Information on PS2->USB hack for dual mice

[LJHalfbreed]

Hey people!

I've got a question...

I'm trying to get both a trackball and a spinner to work on my cabinet. However, the models I have are both PS/2 mouse connections. I've seen online a few PS2->USB converters/adapters, and I even own one (even though it's for keyboards and not mice).

What I'm trying to find out is "Is it possible to hack both spinner and TB into using USB, and if so, how? I've googled and searched, and mainly all I can find is links to the various mouse+keyboard->USB converters.

In addition, I'm currently using XP Pro. Would I run into any big problems using two 'mice'? Would using an optipac help or hurt me in this situation?

I'm just trying to get the biggest bang for my buck, and don't want to spend 50 bucks when I can just solder some wires together. (I've got plenty of USB and PS2 cables, plus this keyboard ps/2->USB converter).

Any advice/suggestions/links?

Thanks much!

-LJ

[Bgnome]

keep one on ps/2 and hook the other one up to the usb adapter..

another option is to wire them together and use a switch to select between the two:
http://www.oscarcontrols.com/DPDTswitch.shtml

[paigeoliver]

Also, doesn't the USB adaptor only work if the mouse/keyboard has both kind of electronics inside? I know the serial/ps2 adaptors are like that.

[Bgnome]

i had one of those that was a straight-through adapter for ps/2 to usb.  it could only be used in stuff that would support that kind of adapter, much like the usb>ps/2 dongle that comes with logitech stuff..
but phil collins is right, it won't work with anything not meant to work with it.  you can get ps/2 to usb adapters that work, but these will have a usb controller chip in em somewhere and usually have a keyboard along with a mouse input.  i don't have one of those at the moment, but my best guess would be that you could hook up 2 mice to it..  you can get these from radioshack, best buy, walmart, etc. for ~$15 and up.  i have heard some complaints about using these for this application tho..

[LJHalfbreed]

Yeah... I'm currently trying out the PS2->USB adapter (coded and labeled keyboard/green), and it doesn't seem to work right with a mouse. Soooo.... I'm thinking I'm hosed on that aspect.

I'm thining I'll have to hunt down a USB mouse and go with that setup on oscar controls... I was hoping to avoid this, because both spinner and trackball are set up for PS2, and I'd hate to go hacking into perfectly good working PS2 stuff just to get them to work.

Thanks for the suggestion though... an 8 dollar (or less) USB mouse plus a dpdt switch is a whole lot easier to pay for instead of a 40$ PS2->USB converter that still might not work correctly with two mice.

Anyone have any other suggestions for getting 2 'mice' to work within WinXP, or is hacking a usb mouse (or installing a 40$ optipac) the only option?

-LJ

[LJHalfbreed]

Hmm.... Just thinking... anyone ever try hacking a toggle to swap fully between a spinner and trackball, or will windows freak out because there's no y axis?

-LJ

[Bgnome]

you can wire up a mouse and only use a single axis.  this is how the spinners work on mouse hacks.  the way oscar's is set up is that they are sharing an axis on the same mouse.  if you already have 2 mice hacked, then you dont need to share an axis.
if you want to completely shut off the trackball when you turn the spinner on or vice versa on the same mouse, then i would change the diagram to use a spdt switch on the power lines between the spinner and the trackball..

[LJHalfbreed]

Well, right now I have a Benton Imperial trackball I got off of ebay that's PS/2 and has support for 3 mice buttons. I hacked together a spinner using one of the BYOAC ideas of using an older PS/2 Microsoft Mouse with the wheels/rods that look like pots and not chopperwheel+emitters. Both work great, but they're both PS2. So, I'm trying to figure out what I would need to do to get *both* to work on the same panel. Now I'm wondering if I need to get one of those super-big-honkin' multi-switches...


Oh heck... hey bgnome... Are you talking about splicing the two PS2 cables together into one connector (effectively splicing all x/y/ground wires into the same end-cable) and then using the spst switch for power (to choose if it goes to trackball or to spinner)? Will XP handle that, as if you just swapped out mice, or will I have to worry about any surges?

-LJ

[Bgnome]

well, the question now is what ports do you have available?  do you have ps/2 ports available?  is usb the only option?

if you have ps/2 ports then you have several options.  if you have 2 ports, why not plug both in?  if you only have 1, which is common in laptops, you can see if a splitter will work, (i made one for my laptop which has my encoder and trackball plugged in atm).  you could also plug one into the ps/2 and hack the other for usb.

if you go back and hack a usb mouse and connect the optics from the spinner and the trackball to it, you can choose to wire a switch to the axis, like oscars, or to the 5v line going to the spinner/trackball.  if you put a switch on the line to the mouse, you will be "unplugging" it, which is ok for usb, but not so much for ps/2.

if you have ps/2 ports, then i would try any of the first set of options.  if you absolutely MUST go usb, then i would first see if i could find any usb ball mice, then hack 1 or 2 depending on how you want to go about it.  if you cant find any or dont want to order the usb hack kit from oscar, i would give a ps/2>usb adapter a shot.  you could always return it if it doesnt work the way you want it and if you havent chopped it to pieces..

[LJHalfbreed]

It's a regular ATX tower inside a much abused, but wonderfully refurbished Ms. Pac-Man (I hope) cabinet.

I'm trying to stick with USB mainly due to wanting 'swappable boards'. In other words, I'd like it if in testing a new board, I could just pop off the original, put on my new one, and just plug in the power+usb A cable to a small 4-port hub inside the CP, and have that 'power' everything.

So, right now, I have your basic tower setup. 2 USB ports in back, 2 PS2 ports (one mouse, one keyboard), plus two 'floating' USB ports (can be set up to connect to an open PCI slot, or to the front of the case). I'd like to have the PS2 ports for the internal 'admin only' keyboard and mouse. So, I figure if I could hack everything into USB, it could solve a lot of problems. Although, I *am* willing to give up the mouse if I can get the Trackball working.

Basically, I'm flat outta cash right now, and will be for a while. I've got a ton of computer/electronic bits, and I'm just trying to figure out what I can get together to get this thing completed by Saturday night, so that way I could possibly sell it to some friends (for more cash, to get the Double Dragon cab I have up and running). It's like I'm in some strange mystery novel and have all the clues, but don't know how to put them together to bust the badguy.

I'm thinking I might have a USB mouse somewhere I can destroy, but I think it's a logitech. But I'm hoping I can have some sort of hotswap PS2 thing going on. I mean, I'm sitting here with my work PC just popping the mouse in and out (PS2), and it doesn't seem like it's really screwing anything up.  And I got bored and have the USB mouse (main mouse) and ps2 mouse (stolen from storeroom for 'testing') both able to 'run' at the same time in windows XP.

Blah... my brain is hurting. So you don't think having both PS2 cables from spinner and trackball 'combined' into one PS2 cable would work? I would think that if you kept the power line separate and had that connected to a toggle, it would 'emulate' yanking out the cord and popping it back in real quick.

I can draw all this in a crappy MS paint jpg if that will explain better.

-LJ

[Bgnome]

Blah... my brain is hurting. So you don't think having both PS2 cables from spinner and trackball 'combined' into one PS2 cable would work? I would think that if you kept the power line separate and had that connected to a toggle, it would 'emulate' yanking out the cord and popping it back in real quick.

I can draw all this in a crappy MS paint jpg if that will explain better.

-LJ

that should be what happens if you wire it that way.  the ps/2 port wasnt made to be hot-swappable.  you should be ok switching it a couple times in a row or once in a while but there is a chance that the computer goes skitzy and you will need to reboot.  but if you aer sticking with it, you could wire an extension to the front of the cab so you can plug/unplug your cp easily..

otherwise, you are looking at a usb ball mouse hack or buying ps/2>usb adapters..

btw, just some info on what ive got going.  i soldered a ps/2 splitter for my laptop (win 98se) which allows me to use a kb and mouse or 2 mice on the same ps/2 port.  tried it on my pc (win xp) and it didnt work.  also tried plugging in 2 mice on the 2 ps/2 ports and it didnt work.

[LJHalfbreed]

Yeah... I'm thinking you're right... Just gets me mad because I went out of my way to make that way sweet (to me at least) old-school MS mouse hack http://web.archive.org/web/20010306112623/http://people.ce.mediaone.net/chadh/spinner.htm that totally works beautifully so far, and I went through all that trouble for nothin'.

I'm going to try to make a USB spinner hack (and leave the TB as straight PS2) and see how that works again. I tried originally with a PS2 mouse, but it was all futzy and I kept having problems with backspin<->no sensitivity and it was just stupidly annoying.

Out of curiosity, did you make it all by scratch, or did you go off one of the byoac-mentioned tutorials?

OH YEAH...

So I was looking into pinouts and such, and found a place where (somehow) they explained that certain laptops are geared to be able to work with Y-connectors for simultaneous mouse/keyboard usage. IIRC, there are 6 pins on a PS2 cable, and 2 are normally 'reserved'. Somehow the laptop uses those (or doesn't) to determine which of the two inputs is which. I could put a laptop in here, but I think that totally defeats the purpose (Still can't use two mice).

And, of course, even though there are 4 'wires' in both USB and PS2 cables, PS2 uses 5v, G, Data and clock, where usb uses 5v, +data, -data, and ground.

Stupid electronics.

And thanks for all your help Bgnome!

-LJ

[Bgnome]

for my trackball, i used a ps/2 mouse hack.  i did some research on bob robert's site and another which i cant recall at the moment.  even though it was a logitech mouse, the only hiccup i had was that the transmitter actually looked like a receiver and vice versa but it worked.

the splitter is based on that circuit you mentioned.  the 2 extra pins are used for the data and clock lines of the second device, (pins 1 & 2 are data and pins 5 & 6 are clock for device 1 and 2, respectively).

as for backspin/sensitivity, you really have to play with it.  you can try to adjust the mouse settings, (turn off acceleration) or you can try making custom encoder wheels, (several examples of cutouts or black/white designs).

good luck with your efforts and let us know how it turns out..

[LJHalfbreed]

No problem... Wish I knew something about HTML, because then I'd get a page going to post pics of all this stuff. As it stands right now, I'm reduced to running to the garage, taking pics, scanning them in, and sending them over email.

I'm thinking I'm going with the USB spinner... the trackball works so nicely now that I'm afraid to even touch it. Any suggestions on mouse to use? I've got some dell mice around here, but don't know how that would work.