4-Player UAII Control Panel - Suggestions/Feedback??

[jerschwab]

Hey everyone!

I have done a rough layout of my 4-Player Ultimate Arcade II control panel and was hoping for some critique/suggestions/feedback, etc.!

One thing I still need to do is find room from the TAB/ENTER/PAUSE/ESC buttons.

Also, I will be putting 2 pinball buttons on each side that aren't shown on the drawing.

THANKS!!

[Tahnok]

Wow! Crowded CP!

You may want to drop the

[the3eyedblindman]

I think it looks good.Very nicely planned, it will look nice, why a top fire joystick though?

[jerschwab]

I think it looks good.Very nicely planned, it will look nice, why a top fire joystick though?

I want to play some games that require it... thought it would be a good addition to the CP.  Not much thought went into buying that, just found a decent deal on it really!

[jerschwab]

Wow! Crowded CP!

You may want to drop the

[Tahnok]

Yes, I realize it is quite busy... perhaps I can move things around a bit better.  How's this layout?

Perfect! I think that CP will be awsome now!

[Nephus]

Similar to what I'm planning to do actually... although I'm still trying to figure out how Guantlet is going to handle the P1 and P2 controls being in the middle and the 3 and 4 being on the sides, instead of going 1, 2, 3, and 4 around the edge.  Wouldn't the wrong stats show up above each player?  I know it's just an aesthetic issue, but that is why we're building cabinets in the first place right?  

[originalself]

why have pause,esc, ect? I prefer to the ipac shortcuts myself but thats just me. Also arent those buttons going to come in on the buttons from the top, or are they lower twoards the bottom? Other than that I think it looks great! *edit* Also i would angle out the p3 p4 sticks instead of all strait, just to give a lil more elbow room.

[JAMMA Guy]

Nice design ... but that looks extremely uncomfortable  

Your button mashing hand is darn near on top your joystick.

That hurts just looking at it ... lol

Give your right hand some room  

As for player 3 & 4 ... heck there going to have to be right on top of players 1 & 2 to even access there controls .

Player 3 & 4's body and arm positons to access there controls correctly looks like a visit to the chiropractor will be in order after that gaming session.

Pinball buttons on a 45"+ control panel .... thats quite an arm stretch  .... hehe.

Ditch players 3 & 4 and spread your player 1 & 2 joysticks and buttons out ... and you got a killer 2 player control panel.

That's just my two cents  

[Tahnok]

*edit* Also i would angle out the p3 p4 sticks instead of all strait, just to give a lil more elbow room.

I have heard nothing but bad things when people doing that. It is very hard to learn to play on an angled stick.

Similar to what I'm planning to do actually... although I'm still trying to figure out how Guantlet is going to handle the P1 and P2 controls being in the middle and the 3 and 4 being on the sides, instead of going 1, 2, 3, and 4 around the edge.  Wouldn't the wrong stats show up above each player?  I know it's just an aesthetic issue, but that is why we're building cabinets in the first place right?

You could use the config files so it automatically changes the controls to the right position (1,2,3,4 instead of 3,1,2,4). It is really rather easy. The only problem is if you have an overlay that says what controls are whose, but that is what the controls.dat project is for.

[DougHillman]

Nice use of my template.

First off, (why does it seem that I'm saying this so much lately?) don't angle the P3 & P4 sticks in.  All original games had them mounted the way you do now.  You want the stick movement to match what the on-screen character is doing.  Up = up.

Have you bought your controls yet?  Are you dead set on the Happs sticks and a Wico 4-way?  Are Ultimarc T-Stiks 8/4-ways not an option for you?  I grew up in the 80's playing with leaf sticks and honestly have no complaints with the T-Stiks.  I guess it's more of a cost/aesthetics thing though, as you're gonna end up with some dead space anyways with this layout.  It's not like you really don't have the room for the 4-way.  

Unlike JAMMA's opinion, I don't think that your P3 & P4 are too close to P1 & P2.  Might be nice to spread them out a little more if you can, but they don't seem unbearably tight.  Have you mocked this up as a full sized template yet?   Your top panel is gonna be shaped like the box?  

I do think that your P1 & 2 buttons are a little close to their respective sticks though.  

I'd probably bring the spinner down next to the trackball.  It's a pretty long reach down to the buttons there.   I suppose you could remap the games to use your mouse buttons though.  

You got the top fire for Tron?  If so, and you wanna stay more true to the original, you'll wanna get it over on the right of your spinner.  

Personally I'd use switchable 8/4-ways for P1 & P2, dump the 4-way, move the top fire over to the right, put the spinner where the top fire is now, and move both of 'em down about 1.5 - 2 inches.  Move the P1 buttons & P2 stick a little towards the center.  And maybe move the trackball a little to the left if you're one of the types who feels he's got to slam it as hard as he can in a game like Golden Tee.  (Myself, I learned long ago that extra physical effort doesn't always = extra force exerted.  The trackballs can only spin & register so fast.  I can get just as much velocity outta using two thumbs on a trackball as someone who's trying to break the machine.)

I don't think they're in my original template, but I put pinball buttons on the front angles of the CP box I just finished.  Sorta like a mirror of where your admin buttons are.  With a plunger on the straight front piece.   As for your admin buttons, if you're gonna have 'em on there (which I am a fan of), put them where they're quickly & easily reachable.  Maybe on a bezel panel between your CP and the monitor?

Keep at it.  Designing is half the fun (well, for me anyways.)  And seriously, do a full sized mockup out of foamboard, or cardboard, or whatever.   No matter how good it may look on the screen there's nothing that'll show you the truth better than hands on experience.

   

 

[jerschwab]

Nice design ... but that looks extremely uncomfortable  

Your button mashing hand is darn near on top your joystick.

That hurts just looking at it ... lol

Give your right hand some room  

As for player 3 & 4 ... heck there going to have to be right on top of players 1 & 2 to even access there controls .

Player 3 & 4's body and arm positons to access there controls correctly looks like a visit to the chiropractor will be in order after that gaming session.

Pinball buttons on a 45"+ control panel .... thats quite an arm stretch  .... hehe.

Ditch players 3 & 4 and spread your player 1 & 2 joysticks and buttons out ... and you got a killer 2 player control panel.

That's just my two cents  

Hi, thanks very much for checking out my control panel and offering feedback!

As for the joystick proximity to the buttons, I will be using the same spacing as on the Hotrod SE.  I like the feel of those controls, so I hope that will work on a 4-Player design as well!  On the design I posted, It looks like the buttons are touching because the outer ring of the button is actually bigger than the button itself.  From button to button, it is 1 1/2"... same as the template I've posted here.  I'm working on a new mockup and I'll post it very soon... please give me your thoughts!

[jerschwab]

Nice use of my template.

First off, (why does it seem that I'm saying this so much lately?) don't angle the P3 & P4 sticks in.  All original games had them mounted the way you do now.  You want the stick movement to match what the on-screen character is doing.  Up = up.

Have you bought your controls yet?  Are you dead set on the Happs sticks and a Wico 4-way?  Are Ultimarc T-Stiks 8/4-ways not an option for you?  I grew up in the 80's playing with leaf sticks and honestly have no complaints with the T-Stiks.  I guess it's more of a cost/aesthetics thing though, as you're gonna end up with some dead space anyways with this layout.  It's not like you really don't have the room for the 4-way.  

Unlike JAMMA's opinion, I don't think that your P3 & P4 are too close to P1 & P2.  Might be nice to spread them out a little more if you can, but they don't seem unbearably tight.  Have you mocked this up as a full sized template yet?   Your top panel is gonna be shaped like the box?  

I do think that your P1 & 2 buttons are a little close to their respective sticks though.  

I'd probably bring the spinner down next to the trackball.  It's a pretty long reach down to the buttons there.   I suppose you could remap the games to use your mouse buttons though.  

You got the top fire for Tron?  If so, and you wanna stay more true to the original, you'll wanna get it over on the right of your spinner.  

Personally I'd use switchable 8/4-ways for P1 & P2, dump the 4-way, move the top fire over to the right, put the spinner where the top fire is now, and move both of 'em down about 1.5 - 2 inches.  Move the P1 buttons & P2 stick a little towards the center.  And maybe move the trackball a little to the left if you're one of the types who feels he's got to slam it as hard as he can in a game like Golden Tee.  (Myself, I learned long ago that extra physical effort doesn't always = extra force exerted.  The trackballs can only spin & register so fast.  I can get just as much velocity outta using two thumbs on a trackball as someone who's trying to break the machine.)

I don't think they're in my original template, but I put pinball buttons on the front angles of the CP box I just finished.  Sorta like a mirror of where your admin buttons are.  With a plunger on the straight front piece.   As for your admin buttons, if you're gonna have 'em on there (which I am a fan of), put them where they're quickly & easily reachable.  Maybe on a bezel panel between your CP and the monitor?

Keep at it.  Designing is half the fun (well, for me anyways.)  And seriously, do a full sized mockup out of foamboard, or cardboard, or whatever.   No matter how good it may look on the screen there's nothing that'll show you the truth better than hands on experience.

Hi, thanks so much for making that template... I'd be lost without it (or have some seriously ugly looking CP that people would laugh at!).

I won't be angling the P3 & P4 joysticks in, I've read at least that much... and I agree with your point.

I've bought all the controls except for the Wico Leaf.  It's something I'll likely add later.  As for the Top Fire, I don't really need to put it on... if anything, it will be the last thing I install.

I have mocked it up as a full size template.  I also compared it to the original UAII layout and my P3 & P4 are a *little* but closer... I will do some playing around on the mockup to see if I like it.  I really can't decide where the spinner should go.  What buttons are typically used with a spinner?  Am I using the ones from the trackball?

Yes, the top panel is shaped like the box but bigger... 1 1/2" lip on the front and sides.

As for the top fire, I don't really know why I bought it... I thought it would be fun to play some games with the fire button on the top of the joystick (even like Galaga or games that never really had that setup).  But if I put the spinner in between the trackball and the 4-Way would that work?  My next post will be the revised diagram.

I don't know if I'm confortable with some of the things (such as the trackball) being off-center... should I worry about that?

[jerschwab]

Here is my new/revised drawing of my control panel!  As always, comments and criticism are more than welcome!!

Here are the changes I made to the last drawing posted:

• Added front pinball buttons
• Switched the 4-Way with the Top Fire joystick
• Spread out the P3 and P4 controls more
• Moved the spinner beside the trackball.

Also, I wanted to make a point to again thank everyone here for their help with my project!  This is an excellent forum and sure makes the experience that much more fun!

[DougHillman]

I like this one better than the last.  I'd still probably move the Wico, spinner & top-fire down another inch or so.  And maybe move the spinner over towards the top-fire a bit.

As for stuff being off center, it's not gonna be symmetrical anyways due to the fact that you've got some extra controls.  I wouldn't worry too much about it.  I'll never say that how it looks isn't important, but how it feels is foremost.

[GGKoul]

A couple of things.

How much room are you going to have from your trackball to the monitor?  If your going to play Golden Tee, you may not have enough room for the upswing.

Depending on what FE you use, you may not need to put a "TAB" or "Enter" button.  As MAMEWAH is mapped to use your player one buttons as TAB & Enter buttons

Also, I feel the single top fire joystick is useless where it is right now.  And the 4 way is in a bad spot.  As your going to have to reach over the player 1 joystick to get to it.


If I were you, I would do a mock-up of your panel with cardboard.  And test the positions of everything.

[DougHillman]

A couple of things.

How much room are you going to have from your trackball to the monitor?  If your going to play Golden Tee, you may not have enough room for the upswing.

jerschwab, just learn how to play GT without all that ridiculous slamming of the trackball.  I commented on this in my first reply.  

Also, I feel the single top fire joystick is useless where it is right now.  And the 4 way is in a bad spot.  As your going to have to reach over the player 1 joystick to get to it.


If I were you, I would do a mock-up of your panel with cardboard.  And test the positions of everything.

I think his top fire is fine (if maybe a little high).  What do you really use a top fire for other than Tron (or in the absence of rotary sticks) Ikari/Heavy Barrel?  Its placement near the spinner is ideal for these.

I also think that if the 4-way is moved down a bit, the natural arm angle will avoid the P1 stick.  I'm not sure how everyone else's body is built and how they stand at their cabinet, but my arms are actually separated by my shoulders in between.  I'm not reaching for the sticks from a straight 180 degrees.  My arms come in at an angle.

He's said that he has mocked it up already.  

[jerschwab]

A couple of things.

How much room are you going to have from your trackball to the monitor?  If your going to play Golden Tee, you may not have enough room for the upswing.

jerschwab, just learn how to play GT without all that ridiculous slamming of the trackball.  I commented on this in my first reply.  

Also, I feel the single top fire joystick is useless where it is right now.  And the 4 way is in a bad spot.  As your going to have to reach over the player 1 joystick to get to it.


If I were you, I would do a mock-up of your panel with cardboard.  And test the positions of everything.

I think his top fire is fine (if maybe a little high).  What do you really use a top fire for other than Tron (or in the absence of rotary sticks) Ikari/Heavy Barrel?  Its placement near the spinner is ideal for these.

I also think that if the 4-way is moved down a bit, the natural arm angle will avoid the P1 stick.  I'm not sure how everyone else's body is built and how they stand at their cabinet, but my arms are actually separated by my shoulders in between.  I'm not reaching for the sticks from a straight 180 degrees.  My arms come in at an angle.

He's said that he has mocked it up already.  

Okay, one last revision before I start the surgery!  Any comments??

[roybfr]

I just finished my 4p CP, layout it somewhat similar. One thing that I wish I would have done was buy 4/8 T-Stik + instead of the Happ Comps at least for P1 and P2. For 8 way the Happ comps have been fine but the switch ables would have saved some space and money in the long run.

I also wish that I would have not angled the 3 & 4, it looks odd by not angling them but by doing so you could use them in a dual stick 2p set up (IE Karate Champ, Smash TV). I also like the placement of the Esc, Enter, ect buttons

[jerschwab]

I just finished my 4p CP, layout it somewhat similar. One thing that I wish I would have done was buy 4/8 T-Stik + instead of the Happ Comps at least for P1 and P2. For 8 way the Happ comps have been fine but the switch ables would have saved some space and money in the long run.

I also wish that I would have not angled the 3 & 4, it looks odd by not angling them but by doing so you could use them in a dual stick 2p set up (IE Karate Champ, Smash TV). I also like the placement of the Esc, Enter, ect buttons

You are referring to angling the joysticks?  I never thought about using them for Karate Champ, but I guess that would work!  Now, when you are saying you wish you bought switchable joysticks, do you mean you would have preferred a 2-player control panel with switchable p1/p2 joys?

- Jeremy

P.S.  Have you played any games with 4 people yet??

[roybfr]

No I like the 4p, I just wish that instead of using Happ Comps on the P1 and P2 that I used switchable 4/8 in thier place. I was in the same position as you, had all my sticks ready to build, I figured I would have it done before the sticks got here. But building it and wiring it took longer then I thought with work ect. I could make the change now but the mounting holes are different on the T-Stiks compared to the Happs so I am going to stick with a single Omni Basic in the center for now.

We (wife, son and I) played gauntlet together which was fun. I am sure when it gets in the house and my sons friends come over it will get pleanty of 4 Player action with TMNT and Xmen.

[nipsmg]

I've got a 4 player frankenpanel too, and I experimented with a ton of 4p layouts before deciding.

I used one like yours, with the buttons angled and the sticks straight.

IMHO, It totally sucks to play on.

People whine about how if the sticks are angled, you won't be able to play the game correctly.  I disagree.  

Ever sit on a couch to the side of a TV and play a game console, like XBOX or PS2?  Trust me, a 2nd grader has enough hand-eye coordination to handle an angled viewpoint on a monitor.

In my opinion, you should either go straight w/ both, or angled with both.

--NipsMG

[unclet]

I attached a pciture of my 4-player control panel just so you would understand my comments.

1) I would recommend bringing out the front of your control panel a few inches so you could mount your pinball buttons flat instead of positioned at a 45 degree angle like you currently have them.    I have never seen a pinball game with 45 degree buttons,..... seems very hard to play.   Since Visual Pinball is very fun to play for a long time, you might want to reconsider moving them.  

** This will also give you more room to move your trackball a few inches lower so you dont hit the plexiglass when you (or your friends) play arcade golf games.  

** It will also allow you to move player1 and player2 joysticks lower which will give Player3/4 more elbow room as well.  

2) I would place a pause button on the control panel itself ratherthan behind the control panel.   It would be hard for player 3 to pause the game from that location ....

[jerschwab]

I attached a pciture of my 4-player control panel just so you would understand my comments.

1) I would recommend bringing out the front of your control panel a few inches so you could mount your pinball buttons flat instead of positioned at a 45 degree angle like you currently have them.    I have never seen a pinball game with 45 degree buttons,..... seems very hard to play.   Since Visual Pinball is very fun to play for a long time, you might want to reconsider moving them.  

** This will also give you more room to move your trackball a few inches lower so you dont hit the plexiglass when you (or your friends) play arcade golf games.  

** It will also allow you to move player1 and player2 joysticks lower which will give Player3/4 more elbow room as well.  

2) I would place a pause button on the control panel itself ratherthan behind the control panel.   It would be hard for player 3 to pause the game from that location ....

Hi, unfortunately the control panel blank was already constructed (based on the Ultimate Arcade II plans from www.mameroom.com).  So I am going to rethink where I put the admin buttons and the pinball buttons.  I'm not much of a pinball player, so I don't imagine I'll be playing much of that.

I did reposition the controls slightly to give more room, I tested it out and decided that it would be enough.  Hopefully it works out!

Anyhow,  here is a picture of the progress I made yesterday and today!  I haven't done any of the buttons around the base and also haven't installed the 4-way or the top fire.  I'll be thinking about those as well.  Tomorrow, I'll do the spinner and extra trackball buttons, then start on the wiring.

[roybfr]

Hey, not looking to bad, I like the yellow, it that paint or formica.

[jerschwab]

Hey, not looking to bad, I like the yellow, it that paint or formica.

That's formica... marigold yellow or something like that!  I had to special order it, but it's worth it!

- Jeremy

[GGKoul]

You may want to countersink you Joystick bases.  So you see some "Joystick Shaft" instead of seeing "just handles."

[jerschwab]

You may want to countersink you Joystick bases.  So you see some "Joystick Shaft" instead of seeing "just handles."

Ooopps...  forgot to say that the handles were just sitting in the holes.  I hadn't mounted them yet!  Will try to to that today if I can figure out how to do it properly without a plunge router (just a normal router).

- Jeremy

[GGKoul]

Another suggestion.

Your setup is similar to mine.  I use a Trackball to navigate in Windows.  And I added 3 buttons on the top of my Trackball.  1 2 3

1 -Left Mouse Click
2 - Right Mouse Click
3 - Mapped as a Pause

Also, have 1, 2 & 3 mapped to Ply1 - 1 2 3 Fire buttons.  Its good for Missile Command.

[DougHillman]

A plunge router isn't really necessary, it's just a luxury.  Hold your router at an angle with one edge of the base plate touching the work and just tip the blade into the work.  

D

[GGKoul]

I got one of these to counter sink my bases..

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_plung.html

[Bgnome]

you wont need to plunge the bit.  since you already have the joystick holes drilled out, just start from there and "trim" the rest out..

[jerschwab]

Here is the latest progress... what do you all think???

Most of the wiring is done, just need to connect the two extra joysticks to Player 1.  Also, I have the admin buttons on the back of the controller... but I may consider moving the coin buttons to the back and the admin buttons to the top panel. It's something I could always do later no problem.

Woohoo, I'm really getting there!

- Jeremy

[Zakk]

I love that color!

I'm glad to see you went with the real wico sticks.  Not to dispute Doug's opinion too much, but you can't even begin to compare the t-sticks to a real leaf switch.  In fact, I had to re-do an entire panel not too long ago since the buyer absolutely hated the t-sticks.  I agreed with him and ended up going back to the happ + wico.  Everyone knows I love Andy's products, but those t-sticks are a strange breed.  Nothing in the world like a nice wico that's worn in juuuuust right