If I break one more piece of plexiglass.....

[mccoy178]

Okay, I'm looking for any good tips on cutting out the plexiglass on top of the control panel.  I have the scoring and snapping down, I am having a bigger problem with the button holes.  I have the proper router bit for matching the holes in the wood, my problem lies in just putting a stupid guide hole for the router.  I keep cracking my plexi.  I tried small to large and that worked well.  The only issue was that on hole 17, whap, a nice spider web.  So, just to look like an idiot, does anyone have any sure fire methods for creating the 3/8ths holes I need to get the router bit through.  Thanks for any help.  This is the last step holding me back from making serious strides and four sheets later, I'm a little sick of figuring it out!!!

[paigeoliver]

Solution 1.

Don't use plexi. Plexi is for crappy conversion games that have extra holes under the overlay.

Solution 2, run the drill bit backwards and melt your way though.

[Bill Mote]

Drill a pilot hole with a drill bit and then route them.  The router will make quick work of this job and you can use your control panel board as the jig.  There's a special bit for cutting plexi/lexan, but the results will be flawless.

dot

[RetroJames]

Drill a pilot hole with a drill bit and then route them.  The router will make quick work of this job and you can use your control panel board as the jig.  There's a special bit for cutting plexi/lexan, but the results will be flawless.

dot

Lexan....

[Trillian]

Lexan....

Whats that?
Same stuff as plexiglass or what?
cant find it in my dictionary...

[menace]

Solution 1.

Don't use plexi. Plexi is for crappy conversion games that have extra holes under the overlay.

or its for people that don't want guests/kids/others messing up their artwork with scratches and have no access to adhesive vinyl printing services.

I sandwich the plexi between two pieces of wood--keeps the bit from biting the plexi and pulling it up--since i started doing this i haven't had one crack.

[Mr. Dude]

I drill plexi all the time at work....  The sandwich method menace mentioned is best.  You could also tape both sides with masking tape where you are going to drill and that will keep it from splitting or cracking.

[RetroJames]

Lexan....

Whats that?
Same stuff as plexiglass or what?
cant find it in my dictionary...

Same aisle at Home Depot as the plexi.  I found this thread about it's properties on a marine site:

Faure, Marin marin.faure@boeing.com
Mon Oct 8 12:01:52 EDT 2001

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From: "Brownell, Peter" <Peter.Brownell@state.vt.us>
Subject: TWL: Plexiglass vs Lexan

>Any thoughts on the advantages of lexan vs plexiglass (or something else?)

Lexan is stronger and more impact resistant that plexiglas (acrylic).
Plexiglas
is more scratch resistant than Lexan.

---------------

I drilled about 12 holes in lexan and never had a problem.  Did not have to sandwich it either.  THe lexan is a couple dollars more.

[patrickl]

Solution 1.

Don't use plexi. Plexi is for crappy conversion games that have extra holes under the overlay.

or its for people that don't want guests/kids/others messing up their artwork with scratches and have no access to adhesive vinyl printing services.

People without access to Mamemarquees.com or ClassicArcadeGrafix.com apparently don't have access to the internet, so we won't see them here  

Using them saves you a ton of problems, gets you a better looking result and I wonder if it's not even cheaper in the end (no need to buy a router bit and plexi or Lexan)

[RetroJames]

Solution 1.

Don't use plexi. Plexi is for crappy conversion games that have extra holes under the overlay.

Solution 2, run the drill bit backwards and melt your way though.

Hey!!!!!!

[Nannuu]

It is also called Lucite Tuff at Home Depot.

[ThePaul]

"Don't use plexi. Plexi is for crappy conversion games that have extra holes under the overlay."

Your opinion.

Not everyone here is trying to create an exact replica of a non-conversion cab. Maybe someone here is as anal as you about making an exact replica of a converted cab.. extra holes under plexi and all.

BYOAC doesn't stand for Build Your Own Authentic Cabinet... at least not last time I checked.

I understand there are purists on this board and I respect that, but if I wanted something authentic.. I'd buy it. I mean you are saying don't use Plexi because only crappy converted cabs had it, but wtf had IPACs and computers inside?

Anyway I'd say go for Lexan. It is perfect for the job.

[unclet]

I drilled all the holes required in my 4-player control panel top.  I then placed the sheet of plexi on the top of the control panel and taped it down very nicely so it does not move at all.  I then flipped the control panel over and placed it on another piece of flat smooth MDF board (ie: the plexi is now sandwiched between the bottom MDF board and the control panel top.    I then placed my 1-1/8" drill bit in the already-drilled holes on the control panel so the point of the drill bit rests on the plexi glass.  The sides of the already-drilled holes act like a guide to drill out the plexi so it cuts nice perfect holes.  Thing is....go slow and let the drill bit melt the plexi down.   Plexi is not wood, so you can not simply push the drill bit into it to do it quickly.......it would break if you did this.

[Pieman2004]

Nice. and with pictures

[RayB]

I understand there are purists on this board and I respect that, but if I wanted something authentic.. I'd buy it. I mean you are saying don't use Plexi because only crappy converted cabs had it, but wtf had IPACs and computers inside?

The point he's making is you don't even NEED plexi on top of your overlay. The reason alot of arcade games had them was because they were conversions and the plexi was to prevent players from poking holes where the OLD button holes were.

There's no real need for plexi, since a proper vinyl overlay is tough enough to withstand touching and scratches. Just keep your lit cigarettes off it.

~Ray B.

[allroy1975]

Solution 1.

Don't use plexi. Plexi is for crappy conversion games that have extra holes under the overlay.

or its for people that don't want guests/kids/others messing up their artwork with scratches and have no access to adhesive vinyl printing services.

I sandwich the plexi between two pieces of wood--keeps the bit from biting the plexi and pulling it up--since i started doing this i haven't had one crack.

man that drives me nuts.  why is it every time someone has a question about how to do something, someone always has to come in and say "don't do it".  That's like the 2nd time I've seen PO do that in the last week.  it's almost as helpful as this post I'm making.  0

Allroy

[patrickl]

Solution 1.

Don't use plexi. Plexi is for crappy conversion games that have extra holes under the overlay.

or its for people that don't want guests/kids/others messing up their artwork with scratches and have no access to adhesive vinyl printing services.

I sandwich the plexi between two pieces of wood--keeps the bit from biting the plexi and pulling it up--since i started doing this i haven't had one crack.

man that drives me nuts.  why is it every time someone has a question about how to do something, someone always has to come in and say "don't do it".  That's like the 2nd time I've seen PO do that in the last week.  it's almost as helpful as this post I'm making.  0

Allroy

Well, if someone asks you how to take a hairpin corner at 100mph what would you say? Maybe you'd say "don't do it"? I don't see why it is so weird to warn someone against looking for trouble.

Besides, apart from the tip not to use plexi, paigeoliver also gives a tip how to get it done anyway.

[Bgnome]

Well, if someone asks you how to take a hairpin corner at 100mph what would you say? Maybe you'd say "don't do it"? I don't see why it is so weird to warn someone against looking for trouble.

i think it involves using the emergency brake and turning the steering wheel at the appropriate time.  at least thats how i saw this stunt guy parallel park from going 100mph on a show called "beyond human" (or something to that effect).

[vader]

My personal opinion....use the plexi, gives a nice feel, protects any artwork you might have or want to put on in the future and brightens things up.  Something
I recommend gettings is a forstner bit and use it in a standard drill.  I used this
on my first attemp at cutting plexi ( I used Lucite, available at Home Depot ) and
didn't get as some much as a splinter with drilling 26 holes ( 1 1/8" though ).  I'd
say give it another shot and see if you like it.  If you don't, take it back off, it's only
like a 11 bucks, of couse I have no clue how many sheets you went through.  FYI, the first hole I cut, I did in reverse and did no problem, although slightly slower.  Each additional cut was done on forward with a moderate speed.  Key to no crack is using you CP as a guide and sandwiching the lucite in between it and another piece
of wood and clamping together.  Good luck and you have to do what you want to do, not what everyone else wants, their not the one who have to look at it every day.

[Jakobud]

Why don't you get rid of the plexi and just use Lexan like everyone else?  It won't crack on you.

[Excretious]

My Cp is 47" x 23"......... i didnt go for lexan because i woulda had to pay 50 bucks whereas the plexi cost me 12.  

Just chiming in to point out that Lexan is NOT "just a couple bucks more"


And yes, i cracked my first 4'x2' piece of plexi and had to get a second one.  I predrilled all my holes with a 1/8 bit and when i was ready to start using the hole saw........ MY VERY FIRST HOLE in the plexi pulled up and spider webbed.  So what i did was used a drill bit called a 'uni-bit' to open up all my 1/8 holes to about a 1/4" or whatever it was to get the holesaw pilot bit thru.

A unibit is just a drill bit that starts at 1/8 and progressivly works its way up to a 1/2" hole?  





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[mccoy178]

Thanks for all the tips.  I had used a pilot bit to start all the holes.  This went fine untill the end.  Maybe I got lax or whatever, anyways, I think I will use the bits in reverse and take my time.  I am using the plexi due to cost and because I am using my own artwork underneath.  My CP is 20x36, so I am using the most economical option.  Also, I wanted to mention that I am also going to use smoked grey 1/4 plexi on the monitor.  From what I have seen, it looks pretty cool.  Thanks again.

[RandyT]

Lexan isn't the end to all ends either.

Lexan is softer than Plexi.  It's not as rigid, will loose it's lustre more quickly, and scratch easily.  It also will "yellow" much more quickly than plexi when exposed to UV and it's usually pretty expensive.  But, it will stop a bullet if the piece is thick enough, and it's more likely to bend than break.

Plexi has properties closer to glass.  High optical clarity, good rigidity and fairly inexpensive.  It can be a little tricky to keep from cracking (always drill bolt holes a little oversize to allow for thermal expansion and don't overtighten the bolts.)  It's brittle, but won't shatter into a hundred sharp pieces like glass.  It will break, but you're less likely to get a serious cut on it.

A tip given to me by a "plastics guy" was to use a drill bit with one of the flutes ground off at the tip.  The breaking usually occurs when the bit exits the other side and this supposedly keeps the tip from binding and causing the crack.

YMMV.

RandyT

[OSCAR]

I also use plexi instead of lexan for exactly the same reasons that Randy mentioned.  I've used plexi for marquees, bezels, on cp's, etc., and I have yet to ever crack a single piece in the countless times I've cut or made holes in a sheet.

I do stand by the recommendation that a router is the absolute best way to cut plexi.  Well, other than a laser or water jet, but not many of us have that option.  

One other suggestion I would have is not to put too much pressure on the plexi when using a drill.  As the hole is being cut, you don't want to force the bit into the plexi faster than the bit is removing the material.  If you do, then you are applying a point pressure that may cause a crack as the material gets thinner right where you are drilling.

With a router the bit removes material so quickly and cleanly, I doubt it is even possible to cause plexi to crack.  When doing button holes, I use a template bit (the kind with the bearing on the top side of the cutter head) and clamp the plexi to the underside of the wood control panel.  Then I plunge directly though the plexi with the router bit (no pilot holes with a drill) and use the control panel as the template.  Some pics of this method can be seen at: http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar.

[Xiaou2]

 Plexi wasnt just used for conversions.  In a
Namco ran arcade, all the games got plexi on
them... new and old.  

 Plexi does keep hand oils and sticky crud from
messing up the artwork.  Its easier to clean the
smooth flat surface rather than a bumpy
overlay.  Keeps sharp  objects from scraping
artwork.  Keeps art overlay from lifting due to
glue wearing out - inflexibility - and
enviornmental changes.  Protects art from
fading from UV rays.

 Cutting plexi is tricky.. but not that bad.

  The biggest troubles arise if you do not
clamp the material.  Any vibrations will cause
the fractures.

 1) Keep plexi covering on till your finished - else
it will  scratch while your woring on it.

 2) Clamp plexi to the control panel.  Use a soft
clamp, or pop something like a folder rag in the
jaws to avoid scratches from the clamps.

 3) Drill using a drill guide to reduce vibrations..
or better - use a drill  press.   Trying to freehand
drill will most likely result in cracking as even a
small kick or varience in your cutting angle will
cause a crack.

4) Bit selection:
   a) Fostner bit = cleanest smoothest cuts!
      but most expensive bits.  A little slow to cut

   b) Spade Bit - very fast cutting, nice holes.  
        Need drillguide or press to use well.
        Cheapest bits. (buying a full set is usually less
        costly overall, and nice to have all the sizes)

    c) Holesaw - med speed holes.  Have to unclog the
        bit each holes. A little rough.  Get a dedicated bit
        rather than a multi head  interchangable one as
        they arnt very durrbale, will break fast.  bi-metal
        will cut thru all: metal, wood, plexi.  Good bits are
           fairly costly, but will last a long time.

     d) Circle cutter - a little tricky to use..  needs a drill
         press to use.  Good for obscenely large holes.

*** Drill tips:

Drill at HIGHEST speed setting - BUT - drill
down as SLOW as possible.  Letting the
speed of the drill heat the plexi to the point
of making it melt slightly so that it will not
crack.   Some drill in reverse - but thats not
nessessary... and still can cause a crack if you
drill too fast downwards.  A drill hole that
would take about 1 second in a harder
material,  would take about 10 or more
seconds to avoid cracks.

 5)  Drill a hole that will be for a bolt that
      will hold the plexi to the panel.   Once that
      is drilled, pop the bolt in and lightly tighten it.  
      Do each of the corners one at a time this way.  
     This will help to keep the the material in place
      and might even choose to remove the clamps
      afterwords

  6) Drill the Plexi and the control panel hole at
      the same time to reduce problems with
      wandering (where plexi holes and wood holes
      dont line up well).   OR

  6b) Drill a the panel from the bottom, but,  
        must add another piece of wood to the
        bottom & clamp that as well (making a
        plexi sandwhich).   OR

   6c) Drill pilot holes,  then use a router to
         cut the rest - following the edges.   I use
         a 1/4" rotozip bit for good results... hadnt
         tried a standard bit.
 
   7) Smooth edges of holes by lightly hand
        sanding them with a high grit paper.

 Cutting Edges:

   Routers will work great for this.

   I have cut plexi with a tablesaw tho - and it
does work...  but its messy and chips the edges
a bit.   It may have been better if I had tried to
sandwhich the plexi in between wood before
the cut - but didnt think about that at the time.

  Scoring does work as well.   Clamp a straight
edge to the plexi, then run razorblade across
the edge into the plexi.  you will need to repeat
this several times.  After getting fairly deep into
the material... you may then try to break the
parts appart.  Make sure to clamp the halves
tightly so that one of the edges is overhung
over a table edge or simular.

 Scoring may still need a good deal of sanding
and maybe some shapeing.  I recomend
practicing this a few times before the actual
piece.

   
 

[paigeoliver]

man that drives me nuts.  why is it every time someone has a question about how to do something, someone always has to come in and say "don't do it".  That's like the 2nd time I've seen PO do that in the last week.  it's almost as helpful as this post I'm making.  0

Oh, I do a lot of "don't do that" posts. Many of them for good reason.

"Don't do that" posts from me will often pop up in these threads.

Any thread involving hacking multiple gamepads.

Any thread involving a mame cabinet featuring a brand new computer and an old 17" monitor inside a monster cabinet.

Any thread involving placing a large panel on a classic cabinet.

Any thread about converting a driving cab into a joystick cabinet.

Any thread involving an X-Arcade.

Some threads about plexiglass.

I don't like plexiglass, largely because it is conversion game fodder, and man does it start looking crappy quick. Real overlays do not get damaged during normal play, they get damaged from cigarette burns and from people peeling them off a bit at a time.

So when someone posts indicating they are having all sorts of plexiglass issues I will often chime in and tell them that they don't need it. I do this because many of the people in this community have no real memory of dedicated games, and think that real arcade games have plexi, when in reality it is really crappy arcade games that have plexi.

[Xiaou2]

 Yes, but... these are just your opinions,  and you shouldnt ram them down other peoples throats.  Its pigheaded and not very polite.

  Plexi btw holds up very well.  In the BUSY arcade I Managed for 3 years - plexi showed very little scratching or frosting.  A little light polishing with novice was all it took to keep them sparkeling.

  Also... people dont peel the art off control panels unless its digging into thier hands!   This happens because the glue that holds the stuff down fades over time... and also, the material bubbles up a bit.  Then it starts to get brittle and cracks.  Once the cracking starts... it becomes uncomfortable for the player to say the least - so they peel the sharp edge off.  This of course speeds the process of the rest of the damage... however... it dosnt matter anyway, as the material is still old, crusty, and brittle.  And prolly dirty, stained, and faded from hand oils and UV rays.  
 
 And yes,  I remember the days before plexi.  In fact, we still had a galaga and a ms pacman.  My collector friends also have numberous oldies... most all with some horrificly devestated control panel overlays.

 If you wish to state your OPINIONS - then say, Its my opinion that you ...ect.   Otherwise its just plain rude - imop... and from what i can see,  others as well.

  Ohh, and I think we have all had enough of you "ooo look at these toys I got for next to nothing"  bragging posts.  Get over yourself.  This site should be about helping people to make arcade controls... not about self promoting ones egos.
 

[patrickl]

Did you just have a very bad day or something?

[paigeoliver]

You are absolutely right, it is just my opinion that multiple identical gamepads randonmly swap positions at each reboot. That must be an opinion, could not be a fact.

Believe it or not I actually have been doing this a long time, I actually have made most of the mistakes already and can possibly keep other people from making them. Mame related mistakes as often as not end up with a cab in the dumpster.

I don't keep plexi on my machines, but I can tell you every plexi equipped conversion game I have ever had has come with a nasty looking piece of plexi.

Galagas and Pacs always have bad overlays. The pacs just got played too much and that 90 degree bend on galaga did those overlays in.

[Xiaou2]

Solution 1.

Don't use plexi. Plexi is for crappy conversion games that have extra holes under the overlay.
----

  The above is an ORDER... not a suggestion or opinion.  Altogether It is also snide - a mockery or insult.

  The  2nd sentence, is again a personal opinion... and yet you tout it off as if it were a fact...  and that any other idea was like saying the sky is brown not blue.  

  It all comes making you look less like someone who wants to be helpfull... and more like someone who thinks he is above everyone else... and goes so far as to laugh at others expense about it.

  Your helpfull advice, is also not the end all to all helpfullness.  I had once tried the backwards drilling and it still cracked the plexi.  As noted in my detailed posts... I tried many ways before figuring out those findings.  Again tho... you come off as if you know the perfect solution to all problems... and anyone elses reply/opinion is useless and something to snicker at.

 "Believe it or not I actually have been doing this a long time"

   So have I.  And... so have many many other great people on this board.  So what?  

 Everyone on this board has a right to an opionion, and shouldnt be belittled for voicing it.   And shouldnt be scolded and commanded as to what and how to do something - based on opinions.

 You can see that there are many example links on this site that have plexi installed on them... and they look fantastic IMOP... and they Like how it turned out.

  Ohh, and if the plexi that came on your machines was whack... it was prolly cause the games you got wernt taken care of very well.  Damage due to moving and poor storage... and people putting thier pcbs and other mechanical junk all over it.

--- another thing

"Galagas and Pacs always have bad overlays. The pacs just got played too much and that 90 degree bend on galaga did those overlays in."

 Somewhat admits that your logic is flawed.   You say you do not need plexi... but,  by Pacman overlays die from overuse... and galagas from too steep an angle bend.   These circumstances are reasons why plexi is usefull.  For pacman... the plexi could have been polished or replaced if worn... keeping the art spankin new.  For galaga... they should have realized the material would crack period... but still, you can see that the stuff does crack and warp with age.  Its not impervious to dirt, stains, oils,..ect.  And replacing it isnt easy as replacing a piece of plexi - as theres lots of glue to try to scrape off... that and still haveing to try to get another piece of art printed out all over again$.   But hey... those are just my opinions...
 

 

 

[hunky_artist]

guys drop it.....

[patrickl]

Everyone on this board has a right to an opionion, and shouldnt be belittled for voicing it.   And shouldnt be scolded and commanded as to what and how to do something - based on opinions.

Yet you scold paigoliver for voicing his opinion based on your opinion that you shouldn't scold people for voicing their opinion  

[shawnzilla]

OSCAR, just curious: What is the cutting length & cutting diameter of your template bit? Does it matter? i.e. will any template bit with a top-mounted bearing work?

I also use plexi instead of lexan for exactly the same reasons that Randy mentioned.  I've used plexi for marquees, bezels, on cp's, etc., and I have yet to ever crack a single piece in the countless times I've cut or made holes in a sheet.

I do stand by the recommendation that a router is the absolute best way to cut plexi.  Well, other than a laser or water jet, but not many of us have that option.  

One other suggestion I would have is not to put too much pressure on the plexi when using a drill.  As the hole is being cut, you don't want to force the bit into the plexi faster than the bit is removing the material.  If you do, then you are applying a point pressure that may cause a crack as the material gets thinner right where you are drilling.

With a router the bit removes material so quickly and cleanly, I doubt it is even possible to cause plexi to crack.  When doing button holes, I use a template bit (the kind with the bearing on the top side of the cutter head) and clamp the plexi to the underside of the wood control panel.  Then I plunge directly though the plexi with the router bit (no pilot holes with a drill) and use the control panel as the template.  Some pics of this method can be seen at: http://www.oscarcontrols.com/sinistar.

[ThePaul]

man that drives me nuts.  why is it every time someone has a question about how to do something, someone always has to come in and say "don't do it".  That's like the 2nd time I've seen PO do that in the last week.  it's almost as helpful as this post I'm making.  0

Oh, I do a lot of "don't do that" posts. Many of them for good reason.

"Don't do that" posts from me will often pop up in these threads.

Any thread involving hacking multiple gamepads.

Any thread involving a mame cabinet featuring a brand new computer and an old 17" monitor inside a monster cabinet.

Any thread involving placing a large panel on a classic cabinet.

Any thread about converting a driving cab into a joystick cabinet.

Any thread involving an X-Arcade.

Some threads about plexiglass.

I don't like plexiglass, largely because it is conversion game fodder, and man does it start looking crappy quick. Real overlays do not get damaged during normal play, they get damaged from cigarette burns and from people peeling them off a bit at a time.

So when someone posts indicating they are having all sorts of plexiglass issues I will often chime in and tell them that they don't need it. I do this because many of the people in this community have no real memory of dedicated games, and think that real arcade games have plexi, when in reality it is really crappy arcade games that have plexi.

...explains why you have 4000+ posts.

[OSCAR]

OSCAR, just curious: What is the cutting length & cutting diameter of your template bit? Does it matter? i.e. will any template bit with a top-mounted bearing work?

Any template bit should work, but I typically use a 1/2" diameter bit.  I think the bit is 1" or 1.25" long, don't have it in front of me at the moment.

For cutting wood I use a larger bit, like a 3/4" dia with a 1/2" shank, but that isn't necessary for cutting plastic.