will be on the front.  I have the trackball offcenter toward the left because I didn't want it too close to the player 2 joystick.  I've seen lots of pictures of other panels where the trackball was centered, so it was pretty close to the p2 joystick, and no one ever mentioned this was a problem.  Do you think I'd be okay if it was centered?  When I stood at this panel and pretended I was paddling like mad in Marble Madness, it just seemed like my hand would be hitting anything nearby (but it may be different if I were actually playing).

[itismejs]

Can you even reach the top button 8 way or the spinner. Might be the pic but it looks extremly far away. Player 1 and 2 setups might be a lil squished but other than that its fine....And also as everyone says "you dont need those admin buttons" I think admins buttons are fine though.

[Trimoor]

I'd say to rotate the P1 setup to be opposite of the P2 angle.

It looks strange to see them angled in the same direction.

Also, consider moving the P1 and P2 controls more toward the outer edge.

[DougHillman]

Trimoor, are you advocating putting the P1 buttons on the left of the stick?  Or just lower to that they sorta make a "V" with the P2 controls?  Regardless, Martoon I dunno if I'd do either.  If you lower the buttons, that forces P1 to stand way more to the left in order to comfortably use the controls.  Puts him more outta line with the center of the screen.  I like the buttons as they are.

I would though, move them a little closer to the edges (both left/right and the bottom).  The previous 2 posters are correct, seems like they've got room to move outwards some and the reach up to the top seems pretty far.  

D

[Trimoor]

I was thinking of rotating to P1 controls to form a "V".
Right now, it looks like P1 would be facing to the far left of the screen.

[DougHillman]

I was thinking of rotating to P1 controls to form a "V".
Right now, it looks like P1 would be facing to the far left of the screen.

Nah.  Lay your hands out as if you're using controls with your body sorta centered between the stick and buttons.  Donno how your body is built, but that slight angle upwards he's got his buttons at is actually very ergonomic.    

Not a big fan of that sharp corner you'd be leaning up against though.

[whammoed]

Looks too deep.  Shorten it up a bit.

[Martoon]

Okay, to give an idea of scale:  The entire panel is 34" wide and 20" deep.  The spinner and top-button 8-way are 14" (to center) from the bottom edge.  It's a slight reach, but not too bad.  I could move everything down a little.  It's just that I've heard people say you don't want the controls too close to the bottom edge, because you want some wrist/arm support if you're sitting at the cab on a barstool.  But it could probably come down a little.

And the angle of the buttons feels about right like it is, for both players.  Like DougHillman said, your hands angle inwards.  We tried having two of us stand there each pretending to hold a joystick and buttons, and our hands fell naturally and we were facing the screen square on.

I could move the controls out to the sides a little more like people suggested, but not too far.  I want to use the joysticks for two-joystick games (Robotron, etc.), and if they got much further apart they wouldn't be too comfortable.

The reason I have the bit of extra width is, once again, for support when sitting on a barstool.  The pic below shows the angle of the player's arms.  I didn't want them going off the edge.  But it looks like I could definitely bring the edges in a couple inches, if I round off all the corners (so your arms won't be resting on a corner).

And yes, the whole thing is deeper than it needs to be.

So I think I'll:

Pull everything down a little, and get rid of some of the depth.

Round off the corners.

Lose some of the width off the sides.

[pointdablame]

that panel is a bit too deep for my liking.  I'm not convinced that you'd enjoy using the controls toward the monitor for an extended period of time... but that's just me.

Your layout itself looks pretty good, however.  I would rotate the P1 buttons as was suggested though

[XtraSmiley]

Some of my favorite trackball games require the use of a button or two also.  I don't see easy to hit buttons with your ball.  I mean, they are all within reach, but are they at an angle that is comfortable to tap?  I'm horrible with pictures though, I need the real deal to feel something out.  Good luck, looks great so far.

[Martoon]

that panel is a bit too deep for my liking.  I'm not convinced that you'd enjoy using the controls toward the monitor for an extended period of time... but that's just me.

Your layout itself looks pretty good, however.  I would rotate the P1 buttons as was suggested though

Yeah, I am going to pull everything back a bit, and make the panel not so deep.  But if I rotate the P1 buttons, it won't be by much.  I like the players facing the monitor in parallel, not angled in toward the center.

[Martoon]

Some of my favorite trackball games require the use of a button or two also.  I don't see easy to hit buttons with your ball.  I mean, they are all within reach, but are they at an angle that is comfortable to tap?  I'm horrible with pictures though, I need the real deal to feel something out.  Good luck, looks great so far.

That's a good point.  Initially, I had the P1 and P2 buttons straight to the right of each joystick, so the P1 buttons were right by the trackball, but now the trackball's a little lonely.  Maybe I should put the mouse buttons left and right of the trackball instead of above it.

[Tilzs]

Don't make the CP any larger than you have to. It seems like there is a lot of dead space on the sides as well, if I was making that CP i'd make the controls spread out a little bit more across the width.

For sure don't make it so deep though. There really is no need.

[Xiaou2]

 Ok, i messed with this a little for fun...

 By making a v angle in the bottom, i was able to move the
trackball lower - thus giving it a lot of space away from the other controls so that your hands do not fly into them.

 I also moved the topfire and spinner closer to you for more comfort... and swapped thier order.  Being a bit closer together so as can use with both hands at the same time.  You can also see that you can reach them without arms hitting the other controls and buttons.   You could also use the mouse buttons next to them if needed.

 Added a coin in button next to start.  not sure which admin buttons needed... but you could line more up at the top anyways.

 I did realized (now) that if you stood in the middle, you might be poked a bit by the point... you could either curve it a little more... or flatten out a smaller straight edge (about 5 inches).    Now that I think about it... smoothing the curve out would prolly be the best idea.

[DougHillman]

Okay, to give an idea of scale:  The entire panel is 34" wide and 20" deep.  The spinner and top-button 8-way are 14" (to center) from the bottom edge.  It's a slight reach, but not too bad.  I could move everything down a little.  It's just that I've heard people say you don't want the controls too close to the bottom edge, because you want some wrist/arm support if you're sitting at the cab on a barstool.  But it could probably come down a little.

And the angle of the buttons feels about right like it is, for both players.  Like DougHillman said, your hands angle inwards.  We tried having two of us stand there each pretending to hold a joystick and buttons, and our hands fell naturally and we were facing the screen square on.

I could move the controls out to the sides a little more like people suggested, but not too far.  I want to use the joysticks for two-joystick games (Robotron, etc.), and if they got much further apart they wouldn't be too comfortable.

The reason I have the bit of extra width is, once again, for support when sitting on a barstool.  The pic below shows the angle of the player's arms.  I didn't want them going off the edge.  But it looks like I could definitely bring the edges in a couple inches, if I round off all the corners (so your arms won't be resting on a corner).

And yes, the whole thing is deeper than it needs to be.

So I think I'll:

Pull everything down a little, and get rid of some of the depth.

Round off the corners.

Lose some of the width off the sides.

Have you actually mocked this up at the height you're planning and sat at it on the stools?

In over 2 decades of video gaming, I've seldom (if ever) encountered a situation in which I've actually got my entire forearms laying on a control panel.   Won't work unless you're sitting aweful low or your CP is positioned pretty high.  Don't think it would be terribly comfortable either way.

 

[Martoon]

Have you actually mocked this up at the height you're planning and sat at it on the stools?

In over 2 decades of video gaming, I've seldom (if ever) encountered a situation in which I've actually got my entire forearms laying on a control panel.   Won't work unless you're sitting aweful low or your CP is positioned pretty high.  Don't think it would be terribly comfortable either way.

I have mocked it up (which is why my ITVT consists of magnetic pieces I can feel), but no I haven't actually tried it while sitting on a stool.  That's a very good point.  I guess even sitting on a stool, your elbows would probably be a little higher than the panel, so only your wrists would rest on the surface.  That being the case, I can probably pull all the controls down a lot, and lose most of that depth.

[DougHillman]

Have you actually mocked this up at the height you're planning and sat at it on the stools?

In over 2 decades of video gaming, I've seldom (if ever) encountered a situation in which I've actually got my entire forearms laying on a control panel.   Won't work unless you're sitting aweful low or your CP is positioned pretty high.  Don't think it would be terribly comfortable either way.

I have mocked it up (which is why my ITVT consists of magnetic pieces I can feel), but no I haven't actually tried it while sitting on a stool.  That's a very good point.  I guess even sitting on a stool, your elbows would probably be a little higher than the panel, so only your wrists would rest on the surface.  That being the case, I can probably pull all the controls down a lot, and lose most of that depth.

Exactly.  Not sure why most people don't get this.

D